What are the mistakes Muslims do when informing others about Islam?

[Aquitaine]

In my opinion the problem is, like with all religions and idealogies that there are as many different versions of (in this case) Islam as there are Muslims. Every follower has their own interpretation of the current interpretations and translations, hence why even within the same religion there are factions who serirously disagree with one-another etc. I mean, look at the Sunnis and the Shi'ites for example!

It seems that (with virtually all religions, and not just Islam) it is in fact the followers of the faith who need to inform themselves and each other as to what the faith "really is" before starting to export the ideology to outsiders.

Of course, personally I don't support the idea of trying to "gather" and solidify any particular faith: instead I think people should be able to follow thier own faiths in their own ways, rather than trying to objectify the faith.

So, step 1 - what is Islam and what is Islamic? See the problem?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Islam can be very simple Paul, especially if you go by just the Quran alone. The Quranis are some of the most liberal Muslims I've ever met, because truthfully, the Quran was a very moderate book for it's time, and it still is- a lot more moderate then the Bible. Everything most westerners find extreme about Islam comes from hadiths.

 

[YmirGF]

Everything most westerners find extreme about Islam comes from hadiths.

Frankly, I find the Qur'an to be filled with hatred. I guess it is all in the perspective and the tinting of ones glasses though.

 

[Aquitaine]

Islam can be very simple Paul, especially if you go by just the Quran alone. The Quranis are some of the most liberal Muslims I've ever met, because truthfully, the Quran was a very moderate book for it's time, and it still is- a lot more moderate then the Bible. Everything most westerners find extreme about Islam comes from hadiths.

But let's say for example, if you were trying to export "Islam" to non-Muslims, how can you be sure that what you view of Islam is the "true" Islam? I say this because I hear this a lot on RF from Muslim posters who disagree with each other over what is "real" Islam and what isn't.

Honestly, I don't think anyone can ever get past Step 1, the same goes for every other religion too. No-one can truely objectify any religion because for the most part, they're based heavily on subjective interpretation and varying levels of tolerance - to the point where I find any attempt to proselytize as almost completely pointless, in my opinion.

 

[Eliot Wild]

actually,what does it mean when you talk about equality between gender?we are binded with the fact which is "woman is not same with man ,physically, mentally,inside and outside".that is the fact.you cannot deny it. if you deny it,so,why should there is separate category for man and women in sports?in tennis let say,why we have different category for woman and man?why dont we just "vanish" the category if you said about equality?

I certainly don't want to send this thread spiraling off topic, but I wanted to specifically address the post above.

Yes, there are obvious differences between men and women, just as there are obvious differences between races. But I daresay it is now becoming conventional wisdom in the Western world that differences have no bearing on equality.

Our differences shouldn't entitle one gender or the other to more inherent political power or to more rights under civil and criminal law or to a higher and/or more engaged social status.

These obvious gender differences shouldn't have any impact on a person's right to liberty and justice. In other words, the law shouldn't take a differnt approach to women and men. Both genders are equally protected and equally subject to the Law and equally afforded those rights guaranteed by the Law.

More to the original topic, however, I can only speak for myself and my personal view of Islam. To me, it seems that Islam is flawed because it condones violence. So, if a Muslim wants to convince me otherwise, they need to explain why Islam seems to provide so many rationalizations for man-on-man violence. I find it hard to believe that a perfectly just and perfectly good God/Allah would ever condone or justify violence of any form.

Whenever I hear religious justifications for violence, even if it is to oppose and defend against the violence of others, I immediately doubt the veracity of that particular religion. Violence and cruelty come from man; they are not products of the divine.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well Paul you will of course hear Sunnis putting forth Islam most of the time, because Sunnis are the majority in Islam. However, that doesn't make Sunnis the authentic Islam. Unfortunately the Islam that most westerners get exposed to is a very conservative, almost radical form of Sunnism.

 

[Breathe]

Yes, but aren't these the hot topics of the debates anyway? Most of these topics were addressed hundreds of times.

I was talking about the West in general, not on here.

 

[xkatz]

I think that the key things Muslims need to discuss are:

-Jihad and it's meaning and purpose
-Women in Islam
-How Al Qaeda and the Taliban are different from mainstream Mulsims
-The Quran and it's meaning
-Muhammad's life
-Sectarians differences in Islam (ie Sunni, Shia, etc)

These sorts of things are not well understood by many non-Muslims and by talking about them it could ease a lot suspicions towards Muslims in "The West".

 

[Aquitaine]

However, that doesn't make Sunnis the authentic Islam. .

​

What does? Or what is, the authentic Islam? Personally (as with all religions/ideologies), I don't think such a thing exists. So again I wonder, why do people bother to proselytize, when they can't even be sure that their own interpretation and following of their faith is even accurate? ​

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well to know what the authentic Islam is we have to look at history. Who did Muhammad name as his successor, even in the Sunni hadith books, and who usurped that successor's authority? Who did Muhammad bless and ask Allah to purify from sin, and who did Muhammad merely call his companions? Who is the friends of the family of the prophet, and who historically hated and martyred the family of the prophet? Answer: Shia= Islam

 

[Sahar]

But let's say for example, if you were trying to export "Islam" to non-Muslims, how can you be sure that what you view of Islam is the "true" Islam? I say this because I hear this a lot on RF from Muslim posters who disagree with each other over what is "real" Islam and what isn't.

The disagreement between the Sunna and Shi'a is clear. There are basics that Muslims agree upon. There are less important topics that can be disagreeable. In Islam, there is a wide room for disagreement on the secondary issues, I view it as a very good thing. Internal dialogue and difference is very positive. Secondly, when anyone tells you anything ask for the evidence that back up his claim. I as a Muslim face this issue; certain topics are controversial between the scholars, what I do is to look for each side's evidence from the Qur'an or the Sunnah and to look how every side justify its position.

Someone can come and tell you that drinking alcohol is not forbidden in Islam, well all what you can do is to face him with the evidence from the Qur'an and/or the Sunnah that proves the contrary and so on...

 

[Fatihah]

Well to know what the authentic Islam is we have to look at history. Who did Muhammad name as his successor, even in the Sunni hadith books, and who usurped that successor's authority? Who did Muhammad bless and ask Allah to purify from sin, and who did Muhammad merely call his companions? Who is the friends of the family of the prophet, and who historically hated and martyred the family of the prophet? Answer: Shia= Islam

Response: The qur'an clearly states not to divide the religion into sects. So trying to make a claim that Shia= Islam while making the fundamental error that Islam is not to be divided into sects shows that you are by far not the person to be advocating what islam is to begin with.

 

[Aquitaine]

Well to know what the authentic Islam is we have to look at history. Who did Muhammad name as his successor, even in the Sunni hadith books, and who usurped that successor's authority? Who did Muhammad bless and ask Allah to purify from sin, and who did Muhammad merely call his companions? Who is the friends of the family of the prophet, and who historically hated and martyred the family of the prophet? Answer: Shia= Islam

​

Well, that would depend on historic artifacts and records etc, which are all documented by Humans and are open to bias and innaccuracy. You seem to sound quite certain that you've got it right with the Shia=Islam thing, does that then mean that the vast majority of Muslims (Sunnis) are infact, not Muslims?​

Again it comes back to this issue of what "real" Islam is. I think no such thing can exist since it's all based on interpretation of language, history, and I guess (in relation to assessing what Mohammad did in his lifetime) character analysis. The same with all other religions. It's like trying to argue about what is "true" Love or "true" Happyness. Y' know what I mean?​

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Paul they're Muslims, but their way of practicing Islam is incorrect.

 

[Aquitaine]

The disagreement between the Sunna and Shi'a is clear. There are basics that Muslims agree upon. There are less important topics that can be disagreeable. In Islam, there is a wide room for disagreement on the secondary issues, I view it as a very good thing. Internal dialogue and difference is very positive. Secondly, when anyone tells you anything ask for the evidence that back up his claim. I as a Muslim face this issue; certain topics are controversial between the scholars, what I do is to look for each side's evidence from the Qur'an or the Sunnah and to look how every side justify its position.

Someone can come and tell you that drinking alcohol is not forbidden in Islam, well all what you can do is to face him with the evidence from the Qur'an and/or the Sunnah that proves the contrary and so on...

So then if Muslims all agree on a set of basic principles, can you clearly announce for me what a "real" Muslim is, and what "real" Islam is, and (hypothetically) no other Muslim will disagree with you?

 

[xkatz]

Paul they're Muslims, but their way of practicing Islam is incorrect.

Why don't you just revert to Shia Islam

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Xkatz because I don't believe in Islam. That's not to say I still don't have a high level of respect for Shia. I just don't believe in the religion. Xkatz I'm allowed to give my opinion that Shia is still the authentic Islam in my view, just as much as an ex-Catholic can still say Catholicism is the authentic Christianity.

 

[Aquitaine]

Paul they're Muslims, but their way of practicing Islam is incorrect.

LOL how can you says Sunnis are practicing Islam incorrectly!? How can one be the judge of that, though?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Paul I used to be a Shia, so maybe that makes me a little biased

 

[Aquitaine]

Xkatz because I don't believe in Islam. That's not to say I still don't have a high level of respect for Shia. I just don't believe in the religion. Xkatz I'm allowed to give my opinion that Shia is still the authentic Islam in my view, just as much as an ex-Catholic can still say Catholicism is the authentic Christianity.

This here is the problem, everyone has their own interpretation of the interpretations and practises. So who, if anyone, is correct?

Can you see now why I think proselytizing is pointless?