What are the attributes of a worthy God?

[osgart]

And George Lucas, Bobby Henderson, Douglas Adams, ...

What's that make Disney?

 

[Heyo]

What's that make Disney?

Something like Johannes Gensfleisch, aka Gutenberg, a publisher.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

This favor of letting his exalted gems come down to this unworthy place beneath their dignity and guide us back to God while they suffer immensely witnessing our deeds outwardly and in the unseen being witnesses to the exact unseen state of our deeds, this is a great favor by God,

How can anyone say with a straight face that God loves us if He thinks so poorly of us? Maybe He should find some new friends if we are so below His dignity. Why should people put up with toxic Karens?

 

[Link]

How can anyone say with a straight face that God loves us if He thinks so poorly of us? Maybe He should find some new friends if we are so below His dignity. Why should people put up with toxic Karens?

By love I mean "cares" about us, if that's too strong of a word, feels mercy or feels sorry for us, but we are not worth the chosen ones and their time, in my view. God sends them out of his compassion and grace, and they suffer for our sake.

He through his grace of chosen ones has made easy the path of redemption, but we turn away still.

 

[Link]

Why should people put up with toxic Karens?

To embrace the judgment of God and his light witnessing us, is, in a way, to sacrifice oneself and suicide our identity. This is a hard task, in reality, this is the sacrifice of Ismail and Isaac by Abraham.

It's not easy, to give up our identity and become what God wants us to be, and to condemn who we are. In case of Ismail (a), he was of paradise, but still sacrificed who he was, while, we are of hell, and are more in need of sacrificing ourselves.

We have a choice, accept God's "toxic" condemnation and judgment and sacrifice who we chosen to be, or reject God because he won't accept us for what we chosen.

This is not an easy choice, but it's not difficult for humble hearts.

A new life lies ahead if we sacrifice.

"Your biggest sin is your own existence" - Rumi

 

[AlexanderG]

If anyone demands or expects worship, I think that would immediately disqualify them from being worthy of worship. A worthy being wouldn't care if it were worshipped, or would actively discourage such behavior.

If I'm coerced or encouraged to admire someone, how is it even meaningful when I do so, especially if I am also threatened with punishments if I don't? That's merely the abusive kind of relationship we see with malignant narcissists. "You shall have no one else before me. Do what I say or I'll have to hurt you, because I love you. You're worthless without my love, and you'd better love me back, or it'll be your fault that I'm hurting you again." Who would worship that? :/

 

[Trailblazer]

Which perhaps is a problem when so many just see a different version of God, and as to what they might project onto such, and probably was the main reason as to why I initially had suspicions about all religions - and looked elsewhere for answers.

My advice is for people to not look at what other people see but rather look from themselves and try to find the version that is correct, and then they will have found the One True God.

 

[Link]

If anyone demands or expects worship, I think that would immediately disqualify them from being worthy of worship. A worthy being wouldn't care if it were worshipped, or would actively discourage such behavior.

If I'm coerced or encouraged to admire someone, how is it even meaningful when I do so, especially if I am also threatened with punishments if I don't? That's merely the abusive kind of relationship we see with malignant narcissists. "You shall have no one else before me. Do what I say or I'll have to hurt you, because I love you. You're worthless without my love, and you'd better love me back, or it'll be your fault that I'm hurting you again." Who would worship that? :/

God doesn't need our worship and we can't give him sustenance. Rather it's a way of him giving us sustenance of an honorable kind and honoring us. But having himself connect to us, truly it is evil to turn away from him, and his chosen guides.

 

[Trailblazer]

New If anyone demands or expects worship, I think that would immediately disqualify them from being worthy of worship. A worthy being wouldn't care if it were worshipped, or would actively discourage such behavior.

God does not demand or expect worship. God gave humans free will so we are all free to choose to worship God or not.

God does enjoin us to worship Him but that is for our own benefit, not for God's benefit.
God does not need anything from humans since God is completely self-sufficient and self sustaining.

 

[Mock Turtle]

My advice is for people to not look at what other people see but rather look from themselves and try to find the version that is correct, and then they will have found the One True God.

Or not.

 

[AlexanderG]

God does not demand or expect worship. God gave humans free will so we are all free to choose to worship God or not.

God does enjoin us to worship Him but that is for our own benefit, not for God's benefit.
God does not need anything from humans since God is completely self-sufficient and self sustaining.

So if I told you to do something, and then told you that I'd torture you if you disobeyed me but that you were free to chose either option, you're saying I would not be making a demand in that case? That's news to the mafia, dictators, inquisitors, etc.

Would any court hold someone responsible for actions taken under threat of torture? Or consider it their choice?

If I insisted that my actions were for your benefit, because I was benevolently giving you a way to avoid being tortured, would that establish that I was perfectly loving? Or would that be grotesque gaslighting and horrifically immoral? What kind of person would then want to admire or revere me?

Edits: To be clear, I'm not trying to insult anyone. I'm trying to do an internal critique of the concept of worshipping an Abrahamic god or similar gods. I really don't understand the logic, the meaning, or the appeal of any explanation I've ever heard.

 

[osgart]

If anyone demands or expects worship, I think that would immediately disqualify them from being worthy of worship. A worthy being wouldn't care if it were worshipped, or would actively discourage such behavior.

If I'm coerced or encouraged to admire someone, how is it even meaningful when I do so, especially if I am also threatened with punishments if I don't? That's merely the abusive kind of relationship we see with malignant narcissists. "You shall have no one else before me. Do what I say or I'll have to hurt you, because I love you. You're worthless without my love, and you'd better love me back, or it'll be your fault that I'm hurting you again." Who would worship that? :/

This demand supposes that humans are evil and thus worthless. Evil people desire to harm God, and actually hate God when God only has the best intentions for them. So God is equal to everlasting peace and joy. Humans have made themselves enemies of God and have pitted themselves against God's ways, and thus against God Himself. So this God has perfect judgment of those who will never accept life everlasting, and those who God can show mercy to.

That's the pitch. So evil humans must forsake their very lives and everything that attaches their lives to evil, for this new life they can live by faith, and can still live on Earth denying all that evil brought them. The faith is the door to this new life as it goes. This faith is extended to all humans until God sees them repent, or they choose to be ever enemies.

It's said God has no joy or happiness in damnation, but is pleased to end that kind of life.

Me, as an atheist, I consider this story to be untrue, false, inadequate, and far fetched.

God's anger and wrath are directed towards those that have become ever enemies, but God's mercy and forbearance is toward those who have possibility to choose this new life. I'm not sure about the cut off point between pass/fail hope for this new life.

So like the OT is about God's judgment and forbearance, and favor based on criteria I just mentioned. To this God it is, or will be obvious to all that God is life, joy, and peace everlasting, and to die in full rejection is doom.

So, in a nutshell, nobody deserves life everlasting and God only favors those who choose the faith. The faithful are undeserving, and have unmerited favor forever. God then takes the new life and makes perfect the faithful souls over time, slowly, yet patiently. God's goal is perfect fellowship, friendship for the faithful.

That's the whole story as I learned it. I'm sure there are more finer points and details. That's the crux of the reasoning though.

 

[Link]

So if I told you to do something, and then told you that I'd torture you if you disobeyed me but that you were free to chose either option, you're saying I would not be making a demand in that case? That's news to the mafia, dictators, inquisitors, etc.

Would any court hold someone responsible for actions taken under threat of torture? Or consider it their choice?

If I insisted that my actions were for your benefit, because I was benevolently giving you a way to avoid being tortured, would that establish that I was perfectly loving? Or would that be grotesque gaslighting and horrifically immoral? What kind of person would then want to admire or revere me?

Edits: To be clear, I'm not trying to insult anyone. I'm trying to do an internal critique of the concept of worshipping an Abrahamic god or similar gods. I really don't understand the logic, the meaning, or the appeal of any explanation I've ever heard.

You are mixing things.

God as the Creator will exact retribution. We can't do that. We are not perfect judges nor have that right.

God as the Creator will reward good, forgive depending on prayers and repenting words, actions, sincerity, etc....

Then God whoever he is, should be worshiped.

The degree of evil consequences when we disobey God and go against his order, this can be debated.


Some traits we have common ground with God, some he has unique, and some we have but manifest him, but he can't do it himself. For example, courage, God being invulnerable, can't apply courage. Yet courage is one of the applications of his light, honor, and glory.

So there is somethings we can manifest from him, that he can't do through Lordship. And there is somethings he manifests through Lordship, we can't manifest through servanthood.

 

[Trailblazer]

So if I told you to do something, and then told you that I'd torture you if you disobeyed me but that you were free to chose either option, you're saying I would not be making a demand in that case? That's news to the mafia, dictators, inquisitors, etc.

Would any court hold someone responsible for actions taken under threat of torture? Or consider it their choice?

If I insisted that my actions were for your benefit, because I was benevolently giving you a way to avoid being tortured, would that establish that I was perfectly loving? Or would that be grotesque gaslighting and horrifically immoral? What kind of person would then want to admire or revere me?

Edits: To be clear, I'm not trying to insult anyone. I'm trying to do an internal critique of the concept of worshipping an Abrahamic god or similar gods. I really don't understand the logic, the meaning, or the appeal of any explanation I've ever heard.

Why do you believe that the Abrahamic God told us that He would torture you if you disobeyed?
Why do you believe that the Abrahamic God insisted that His actions were for our benefit, because He was benevolently giving you a way to avoid being tortured?

In other words, why do you believe that the Abrahamic God will torture us if we do not believe in and worship Him?

 

[syo]

What would make God worthy

Deism.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How can anyone say with a straight face that God loves us if He thinks so poorly of us?...............

First of all, in Scripture it is Satan who is the 'god' of this world of badness - 2 Corinthians 4:4
Sinner Satan who thinks so poorly of us that he challenged the man Job at Job 2:4-5.
And by way of extension we are included in that challenge.
Touch our 'flesh'.... (loose physical health) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved faithful to God, and so can we.
Who would send their son to die in place of another _________
God sent Jesus to Earth to undo the damage Satan and Adam brought upon humanity.
Without such un-selfish godly love there would be No hope for us.- Matthew 20:28
We are all invited to pray the invitation to God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Come and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations for us - Revelation 22:2
God thinks so highly of us that the time is coming when No one will say, " I am sick...." - Isaiah 33:24
Earth and its people will be happy and healthy as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
Even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth ever again - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So if I told you to do something, and then told you that I'd torture you if you disobeyed me but that you were free to chose either option, you're saying I would not be making a demand in that case? That's news to the mafia, dictators, inquisitors, etc.............

I find it is 'false clergy' who use the threat of torture to try to control the flock of God.
Just as there was No post-mortem torture for Adam, No double jeopardy for Adam there is none for anyone else.
Especially when the King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that put flames in hell/grave.
Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were: destroyed.
So, Gehenna is a fitting word for: destruction.
In Scripture, the wicked are Not tortured but the wicked are 'destroyed forever' - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35
Biblical hell (the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead til Resurrection Day) comes to a final end.
Jesus and the OT both teach ' sleep ' in death - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.
'Sleep' until Resurrection Day meaning Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth. - Acts 24:15

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

How can anyone say with a straight face that God loves us if He thinks so poorly of us? Maybe He should find some new friends if we are so below His dignity. Why should people put up with toxic Karens?

Apparently, the God of the Bible thinks of humanity so poorly that he purposely causes disasters and calamities throughout the world (Isaiah 45:7) that will inflict pain and suffering on people, which would explain why he willingly turns a blind eye to child abuse, sexual abuse, people killing each other, racial violence, and people dying from deadly diseases or viruses. Some Christians and other similar theists will fall back on the usual excuse of man's freewill, but IMO, that's an awfully feeble excuse to use in an attempt to justify God's atrocious behavior towards humanity. It's quite obvious that there are people in the world who are morally superior to the God of the Bible because they don't willingly turn a blind eye to someone being physically attacked and think, "I'm not going to intervene to save this person because I don't want to impede on their attacker's freewill." Unlike the God of the Bible, these people don't willingly allow someone else to get hurt because they don't want to infringe on "man's freewill" and they refuse to overlook other people's pain.

Isaiah 45:7

KJV: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Evil:
1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked, 2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful, 3. Characterized by or indicating misfortune; ominous.

NIV: "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

Disaster:
1. An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe; 2. A grave misfortune, and 3. A total failure.

ESV: "I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things."

Calamity: 1. An event that brings terrible loss, lasting distress, or severe affliction; a disaster, 2. Dire distress resulting from loss or tragedy; 3. Any great misfortune or cause of misery; in general, any event or disaster which produces extensive evils, as loss of crops, earthquakes, etc., but also applied to any misfortune which brings great distress on a person; misfortune; distress; adversity.

 

[blü 2]

What would make God worthy of admiration and praise?

The same as for real people, I'd say ─ his, her, their, ability to persuade people to treat others with decency, respect and inclusion.

What would make God worthy of worship?

Substituting 'real entity' for God', I was going to say, nothing, but maybe the answer is, the prompt, efficient and unconditional granting of your wishes in return for the worship, so far as those wishes accord with paragraph one above.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I edited my first post.

What would make a God worthy of admiration, or worship and praise?

Honesty and integrity.