What about music in worship?

[Muffled]

It's not that he banned music, but the use of instrumental music during worship. God has set a plan for his children on how he commands them to worship him.

I believe there is no ban on instruments except by deluded people.

 

[Muffled]

But God is very clear when he says that we are not to add or take away from his book... Revelation 22:18-20 If the Bible was a book of exclusion, it would be the longest book known to man. Their is only mention of using your voice to praise God in worship, no mention of instruments in the new testament.

I believe this is the null hypothesis. It can only be proven if you can show that it was absolutely necessary for it to be mentioned.

 

[Muffled]

I don't participate in the Mass anymore....
but I remember the Latin as sung by the priest

I recall a soothing feel....even though a lack of translation

I believe Paul had something to say about that If one speaks in tongues then no one understands what is being said so there is no edification. I do agree that there is a spiritual element that is good for worship.

 

[CohenDavidson]

I believe there is no ban on instruments except by deluded people.

Well what do you believe God would say about the issue? Considering his demands were to be met during the old law, I am assuming he would have us to take his just as serious about the demands he would have us to fulfill today. Here is something I found that many further allow you to understand where I am coming from. This comes from Ephesians 5:19 one of the verses were we see a command to sing.

The passage says, “peaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord.” Is this passage teaching us to “sing and play,” as is claimed by those who believe this passage authorizes singing with the accompaniment of a mechanical instrument of music? Yes, singing and playing is exactly what this passage is teaching. However, it clearly does not teach what those mechanical-instruments-of-music folks say it does. The word in the Greek that is translated “making melody” here is psallo, and it means, according to Thayer’s New Testament Greek Lexicon, “1) to pluck off, pull out; 2) to cause to vibrate by touching, to twang; 2a) to touch or strike the chord, to twang the strings of a musical instrument so that they gently vibrate; 2b) to play on a stringed instrument, to play, the harp, etc.; 2c) to sing to the music of the harp; 2d) in the NT to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song.” Thus, there can be no doubt that in this passage we are being instructed to both sing and play. But once again, there is nothing in this passage that authorizes the playing of a mechanical instrument of music in accompaniment of our singing. Why? Because we are told precisely what instrument we are to psallo, play, and make melody on—and this is the instrument of our heart. Thus, in following the instructions of this passage, we “pluck the strings” (psallo) of our hearts. Thus, by a direct statement/command, we are instructed to sing and make melody in our hearts. We are also told what to sing (psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs), and to whom and with whom we are to sing them (to one another).

Hope this helped!

 

[CohenDavidson]

No offense intended (I actually enjoy this type of discussion), but that really isn't a good comparison. Noah was specifically told what wood to use on the ark. God never said not to use instruments in worship. Very big difference.

It is the same. God told us to use our voices and nothing else to worship him. Just as God told Noah how to build the ark, God tells us how to worship him. Just because he does not exclude something, doesn't mean we have the authority to include it. Just as Noah was told to use a specific type of wood, we are told the specifics of how to worship. Just as Noah followed every step God commanded, we are to follow every step we have been commanded. Let me see if this will help you see what I am trying to say. We see no place of the inclusion of instruments in worship, however we do see the inclusion of our voices when we are to worship. One verse we see is Ephesians 5:19. This is not me, but an article I found that explained the matter better than I believe I am able to, however this is why I take this stance on this subject

The passage says, “peaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord.” Is this passage teaching us to “sing and play,” as is claimed by those who believe this passage authorizes singing with the accompaniment of a mechanical instrument of music? Yes, singing and playing is exactly what this passage is teaching. However, it clearly does not teach what those mechanical-instruments-of-music folks say it does. The word in the Greek that is translated “making melody” here is psallo, and it means, according to Thayer’s New Testament Greek Lexicon, “1) to pluck off, pull out; 2) to cause to vibrate by touching, to twang; 2a) to touch or strike the chord, to twang the strings of a musical instrument so that they gently vibrate; 2b) to play on a stringed instrument, to play, the harp, etc.; 2c) to sing to the music of the harp; 2d) in the NT to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song.” Thus, there can be no doubt that in this passage we are being instructed to both sing and play. But once again, there is nothing in this passage that authorizes the playing of a mechanical instrument of music in accompaniment of our singing. Why? Because we are told precisely what instrument we are to psallo, play, and make melody on—and this is the instrument of our heart. Thus, in following the instructions of this passage, we “pluck the strings” (psallo) of our hearts. Thus, by a direct statement/command, we are instructed to sing and make melody in our hearts. We are also told what to sing (psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs), and to whom and with whom we are to sing them (to one another).

Hope this helped a little!

 

[CohenDavidson]

I'm very aware of Church of Christ teaching regarding this. However this is not unique to your group. Many denominations under the banner of Christianity believe that they are the true church and therefore not a denomination. I grew up in one of those myself. I had a very interesting, although traumatic upbringing regarding religion.

I am sorry to hear this. May I ask what you went to? It really upsets me that many seek to gain off of the creation of a "church". Many religions are established with the idea of taking advantage of others. The early church was the example we are to follow when establishing congregations. They were in the business of saving souls and helping people physical and doing all they could to help others get to heaven. I am aware of this idea of groups taking the identity of the early church, the Catholic Church believes to be the early church, however when you look at their doctrines and see that they do not align with the Bible, you can clearly see that this is not the case. Just because one may claim to be non denominational doe not mean they follow the doctrines and commandments laid out in the Bible.

 

[CohenDavidson]

I believe since there is nothing in the NT to nullify the OT I believe the OT stands as correct.

I believe the Rev verse does not apply.

The law of Moses was nailed to the cross. Colossians 2:14
When Jesus died, the new law was put into effect. Hebrews 9:15-17

 

[CohenDavidson]

I am simply takin gth Bible for what it

We have been told throughout the Bible not to worship anyone or anything but God.

But it never excludes the devil... You see where I'm getting at? The Bible says the sing and only singing is included, just as only worshiping God is included.

 

[CohenDavidson]

yes, like we shouldn't be using computers!!

We are speaking of matters of worship. These are matters mentioned and addressed in the Bible.

 

[CohenDavidson]

Well i would say that the chanting of Holy texts should be sufficient, but that instrumental music can be used as a guidance as to what notes to hit.
Furthermore, music is creation, the Lord created us in His image, we were made to create.
Also, music in worship unites people, reminds us of the Lord and praises, it is positive.
Good, like the Lord.

Music is good, but not in worship. God did not command for us to use instruments in worship.

 

[CohenDavidson]

That particular movement to worshiping on "the Lord's Day" (Sunday) did not occur until around the beginning of the 2nd century of the Church, and it probably was not universal even then at first since the diasporah made any centralized organizing quite difficult. The "agape meal" was done on Sunday but the Eucharist doesn't appear to have been included in that day but on Shabbat.

The Bible speaks of the early church worshiping on the first day of the week. When the Bible speaks of the Lord's supper, it does not refer to a meal. Paul warns those who eat the Lord's supper as just another meal 1 Corinthians 11:26-29;34. It was mean to be an act of worship.

 

[CohenDavidson]

Have you noticed you mostly quote Paul?

Do you not believe in the inspiration of the Bible? I think we've had this discussion. You don't seem to believe in the Bible... If your intentions are to provoke argument, I will happily continue to discuss with others. I am not here to answer to those who are not willing to listen.

Protestants can in no way ever claim to be part of the early church.

No they cant, but you can see how many condemned the use of instruments in the worship assembly. By the way, I am not a protestant.

What is a Psalm?

referring to Ephesians 5:19, maybe this will help you understand

The passage says, “peaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord.” Is this passage teaching us to “sing and play,” as is claimed by those who believe this passage authorizes singing with the accompaniment of a mechanical instrument of music? Yes, singing and playing is exactly what this passage is teaching. However, it clearly does not teach what those mechanical-instruments-of-music folks say it does. The word in the Greek that is translated “making melody” here is psallo, and it means, according to Thayer’s New Testament Greek Lexicon, “1) to pluck off, pull out; 2) to cause to vibrate by touching, to twang; 2a) to touch or strike the chord, to twang the strings of a musical instrument so that they gently vibrate; 2b) to play on a stringed instrument, to play, the harp, etc.; 2c) to sing to the music of the harp; 2d) in the NT to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song.” Thus, there can be no doubt that in this passage we are being instructed to both sing and play. But once again, there is nothing in this passage that authorizes the playing of a mechanical instrument of music in accompaniment of our singing. Why? Because we are told precisely what instrument we are to psallo, play, and make melody on—and this is the instrument of our heart. Thus, in following the instructions of this passage, we “pluck the strings” (psallo) of our hearts. Thus, by a direct statement/command, we are instructed to sing and make melody in our hearts. We are also told what to sing (psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs), and to whom and with whom we are to sing them (to one another).

That's why He killed Jesus for breaking the Sabbath, right? No? He didn't?

With all due respect.. Could you maybe reply in one full thought? Its quite harder than it needs to be when you do this. As for going to church... technically I do not go to church. The Bible speaks as one being added to the church Acts 2:47, but each member meets at a building for worship, or Bible study. When did Jesus break the Sabbath? The Passover was part of the law of Moses. We are no longer under he law of Moses Colossians 2:14. I am not replying to your other statements due to them being irrelevant and skewed assertions with no evidence or backing...

 

[David1967]

It is the same. God told us to use our voices and nothing else to worship him. Just as God told Noah how to build the ark, God tells us how to worship him. Just because he does not exclude something, doesn't mean we have the authority to include it. Just as Noah was told to use a specific type of wood, we are told the specifics of how to worship. Just as Noah followed every step God commanded, we are to follow every step we have been commanded. Let me see if this will help you see what I am trying to say. We see no place of the inclusion of instruments in worship, however we do see the inclusion of our voices when we are to worship. One verse we see is Ephesians 5:19. This is not me, but an article I found that explained the matter better than I believe I am able to, however this is why I take this stance on this subject

The passage says, “peaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord.” Is this passage teaching us to “sing and play,” as is claimed by those who believe this passage authorizes singing with the accompaniment of a mechanical instrument of music? Yes, singing and playing is exactly what this passage is teaching. However, it clearly does not teach what those mechanical-instruments-of-music folks say it does. The word in the Greek that is translated “making melody” here is psallo, and it means, according to Thayer’s New Testament Greek Lexicon, “1) to pluck off, pull out; 2) to cause to vibrate by touching, to twang; 2a) to touch or strike the chord, to twang the strings of a musical instrument so that they gently vibrate; 2b) to play on a stringed instrument, to play, the harp, etc.; 2c) to sing to the music of the harp; 2d) in the NT to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song.” Thus, there can be no doubt that in this passage we are being instructed to both sing and play. But once again, there is nothing in this passage that authorizes the playing of a mechanical instrument of music in accompaniment of our singing. Why? Because we are told precisely what instrument we are to psallo, play, and make melody on—and this is the instrument of our heart. Thus, in following the instructions of this passage, we “pluck the strings” (psallo) of our hearts. Thus, by a direct statement/command, we are instructed to sing and make melody in our hearts. We are also told what to sing (psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs), and to whom and with whom we are to sing them (to one another).

Hope this helped a little!

I appreciate your willingness and zeal in defending your particular tradition. I respect that. But I do still disagree. I prefer what I believe regarding Christianity to be based on what is said, not fill in the blanks of what is not. With all due respect of course.

 

[David1967]

I am sorry to hear this. May I ask what you went to? It really upsets me that many seek to gain off of the creation of a "church". Many religions are established with the idea of taking advantage of others. The early church was the example we are to follow when establishing congregations. They were in the business of saving souls and helping people physical and doing all they could to help others get to heaven. I am aware of this idea of groups taking the identity of the early church, the Catholic Church believes to be the early church, however when you look at their doctrines and see that they do not align with the Bible, you can clearly see that this is not the case. Just because one may claim to be non denominational doe not mean they follow the doctrines and commandments laid out in the Bible.

I grew up in a Baptist church. Missionary Baptist to be specific. Very fundamentalist as the Church of Christ is as well. The only positive in the Baptist church I grew up in is at least they didn't teach that they were the only ones going to heaven. But outside that, those revival preachers needed medication for their fits. Silly to me now. Very traumatic to a child with a vivid imagination like I was.

 

[metis]

I am simply takin gth Bible for what it

But it never excludes the devil... You see where I'm getting at? The Bible says the sing and only singing is included, just as only worshiping God is included.

Not true, as the Bible mentions musical instruments many times. Maybe google it.

There's simply nothing intrinsically evil about musical instruments.

 

[metis]

The Bible speaks of the early church worshiping on the first day of the week.

No such reference is made in the N.T. If you think otherwise, please quote where and with its citation.

However, it is entirely possible, and I think likely, that some congregations may have done so, at least in the latter part of the 1st century. However, there's no such recording of such until we get to the Didache.

When the Bible speaks of the Lord's supper, it does not refer to a meal. Paul warns those who eat the Lord's supper as just another meal 1 Corinthians 11:26-29;34. It was mean to be an act of worship.

There indeed is a difference between "the Lord's Supper" and "the Agape Meal". The latter was held on Sunday, but it is uncertain exactly when these congregations moved their main prayer services from Shabbat to Sunday. Since the church wasn't that well organized in the latter half of the 1st century, chances are high that the movement may have been sporadic at first.