psychoslice
Veteran Member
I believe while you have a need for religion you then will never find it, the need itself will keep you away from finding the truth.
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What are some religions that include all of these "requirements"? (Read on)
- Thread starter Grapefruit
- Start date
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
It may have never occurred to someone but why bother with religion. You should be asking yourself why you find a need to worship your ancestors and if so just worship them. I am by far one of the most militant atheists who purposefully makes discussion with religion uncomfortable with people
. . . BUT!
I cannot begin to answer for the life of me why people have this hang up on specific religions that bring no value to their life. Seriously, be a pagan or whatever you wish to be but do not delude yourself into thinking that you are going to appreciate this religious thought after studying it. You must intellectually and emotionally agree with something before you go and pursue it yet alone claim it.
A Muslim can always feel the power of Allah when living in an Islamic environment yet I know so many of them who stop being Muslim not to long after they live in a secular environment. Religion is about community and unity through social coercion. Can you walk outside and feel the power of Baldur amongst the people you meet? I doubt it.
Do what makes you content. Worship a god, call it whatever you want but do not be fixated on these religions that often time do not share your values or your cultural understanding.
. . . BUT!
I cannot begin to answer for the life of me why people have this hang up on specific religions that bring no value to their life. Seriously, be a pagan or whatever you wish to be but do not delude yourself into thinking that you are going to appreciate this religious thought after studying it. You must intellectually and emotionally agree with something before you go and pursue it yet alone claim it.
A Muslim can always feel the power of Allah when living in an Islamic environment yet I know so many of them who stop being Muslim not to long after they live in a secular environment. Religion is about community and unity through social coercion. Can you walk outside and feel the power of Baldur amongst the people you meet? I doubt it.
Do what makes you content. Worship a god, call it whatever you want but do not be fixated on these religions that often time do not share your values or your cultural understanding.
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Hinduism contains all these.So. I have been searching my entire life for "the religion". And by that, I mean the one that fits me most. I have tried so, so, so many religions. None of them fulfill my need for a higher power or spirituality. I just can't find it. It is so hard for me to. So, for the list. It is basically a list of things I urge for in this religion or philosophy.
Anything that would help would be great. Thank you for reading.
- Ancestor worship or ancestor veneration
- Meditation (similar to Buddhist meditation)
- Involves nature somehow
- Either multiple deities or none at all
*NOTE: The religions can just include these, not be only these.
Nature and multiple gods - Rigveda
Meditation - Yogasutra
One entity that is beyond God and identical with inner Self - Brahman of the Upanisads
Ancestor worship - See here Pitru Paksha - Wikipedia
Well, for starters, you don't have to follow some specific religion, you can just integrate these things into your personal life and spirituality.
If you want a religious tradition though, you can find all this in forms of Folk Hinduism, Folk Daoism, Folk Buddhism, Paganism and the indigenous religions of many areas of the world, like Shintoism, Shenism, African traditional religion etc. Meditation you can do regardless of your religion anyway.
If you want a religious tradition though, you can find all this in forms of Folk Hinduism, Folk Daoism, Folk Buddhism, Paganism and the indigenous religions of many areas of the world, like Shintoism, Shenism, African traditional religion etc. Meditation you can do regardless of your religion anyway.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
How do you know that their religion brings no value?
I do too, since he's a God of the Summer, not of the people.
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
Shintoism possible
But worships other than god is something I recommend avoiding
But worships other than god is something I recommend avoiding
As @A Greased Scotsman said, pretty much any for of Paganism is going to fit (and go beyond) those lists. Specific types you could look into include but are not limited to: various types of reconstructionism (where you work primarily with historical Pagan pantheons whether it is Nordic, Celtic, Greek, or something else entirely), Druidry, Shamanism, Wicca, Witchcraft, and of course world religions not necessarily considered "Pagan" like Hinduism, Shinto, Chinese folk religion (not all of which are particularly accessible).
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Information about Hinduism is available in this forum itself. It has all the things that you have mentioned and many more. It does not bind its people in shackles. We perhaps have the maximum number of Gods/Goddesses (some say 33 million), though I am an atheist Hindu. The choice of your deity and the method of worship (if you so desire) is entirely up to you. It has no problems with science or sex orientations. We are not aggressive proselytizers. Just have a look. Even if you don't feel interested, it is perfectly OK with us.
So. I have been searching my entire life for "the religion". And by that, I mean the one that fits me most. I have tried so, so, so many religions. None of them fulfill my need for a higher power or spirituality. I just can't find it. It is so hard for me to. So, for the list. It is basically a list of things I urge for in this religion or philosophy.
Anything that would help would be great. Thank you for reading.
- Ancestor worship or ancestor veneration
- Meditation (similar to Buddhist meditation)
- Involves nature somehow
- Either multiple deities or none at all
*NOTE: The religions can just include these, not be only these.
The question is not about searching for a religion that fits what we want..
But rather, the question is about searching for the true religion that is saying the truth..And when we find it, we have to change ourselves to fit it...
We are just small human beings who lives in this vast universe for a short time..We can change nothing...We have to fit in this universe..and the Universe does not have to fit us!
So. I have been searching my entire life for "the religion". And by that, I mean the one that fits me most. I have tried so, so, so many religions. None of them fulfill my need for a higher power or spirituality. I just can't find it. It is so hard for me to. So, for the list. It is basically a list of things I urge for in this religion or philosophy.
Anything that would help would be great. Thank you for reading.
- Ancestor worship or ancestor veneration
- Meditation (similar to Buddhist meditation)
- Involves nature somehow
- Either multiple deities or none at all
*NOTE: The religions can just include these, not be only these.
Hello Grapefruit,
Based upon your own specifications for a proposed religion that fits the bill, allow me to suggest Shugendo.
It is similar to but distinct from Shinto and Buddhism - more distinctively mystical, experiential and nature-focused:
Shugendō - Wikipedia
Shugendō (修験道?) is a highly syncretic religion that originated in Heian Japan in which enlightenment is equated with the attainment of oneness with the kami (神?), i.e., the spirits or phenomena that are worshiped in the Shinto religion. This perception of experiential "awakening" is obtained through the understanding of the relationship between humanity and nature, centered on an ascetic, mountain-dwelling practice. The focus or goal of Shugendō is the development of spiritual experience and power. Having backgrounds in mountain worship, Shugendō incorporated beliefs or philosophies from early Japanese religious beliefs, Taoism and esoteric Buddhism.[1] The 7th century ascetic and mystic En no Gyōja is often considered as having first organized Shugendō as a doctrine. Shugendō literally means "the path of training and testing" or "the way to spiritual power through discipline."...
Pilgrimages involving mountain treks are embarked upon by shugenja and, through the experience of each trek, as well as years of study, "rank" is earned within the sect. The rituals are kept secret from the neophyte shugenja and the world at large. This denju ensures the true faith of the neophytes and maintains the fear of the unknown as they embark upon the austere journey.
Pilgrimages involving mountain treks are embarked upon by shugenja and, through the experience of each trek, as well as years of study, "rank" is earned within the sect. The rituals are kept secret from the neophyte shugenja and the world at large. This denju ensures the true faith of the neophytes and maintains the fear of the unknown as they embark upon the austere journey.
As you can see, Shugendo is a religion with:
- Ancestor worship or ancestor veneration
- Meditation (similar to Buddhist meditation)
- Involves nature somehow
- Either multiple deities or none at all
Do you like forest and mountain retreats? Do you like the outdoors and enduring the elements (i.e. camping)? If so, check out Shugendo:
Shugendo - Japanese Mountain Ascetism, Shamanism, En no Gyoja, Enno Gyoja, Esoteric Buddhism, Tendai, Shingon
As a general rule, this sect stresses physical endurance as the path to enlightenment. Practitioners perform seclusion, fasting, meditation, magical spells, recite sutras, and engage in austere feats of endurance such as standing/sitting under cold mountain waterfalls or in snow. Another particular practice of Shugendō devotees is to set up stone or wood markers (Jp. = Hide 碑伝) along mountain trails, presumably to leave proof of their mystical journeys up the mountain. There are also precise procedures the practitioner must observe when entering into any sacred mountain space (Jp. = Nyūzan 入山 or Sanpai Tozan 参拝登山), with each stage consisting of a specific mudra 確認印 (Jp. = Kakunin-in or hand gesture with religious meaning), mantra 真言 (Jp. = Shingon or sacred verbal incantation) and waka 和歌 (classical Japanese poem)...
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As an addendum to the above Grapefruit, I also wouldn't dismiss Sufi Islam and my own Catholic/Orthodox Contemplative tradition out-of-hand either, simply because they are essentially monotheistic.
Despite being monotheistic, these religions practise de facto ancestor veneration by means of the "veneration of saints" or communion of saints, which involve 'cults' to specific canonized individuals who are viewed as heavenly intercessors. The ritual involved in Catholic saint veneration - statues, prayers, shrines, devotions, candles, offerings - is virtually indistinguishable from ancestor rites as practised by other religions.
Meditation and contemplation are hugely important to both of these traditions, as is nature - check out Franciscan and Carmelite spirituality. As as example, consider this sacred poem and commentary upon its stanzas written by a Carmelite mystic called Saint John of the Cross in his Spiritual Canticle:
Spiritual Canticle Of The Soul,Saint John Of The Cross
Despite being monotheistic, these religions practise de facto ancestor veneration by means of the "veneration of saints" or communion of saints, which involve 'cults' to specific canonized individuals who are viewed as heavenly intercessors. The ritual involved in Catholic saint veneration - statues, prayers, shrines, devotions, candles, offerings - is virtually indistinguishable from ancestor rites as practised by other religions.
Meditation and contemplation are hugely important to both of these traditions, as is nature - check out Franciscan and Carmelite spirituality. As as example, consider this sacred poem and commentary upon its stanzas written by a Carmelite mystic called Saint John of the Cross in his Spiritual Canticle:
Spiritual Canticle Of The Soul,Saint John Of The Cross
My Beloved is the mountains,
The solitary wooded valleys,
The strange islands,
The roaring torrents,
The whisper of the amorous gales;
The tranquil night
At the approaches of the dawn,
The silent music,
The murmuring solitude,
The supper which revives, and enkindles love.
The bride has entered
The pleasant and desirable garden,
And there reposes to her heart’s content;
Her neck reclining
On the sweet arms of the Beloved.
There I gave Him my breasts,
There He taught me the science full of sweetness.
And there I gave to Him
Myself without reserve;
There I promised to be His bride.
Let us rejoice, O my Beloved!
Let us go forth to see ourselves in Thy beauty,
To the mountain and the hill,
Where the pure water flows:
Let us enter into the heart of the thicket.
And let the vision and Thy beauty kill me,
Behold the malady
Of love is incurable
Except in Thy presence and before Thy face.
O crystal well!
Oh that on Thy silvered surface
Thou wouldest mirror forth at once
Those eyes desired
Which are outlined in my heart!
The inner cellar
Of my Beloved have I drunk; and when I went forth
Over all the plain
I knew nothing.
Commentary:
My Beloved is the mountains: Mountains are high fertile, extensive, beautiful, lovely, flowery, and odorous. These mountains my Beloved is to me.
The solitary wooded valleys: Solitary valleys are tranquil, pleasant, cooling, shady, abounding in sweet waters, and by the variety of trees growing in them, and by the melody of the birds that frequent them, enliven and delight the senses; their solitude and silence procure us a refreshing rest. These valleys my Beloved is to me.
In the inner cellar: The wine cellar is the highest degree of love to which the soul may attain in this life, and is therefore said to be the inner. Many souls reach and enter the first cellar, each according to the perfection of its love, but the last and inmost cellar is entered by few in this world, because therein is wrought the perfect union with God, the union of the spiritual marriage, of which the soul is now speaking.
What God communicates to the soul in this intimate union is utterly ineffable, beyond the reach of all possible words...In this state God and the soul are united, as the window is with the light, or coal with the fire, or the light of the stars with that of the sun...As a draught diffuses itself through all the members and veins of the body, so this communication of God diffuses itself substantially in the whole soul, or rather, the soul is transformed in God. In this transformation the soul drinks of God in its very substance and its spiritual powers....
Love has set the soul on fire and transmuted it into love, has annihilated it and destroyed it as to all that is not love....all the powers of the soul together, because of the union in the inner cellar, drink of the Beloved...
God Himself is here the suitor Who in the omnipotence of His unfathomable love absorbs the soul with greater violence and efficacy than a torrent of fire a single drop of the morning dew which resolves itself into air
There He taught me the science full of sweetness: This science is mystical theology, which is the secret science of God, and which spiritual men call contemplation. It is most full of sweetness because it is knowledge by love, love is the master of it, and it is love that renders it all so sweet. Inasmuch as this science and knowledge are communicated to the soul in that love with which God communicates Himself, it is sweet to the understanding, because knowledge belongs to it, and sweet to the will, because it comes by love which belongs to the will.
The solitary wooded valleys,
The strange islands,
The roaring torrents,
The whisper of the amorous gales;
The tranquil night
At the approaches of the dawn,
The silent music,
The murmuring solitude,
The supper which revives, and enkindles love.
The bride has entered
The pleasant and desirable garden,
And there reposes to her heart’s content;
Her neck reclining
On the sweet arms of the Beloved.
There I gave Him my breasts,
There He taught me the science full of sweetness.
And there I gave to Him
Myself without reserve;
There I promised to be His bride.
Let us rejoice, O my Beloved!
Let us go forth to see ourselves in Thy beauty,
To the mountain and the hill,
Where the pure water flows:
Let us enter into the heart of the thicket.
And let the vision and Thy beauty kill me,
Behold the malady
Of love is incurable
Except in Thy presence and before Thy face.
O crystal well!
Oh that on Thy silvered surface
Thou wouldest mirror forth at once
Those eyes desired
Which are outlined in my heart!
The inner cellar
Of my Beloved have I drunk; and when I went forth
Over all the plain
I knew nothing.
Commentary:
My Beloved is the mountains: Mountains are high fertile, extensive, beautiful, lovely, flowery, and odorous. These mountains my Beloved is to me.
The solitary wooded valleys: Solitary valleys are tranquil, pleasant, cooling, shady, abounding in sweet waters, and by the variety of trees growing in them, and by the melody of the birds that frequent them, enliven and delight the senses; their solitude and silence procure us a refreshing rest. These valleys my Beloved is to me.
In the inner cellar: The wine cellar is the highest degree of love to which the soul may attain in this life, and is therefore said to be the inner. Many souls reach and enter the first cellar, each according to the perfection of its love, but the last and inmost cellar is entered by few in this world, because therein is wrought the perfect union with God, the union of the spiritual marriage, of which the soul is now speaking.
What God communicates to the soul in this intimate union is utterly ineffable, beyond the reach of all possible words...In this state God and the soul are united, as the window is with the light, or coal with the fire, or the light of the stars with that of the sun...As a draught diffuses itself through all the members and veins of the body, so this communication of God diffuses itself substantially in the whole soul, or rather, the soul is transformed in God. In this transformation the soul drinks of God in its very substance and its spiritual powers....
Love has set the soul on fire and transmuted it into love, has annihilated it and destroyed it as to all that is not love....all the powers of the soul together, because of the union in the inner cellar, drink of the Beloved...
God Himself is here the suitor Who in the omnipotence of His unfathomable love absorbs the soul with greater violence and efficacy than a torrent of fire a single drop of the morning dew which resolves itself into air
There He taught me the science full of sweetness: This science is mystical theology, which is the secret science of God, and which spiritual men call contemplation. It is most full of sweetness because it is knowledge by love, love is the master of it, and it is love that renders it all so sweet. Inasmuch as this science and knowledge are communicated to the soul in that love with which God communicates Himself, it is sweet to the understanding, because knowledge belongs to it, and sweet to the will, because it comes by love which belongs to the will.
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Hinduism says the exact opposite of course....
Grapefruit
Member
Thanks.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
So you are saying that without Heathenry there would never be any such thing as polytheism? That without Hinduism there would never be any such connotation of reincarnation?
But that only shows your bias and your interests. If you asked me about most Hindu or Nordic deities I typically would not be able to answer you. So are you saying that every human has an innate understanding of European polytheism?
. . . I do not want to be the person asking you this but are you on drugs by any chance?
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
So you are saying that without Heathenry there would never be any such thing as polytheism? That without Hinduism there would never be any such connotation of reincarnation?
But that only shows your bias and your interests. If you asked me about most Hindu or Nordic deities I typically would not be able to answer you. So are you saying that every human has an innate understanding of European polytheism?
. . . I do not want to be the person asking you this but are you on drugs by any chance?
I'll be quite shocked if I'm alone in wondering how the hell you managed to infer any of this from what Ragin said.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
You are not alone, Scotsman.
You said that you cannot answer (I assume you mean "understand" as well) why people get hung up on religions that "bring no value to their life." My question to you, clearly, is how do you know a person's religion doesn't bring value to their lives?
You said that you cannot answer (I assume you mean "understand" as well) why people get hung up on religions that "bring no value to their life." My question to you, clearly, is how do you know a person's religion doesn't bring value to their lives?
Mmm, no. That show's Baldur's attribute in Norse Mythology. It also shows that you possibly don't know much about Baldur, based on what you said, and likely just picked a god at random to give an example of.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Just me being a sarcastic devil as always
. Personally I admit that I like taking jabs at people. It sort of annoys me when people can't do the same, I like being the receiver.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
I am referring to cases where people feel the need for cultural appropriation for religious comfort or feel the need to find the religion that confirms their biases. As I said before, you do not need a religion to provide you concepts like polytheism or reincarnation. If you believe int hose things then you just believe in them.
I do not mean it like that. I am referring to your bias towards Norse mythology. You obviously would know more about it because you have studied it more.
This does bring up something interesting though that is a bit off topic.
Why would you bother using such mythologies to validate your religious beliefs? For example if you do not believe that the myths are true then why engage yourself with them? If for ritualistic purposes then why not chose your own understanding of why you must engage in ritualism?
I show excessive ritualism in bathing, drinking tea, and even sex. I do not need to appeal to Islam, Chinese folk religion or Christianity to validate my rituals. I simply do them for my own mental sanity. I do not need to take from some 'ancient mystical past' in order to make my actions seem valid. I am completely comfortable stating that mathematics are the only thing I can call sacred or god like if not a god in its own right. I am influenced by Pythagoreanism no doubt and have spent my time studying the greatest philosophers in my education yet I would not deluded myself into thinking I am continuing Pythagorean thought.
I can say this for the simple reason that Pythagoras was superstitious about consumption of beans and as a vegan there is NO WAY IN HELL I AM GIVING UP BEANS! So obviously I could never submit my mind and body to Pythagorean life.
I strongly encourage people to be themselves and to always validate what they do with skepticism and individuality. Seeking community does not mean seeking exact duplicates of an ideology.
PRICELESS!
And yes I was being a spoiled rectum in that comment. You know I can't help myself.
. . . on a side note you are new apparently and may not be aware of my antics. So nevermind what I said!
IDK what your library resources are, but I read a bit of Shinto: The Kami Way and found it a helpful introduction. Maybe some of the board members can verify this as a good book or not?I'll snoop around on the interwebz for a bit. Do you recommend talking to Shinto practitioners here? Also, I wish I could find a Buddhist temple near me... unlikely though as I live 2 hours away from the nearest town (which is not even that big, its like 20 buildings lol). Anyways thank you so much!