What are Americans?

[methylatedghosts]

I know of two kinds of Americans. (aside from the internet ones). Tourists and expats. Tourists are then divided into two further groups. Cruise shippers and drivers. Expat Americans are great. Friendly, pretty easy to get along with, and buy you drinks. Tourists are, on the wholejust as great, only with a higher proportion of exceptions. Cruise ship Americans are middle aged, overweight, demanding, and expect everything to be perfect, and watch out if it ain't! Drivers seem to have a permanent road rage, and would ideally like to park right on top of the entrance to where they want to go.

Of course, those bad sorts are in the minority. The last group are the Americans that stay in America, and I never get to see them in real life. Occasionally I find them on the internet though.

 

[ignition]

Most of the Americans who possess such traits are your fellow religious conservatives. Faith wise, you have more in common with most Americans than you do with most of your countrymen.

Haha you might have a point there. But seriously we're not like Americans because we're more reserved. We're not outspoken about our faith in public and we certainly don't shove it down other people's throat. We are not secular as US which is in my opinion a good thing. The religious right in America are off the chart extreme. It's just not acceptable really, and I'm speaking as a conservative. Our conservatism differs from America's significantly, for example mayor bloomberg supports conservative party here but Obama there.

 

[LuisDantas]

Calm down, son.

Oh, I'm quite calm. Just surprised by the complaints.

 

[LuisDantas]

China has never cared much about things outside of what it "historically" views as China and I cannot understand why anyone would care about what goes on in another country beyond its boarders.

It is natural, necessary and commendable to disregard artificial notions such as national borders. It has always been and will always be so.

It is just not an excuse for predatory imperialism - which, incidentally, China suffered from both the Japanese and the British at different times.

 

[Wu Wei]

It is natural, necessary and commendable to disregard artificial notions such as national borders. It has always been and will always be so.

It is just not an excuse for predatory imperialism - which, incidentally, China suffered from both the Japanese and the British at different times.

But China does not disregard the notion of national boundaries, they are actually quiet important to China. Actually America seems to put considerably less importance on national borders than China does

And yes I know a lot about the history of China and the history around the Opium wars and boxer rebellion as well as WW II. China has bee invaded and ruled by many that were not considered Chinese throughout its history, Moguls and Manchurians being only two of those.

And as for the predatory imperialism that you are speaking of, the British and the Japanese were not alone they had help from Russia, France, United States, Germany, Italy and Austria-Hungary

 

[Sunstone]

An Englishman who immigrated to the US and became a citizen once said that he believed the single most defining characteristic of Americans was the freedom and ease with which they were always inventing and re-inventing themselves. He mentioned his belief that other peoples were much less willing to forget the past, to refuse to be defined by it, and to think of themselves as free to be anything they wanted to be.

Do you think he might have been onto something? Why or why not?

 

[Alceste]

Sums it up:

 

[Sunstone]

It's my belief that, traditionally, the way the United States has treated other nations has been checked and moderated by its tendency to obey international law. It's never been perfect in that regard, but I'm under the impression that it once had a greater respect for international law than it does today.

If you think of international laws as both safeguarding the interests of nations and as compromises between each nation's interests, then I think you can imagine what a world without international laws would be like.

Having said that, I would suggest that the Chinese concept of law is considerably different than the Western concept in general, and the American concept in particular. Thus, I would not be surprised if, when the Chinese become the predominate power in the world, legal relationships of one nation to another undergo a radical and fundamental change. Among other things, I would expect to see a reduction in the importance to nations of international law.

 

[Father Heathen]

Sums it up:

Just like this "sums up" Canada?

 

[Father Heathen]

An Englishman who immigrated to the US and became a citizen once said that he believed the single most defining characteristic of Americans was the freedom and ease with which they were always inventing and re-inventing themselves. He mentioned his belief that other peoples were much less willing to forget the past, to refuse to be defined by it, and to think of themselves as free to be anything they wanted to be.

Do you think he might have been onto something? Why or why not?

American society, despite it's rough edges, does seem more innovative, diverse, fluid and adaptable, whereas other societies do seem to be a bit more homogeneous and stagnant.

 

[Riverwolf]

American society, despite it's rough edges, does seem more innovative, diverse, fluid and adaptable, whereas other societies do seem to be a bit more homogeneous and stagnant.

I wouldn't call a lot of them "stagnant", actually. Japan is certainly anything but.

Homogeneous, though, I'd accept. A lack of homogeneity, though, is just a natural result of historically being the world's melting pot.

I'd say your description of fluidity and adaptability definitely applies to coastal/big city Americans. But once you move more inland or into more rural America (especially in the South), it seems those qualities become much more uncommon.

 

[ignition]

I wouldn't call a lot of them "stagnant", actually. Japan is certainly anything but.

Homogeneous, though, I'd accept. A lack of homogeneity, though, is just a natural result of historically being the world's melting pot.

I'd say your description of fluidity and adaptability definitely applies to coastal/big city Americans. But once you move more inland or into more rural America (especially in the South), it seems those qualities become much more uncommon.

Yes. Japan is a racist country and countries that are highly homogeneous also tend to be more racist as a people though not all the time.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes. Japan is a racist country and countries that are highly homogeneous also tend to be more racist as a people though not all the time.

Much of the time, it's not as intentional as it is in Japan, though.

But though it's a racist country, it's also a bit of a miraculous country. In such a small portion of time, it went from war-torn butt-crack of the world to the most technologically advanced country in the world.

And speaking from experience, the people of Japan are awesome. At least the people I met were awesome.

 

[ignition]

Much of the time, it's not as intentional as it is in Japan, though.

But though it's a racist country, it's also a bit of a miraculous country. In such a small portion of time, it went from war-torn butt-crack of the world to the most technologically advanced country in the world.

And speaking from experience, the people of Japan are awesome. At least the people I met were awesome.

Oh c'mon. The only reason why Japan is still sitting on its **** is because the genocidal maniacs who ran the country were not punished for their sins in WW2, the same people who are in charge now were in charge then, they are evil sympathisers of a murderous campaign that destroyed millions of lives. They are unrepentant imbeciles. I truly think China would wipe them out as revenge for what they did were it not for the fact the US has been guarding them since the end of WW2. You want a miraculous country? Look at Germany. A country literally divided into 4 slices like a pizza and still rose respectably. As for the Japanese, well, they don't deserve any sympathy or respect until they get rid of their racist and vile figureheads. I like the Chinese much better.

 

[LuisDantas]

But China does not disregard the notion of national boundaries, they are actually quiet important to China. Actually America seems to put considerably less importance on national borders than China does

Well, sure. But that was not what I meant.

Governments should of course care about frontiers. They lead armies, after all.

People, however, should not take frontiers very seriously. That way lies militarism and xenophoby.

 

[LuisDantas]

An Englishman who immigrated to the US and became a citizen once said that he believed the single most defining characteristic of Americans was the freedom and ease with which they were always inventing and re-inventing themselves. He mentioned his belief that other peoples were much less willing to forget the past, to refuse to be defined by it, and to think of themselves as free to be anything they wanted to be.

Do you think he might have been onto something? Why or why not?

There is something to it, but perhaps not so much right now as there was once.

 

[LuisDantas]

It's my belief that, traditionally, the way the United States has treated other nations has been checked and moderated by its tendency to obey international law. It's never been perfect in that regard, but I'm under the impression that it once had a greater respect for international law than it does today.

The world lost a lot in that respect since 1980. Jimmy Carter had a lot of respect for the UNO and international law. Reagan had considerably less, and by the time GWB invaded Iraq in defiance of the UNO (and under false pretext, no less) it was basically over.

Of course, it is too gross an oversimplification to blame it all on Reagan and his successors, tempting as that is. The truth of the matter is that American public opinion failed to repudiate those cowboy antics, and that the UNO relies on American acceptance far too much for its own (and the world's) good.

My current impression is that the American people has simply failed to keep a very good standard of caring about international matters in the last 30-35 years, and the world suffered for it. Nationalism and xenophoby have grown worldwide in the last 40 years or so, largely because America failed to set a good example.

Not that I know that it was reasonable to expect such an example, mind you; while necessary, it is a very difficult bill to fulfill. It demands a lot of social and political maturity, and it is quite possible that we globally are simply not up to it yet. Or will never be, alas.

If you think of international laws as both safeguarding the interests of nations and as compromises between each nation's interests, then I think you can imagine what a world without international laws would be like.

It seems to me that in these days of drone wars and growing xenophoby and militarism we have less to imagine than we used to.

Having said that, I would suggest that the Chinese concept of law is considerably different than the Western concept in general, and the American concept in particular.

Probably. I know very little about China, but concepts of law are unavoidably very arbitrary in the first place.

I actually see that as a good opportunity. Questioning concepts of law should always be a high priority, for any society.

Thus, I would not be surprised if, when the Chinese become the predominate power in the world, legal relationships of one nation to another undergo a radical and fundamental change. Among other things, I would expect to see a reduction in the importance to nations of international law.

That may very well be. Or we might see a raise instead. No idea really.

 

[Riverwolf]

Oh c'mon. The only reason why Japan is still sitting on its **** is because the genocidal maniacs who ran the country were not punished for their sins in WW2, the same people who are in charge now were in charge then, they are evil sympathisers of a murderous campaign that destroyed millions of lives. They are unrepentant imbeciles. I truly think China would wipe them out as revenge for what they did were it not for the fact the US has been guarding them since the end of WW2. You want a miraculous country? Look at Germany. A country literally divided into 4 slices like a pizza and still rose respectably. As for the Japanese, well, they don't deserve any sympathy or respect until they get rid of their racist and vile figureheads. I like the Chinese much better.

Punish the people for the sins of the government, huh?

People =/= government. I couldn't care less about the Japanese government (I don't even really know exactly what kind of government it is, except that it's some kind of constitutional monarchy). I love the Japanese people, and those people will remain as they are, as they've always been, once the current evil people in the government are dead and gone. For the moment, the biggest problem I've noticed among the Japanese people is their attitude towards women, which is less than admirable to put it nicely, but having faults doesn't mean they should be outright demonized. After all, the Chinese people (in other words, the people who live in the bootleg/piracy center of the world) aren't much better in that department as I understand, but I've got no other problems with them, and Japan is definitely nowhere near as bad as a lot of other countries in the sexism department.

 

[Aquitaine]

Awful manners, general ignorance, lack of respect, atrocious accents and sheep-like behaviour.

What an ill-mannered, disrespectful, ignorant generalisation.
Can't say it was made with with an atrocious accent though!

 

[Caladan]

I have a certain amount of experience with Americans. I also have family in California and Miami. In general the Americans I got to hang out with were regular, intelligent and sociable people.
For example I traveled with two Americans from Paris to Normandy and we did a tour of one of D-Day beaches and visited the allies cemetery together. I also traveled Edinburgh with some very cute American girls.
People like to say that Americans are ignorant, especially ignorant of the outside world. While unfortunately that is true to a certain extent, I also found other supposedly people from cultured places guilty of the same. The average Americans I hanged around with were smart and pretty easy going.
The bottom line is that each of us needs be a judge of character and decide on who is worth spending our time with, so spend time with cool people and avoid jerks no matter the nationality or culture.

In short, I've served with a few Americans in the army, excavated with American students and volunteers, traveled with Americans, etc. And they come in all shapes and sizes. Some are clueless as to environments outside their safe zone, others are curious and receptive, some are spoiled and self centered, others are experienced. To say that I find a certain underline mentality or spirit to all Americans I've encountered through the years would not be simple. Some became my best friends, some got on my nerves. While I find that I share many values with them, there are also cultural differences, but I don't think there is any factor or taboo that sets Americans apart for ridicule.