What are girls taught today?

[bobhikes]

Boys historically have been taught to respect women, be supportive of their emotions and they have to control their strenght.

Girls historically were taught to be supportive of boys, look pretty and have babies.

In today's world Boy's are pretty much taught the same and women seem to still want the strong male and bad boys. So I am curious as to what the girls are being taught about the boys of today.

I won't be debating as I am interested in what is thought but feel free to debate.

 

[Sunstone]

Awhile back there was a study done of adolescent girls that, if I recall, compared diaries written in the 50s to diaries written in the 90s. This is a simplification of the findings, but 1950s girls wrote most extensively about improving their grades, their compassion for others, their craft skills, and such things. 1990s girls wrote most extensively about improving their looks, their attractiveness to boys, and such things.

 

[Kathryn]

Our society (media especially) seems to teach women to DISRESPECT men and simultaneously try to attract their attention via their looks.

Very sad, really. No wonder our teens are so jacked up so often.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sitcoms (eg, Murphy Brown, Big Bang Theory) teach that girls may sexually assault males who say something inappropriate regarding gender politics.
It also teaches them that they may do this with impunity, since males will not retaliate or report the crime.

 

[Quintessence]

Taught? I don't recall being taught anything. Taught to me implies pro-active and deliberate indoctrination into a set of ideas, like a class curriculum. There was no deliberateness to what I was "taught." Nobody sat down and said "hey class, this is what you should think about boys." I picked up things from the surrounding cultural murk.

 

[bobhikes]

Taught? I don't recall being taught anything. Taught to me implies pro-active and deliberate indoctrination into a set of ideas, like a class curriculum. There was no deliberateness to what I was "taught." Nobody sat down and said "hey class, this is what you should think about boys." I picked up things from the surrounding cultural murk.

Taught in this debate is not just by school but by parents and society in general.

As to my daughter to prepare her for a happy life in the future. How she can expect men to act. Does she need a man? What should be her goals. What does she need to know to be happy.

 

[Kathryn]

For starters, ALL children should be taught to appreciate and respect not only the similarities, but also the differences, between people, including the differences between males and females.

 

[Songbird]

Hmm, thinking about my upbringing, my friends, how I raise my kids, and how my peers raise their kids, my only conclusion is that there are a ton of messages, and a lot of mixed messages. You can be anything you want, you can't be everything, you should conform to a role, roles are obsolete, you can express yourself however you want, you should respect tradition, etc. Navigating those messages is unique to each person and her/his environs. I teach my sons and daughter the same messages (I think) - respect, compassion, honesty, hard work, and resilience. The rest is all small stuff. I don't care what messages or roles they embrace as long as they aren't being harmed and aren't harming others.

Just a note - my husband and I have argued about what gender-specific messages to send our kids. He strongly feels we should teach our boys to hold doors for girls and to speak politely in front of them. I strongly feel we should teach our boys AND girl to hold the door for EVERYONE, to make no difference for gender, and to use common sense in conversation with anyone.

 

[bobhikes]

Hmm, thinking about my upbringing, my friends, how I raise my kids, and how my peers raise their kids, my only conclusion is that there are a ton of messages, and a lot of mixed messages. You can be anything you want, you can't be everything, you should conform to a role, roles are obsolete, you can express yourself however you want, you should respect tradition, etc. Navigating those messages is unique to each person and her/his environs. I teach my sons and daughter the same messages (I think) - respect, compassion, honesty, hard work, and resilience. The rest is all small stuff. I don't care what messages or roles they embrace as long as they aren't being harmed and aren't harming others.

Just a note - my husband and I have argued about what gender-specific messages to send our kids. He strongly feels we should teach our boys to hold doors for girls and to speak politely in front of them. I strongly feel we should teach our boys AND girl to hold the door for EVERYONE, to make no difference for gender, and to use common sense in conversation with anyone.

This is what I am wondering though are girls getting a clear message from everyone.

I too feel there are gender differences and should be gender-specific messages because of the specific gender differences.

I just don't know how to define them without crossing a line, but I know they exist.

 

[Songbird]

This is what I am wondering though are girls getting a clear message from everyone.

I too feel there are gender differences and should be gender-specific messages because of the specific gender differences.

I just don't know how to define them without crossing a line, but I know they exist.

Good point...the biggest point I'm unsure of is when my approach meets different approaches (or expectations). I don't know if a man resents me holding a door for him, for example, or if he'd resent holding the door for me, or if he doesn't care. In all likelihood, he's as unsure as me and the whole manners thing is a nonissue. Even when I approach things from a neutral standpoint, I interact with people who have gendered stances about things like that, and I prefer getting through my day in peace than insisting on doing something in a particular way. There's just no need to determine who should hold the door when it comes to passing strangers. You just do whatever the situation calls for. I don't feel infantalized when a man wants to do courteous things for me because he feels it fits our roles - he wants to be respectful, and I interpret it as respect. But when people get to know me and understand my view, they also understand I don't want gender-specific favors. It makes me feel beholdened, as if a man may expect sex or sandwich-making in return for it. I make a point to know how to change my tire and maintain a car, not out of a "stick it to you" attitude, but because the independence feels reassuring.

I don't think complementary roles are bad at all - if people choose it. I won't be upset if my daughter wants to be traditionally feminine. I'm upset when people pressure others into being that because they feel it's best.

So, I don't agree with gender-specific messages, but I understand my kids need to be aware of the messages around them. From what they say, it looks like it doesn't matter what message I think I'm sending, anyway. Kids generally internalize what people actually *do*. So my lifestyle speaks a million times louder than any effort to convey a concept.

Thinking about my lifestyle - I cook dinner most evenings, ride a motorcycle, play in a band, work in computer consulting, and do yoga. I do whatever works for me, but if I were to analyze it from traditional definitions, I'm probably a blend of roles.

 

[Kathryn]

I want my six granddaughters to grow up and have a man in their lives like my husband. He holds doors open for women, he respects women and will get up and give his seat to a woman every time. He treats his mother with tenderness and respect, and he treats me that way as well.

He also enjoys his role as bread winner. When we met and got married, I had a career, and he supported my decision to pursue it. However, about a year ago he brought up the idea of me quitting my job so we could spend more time together. After mulling it over for months, I felt that the benefits for our entire family outweighed the negatives, and I quit my job. It was the best decision we have made in a long, long time.

I am grateful that I am married to someone who is willing to take a leadership role in so many areas in our relationship, because he understands that leadership is a SERVICE role. In return for his service, I respect him, admire him, and show him appreciation - which is genuine. I show this respect and appreciation, not only by my words, but by my actions - I keep a clean house, I cook good, healthy meals, I make sure the laundry is done and the house runs smoothly. When he is out of town, or unable to do so, I visit his parents and check on them regularly (they are elderly. This past week, I knew he had been working a lot of hours, and I mowed our 1 acre yard with a push mower by myself so that he wouldn't have to come home from out of state and immediately feel pressured to mow the yard. He would have been willing to - but I was willing to as well. He caught a break and I was glad to be able to give it to him!


He has given me one of the greatest gifts of my life - time with my family.

See - this whole thing goes both ways. He would not have been as willing to shoulder the financial burden alone, if I had not clearly demonstrated my respect and appreciation for him.

Sadly - many boys these days are not being raised to even consider this as an option - but why would they, when so many girls are not being raised to respect and appreciate their strengths?

Sad, really.

 

[Kathryn]

Good point...the biggest point I'm unsure of is when my approach meets different approaches (or expectations). I don't know if a man resents me holding a door for him, for example, or if he'd resent holding the door for me, or if he doesn't care. In all likelihood, he's as unsure as me and the whole manners thing is a nonissue. Even when I approach things from a neutral standpoint, I interact with people who have gendered stances about things like that, and I prefer getting through my day in peace than insisting on doing something in a particular way. There's just no need to determine who should hold the door when it comes to passing strangers. You just do whatever the situation calls for. I don't feel infantalized when a man wants to do courteous things for me because he feels it fits our roles - he wants to be respectful, and I interpret it as respect. But when people get to know me and understand my view, they also understand I don't want gender-specific favors. It makes me feel beholdened, as if a man may expect sex or sandwich-making in return for it. I make a point to know how to change my tire and maintain a car, not out of a "stick it to you" attitude, but because the independence feels reassuring.

I don't think complementary roles are bad at all - if people choose it. I won't be upset if my daughter wants to be traditionally feminine. I'm upset when people pressure others into being that because they feel it's best.

So, I don't agree with gender-specific messages, but I understand my kids need to be aware of the messages around them. From what they say, it looks like it doesn't matter what message I think I'm sending, anyway. Kids generally internalize what people actually *do*. So my lifestyle speaks a million times louder than any effort to convey a concept.

Thinking about my lifestyle - I cook dinner most evenings, ride a motorcycle, play in a band, work in computer consulting, and do yoga. I do whatever works for me, but if I were to analyze it from traditional definitions, I'm probably a blend of roles.

I understand where you're coming from.

I don't EXPECT a man to open doors for me or give up his seat on the bus if I'm standing. But I certainly do appreciate it and to me, it's a sign of respect.

I would also open the door for anyone carrying packages or who seemed to need help, or give up my seat on the bus to others - but probably not to men who seemed fit and able. This is because a man like my husband would not only not take me up on it, he would also probably be, not offended, but bemused.

Not that there are all that many men like my husband around anymore. A dying breed really - and that's a shame. Thank goodness my boys seem to have picked up on those traits of gallantry and gentleness toward women.

I raised my girls to be strong and independent, but to appreciate, rather than be offended, when a man displays traditional courtesy to them.

 

[Songbird]

I want my six granddaughters to grow up and have a man in their lives like my husband. He holds doors open for women, he respects women and will get up and give his seat to a woman every time. He treats his mother with tenderness and respect, and he treats me that way as well.

He also enjoys his role as bread winner. When we met and got married, I had a career, and he supported my decision to pursue it. However, about a year ago he brought up the idea of me quitting my job so we could spend more time together. After mulling it over for months, I felt that the benefits for our entire family outweighed the negatives, and I quit my job. It was the best decision we have made in a long, long time.

I am grateful that I am married to someone who is willing to take a leadership role in so many areas in our relationship, because he understands that leadership is a SERVICE role. In return for his service, I respect him, admire him, and show him appreciation - which is genuine. I show this respect and appreciation, not only by my words, but by my actions - I keep a clean house, I cook good, healthy meals, I make sure the laundry is done and the house runs smoothly. When he is out of town, or unable to do so, I visit his parents and check on them regularly (they are elderly. This past week, I knew he had been working a lot of hours, and I mowed our 1 acre yard with a push mower by myself so that he wouldn't have to come home from out of state and immediately feel pressured to mow the yard. He would have been willing to - but I was willing to as well. He caught a break and I was glad to be able to give it to him!


He has given me one of the greatest gifts of my life - time with my family.

See - this whole thing goes both ways. He would not have been as willing to shoulder the financial burden alone, if I had not clearly demonstrated my respect and appreciation for him.

Sadly - many boys these days are not being raised to even consider this as an option - but why would they, when so many girls are not being raised to respect and appreciate their strengths?

Sad, really.

I understand where you're coming from.

I don't EXPECT a man to open doors for me or give up his seat on the bus if I'm standing. But I certainly do appreciate it and to me, it's a sign of respect.

I would also open the door for anyone carrying packages or who seemed to need help, or give up my seat on the bus to others - but probably not to men who seemed fit and able. This is because a man like my husband would not only not take me up on it, he would also probably be, not offended, but bemused.

Not that there are all that many men like my husband around anymore. A dying breed really - and that's a shame. Thank goodness my boys seem to have picked up on those traits of gallantry and gentleness toward women.

I raised my girls to be strong and independent, but to appreciate, rather than be offended, when a man displays traditional courtesy to them.

I love that. You and your husband sound wonderful. Wish I could have you over for dinner.

 

[Erebus]

Women tend to be given a great number of different messages from different sources. This starts at a fairly young age and continues throughout their lives. I like to think the way they are taught about men goes something like this:


Slugs and snails and puppy dogs tails. Bogeys and snot and poo. Ken dolls, boybands Bieber fever boyfriends sex scandal toofat too easy toothinvomitingsexoffenderevilcheatrapistburnyourbrashusbandstillsinglegetmarriedhavekidspaedophilesmurderersgardeninggardeninggardening!

death

 

[Kathryn]

I love that. You and your husband sound wonderful. Wish I could have you over for dinner.

I can assure you it would be a blast - my husband is HILARIOUS! And I always bring really good wine.

And you, of course, would be terrific company!

 

[Mathematician]

In general I think children are confused about how common courtesy plays out nowadays. I'm hesitant to use the word respect because I believe respect is given to someone due to their actions, but I've been admonished for using the word "ladies" in one breath and then complimented for my manners by someone else.

I think everyone should hold the door open for someone. Full stop. Granted there are moments where this becomes an issue because the person behind you is so far away that holding the door may impede your appointment or make you look dumb, but I can't tell you how many times I've had an elderly woman let the door slam in my face. I think younger women are better at this.

I do think a lot of girls are never taught how to respect a man like boys are taught to respect women. There's a lot of female-specific encouragement, but outside of sports I don't see the same for boys. I have my theories this bred the "player" culture so prevalent in many outlets.

 

[Songbird]

In general I think children are confused about how common courtesy plays out nowadays. I'm hesitant to use the word respect because I believe respect is given to someone due to their actions, but I've been admonished for using the word "ladies" in one breath and then complimented for my manners by someone else.

I think everyone should hold the door open for someone. Full stop. Granted there are moments where this becomes an issue because the person behind you is so far away that holding the door may impede your appointment or make you look dumb, but I can't tell you how many times I've had an elderly woman let the door slam in my face. I think younger women are better at this.

I do think a lot of girls are never taught how to respect a man like boys are taught to respect women. There's a lot of female-specific encouragement, but outside of sports I don't see the same for boys. I have my theories this bred the "player" culture so prevalent in many outlets.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Not only are many girls not taught to respect men, they're taught to be wary of them.

 

[Songbird]

I can assure you it would be a blast - my husband is HILARIOUS! And I always bring really good wine.

And you, of course, would be terrific company!

Let's do it! I have a feeling it would be epic.

 

[Songbird]

Women tend to be given a great number of different messages from different sources. This starts at a fairly young age and continues throughout their lives. I like to think the way they are taught about men goes something like this:


Slugs and snails and puppy dogs tails. Bogeys and snot and poo. Ken dolls, boybands Bieber fever boyfriends sex scandal toofat too easy toothinvomitingsexoffenderevilcheatrapistburnyourbrashusbandstillsinglegetmarriedhavekidspaedophilesmurderersgardeninggardeninggardening!

death

I laughed.

No Bieber!

Edit: I'm using part of this as inspiration for a thread.

 

[sandandfoam]

I teach my girls that boys and girls are equal, that it's never acceptable for adults to be bossed about by others, that they can do anything they want in life and that anyone who judges them on the basis of their wearing skirts as well as trousers is an idiot.