What are your thoughts about the Catholic Church?

[metis]

I believe you just described quit a bit of what Constantine did, but not all, of how Constantine, along with the Roman and Hellenist church fathers, founded the Roman Church, and established the Canon of the New Testament. .

The fathers were mostly not Roman but included bishops from other areas as well. What evidence can you provide to show that he selected just the "Hellenist church fathers"?

Also, he did not select the canon but did order it to be formed because of competing groups. He was not a theologian, and the selection of the canon was completed long after he croaked.

 

[shunyadragon]

It begs the question as to how could the early church of the apostles supposedly just disappear into thin air without a trace, according to some? I don't buy it, especially since we do have at least some of the second century writings that confirms a continuation.

No one is claiming that the early church disappeared into thin air. The problem remains there is no continuity of scripture, the gospels from before 50 AD to after the destruction of the Temple. The gospels remain a progressive compilation, editing and redacting, between 50 AD and ~200-300 AD.

There remains no outside witnesses nor historical records of Jesus Christ during his life time. The continuity is just not there.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Changed my vote to "the Church isn't too bad", but my feelings about the institution and hierarchy verge on dislike.

 

[shunyadragon]

The fathers were mostly not Roman but included bishops from other areas as well. What evidence can you provide to show that he selected just the "Hellenist church fathers"?

Yes other areas of Rome, and still Rome. By the time of Constantine there were no Jews nor descendants of traditional Jews among the church fathers.

Also, he did not select the canon but did order it to be formed because of competing groups. He was not a theologian, and the selection of the canon was completed long after he croaked.

I said Constantine and the Roman church fathers. Eusebius was a Hellenist Greek Christian scholar primarily responsible for the compilation of the first Bibles.

Paul was a Hellenist Jew, and Greek philosophy influenced Paul and Christian beliefs. In fact Paul and Eusebius are primary influence of the formation of Christian Theology.

 

[metis]

I said Constantine and the Roman church fathers. Eusebius was a Hellenist Greek Christian scholar primarily responsible for the compilation of the first Bibles.

Paul was a Hellenist Jew, and Greek philosophy influenced Paul and Christian beliefs. In fact Paul and Eusebius are primary influence of the formation of Christian Theology.

The Hennezation of especially certain regions (north & coastal) of eretz Israel took place long before Jesus was even born, and it appears that he was influenced by it as well as were many, if not most, of his followers, especially the "God-Fearers" (gentiles who believed in the God of Abraham but who didn't convert to Judaism). Paul undoubtedly sped up that process even more so.

IMO, it's neither good or bad-- it just is, as no religion is exempt from outside influences, nor are all outside influences intrinsically bad. That influence had an effect of making Jesus and his followers less parochial and more inclusive, which made it much more appealing to gentiles, especially those in the diasporah.

 

[MJFlores]

Just wondering if you could share your thoughts about Catholicism, if you have any.

Well, there are many adherents.
Maybe 1.2 Billion adherents

Walking on the Catholic way
Used to be one by the way

I have lots of friends and relatives who are Catholic
Whether you go to church or not, you won't be missed

But I had chose the narrow gate.

Matthew 7:13-14

“Enter through the narrow gate.
For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[metis]

But I had chose the narrow gate.

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

I don't think the "narrow gate" is a reference to which church one may belong to as it's rather clear that Jesus used it in reference to one's actions, not which synagogue/church they walked into.

Secondly, how do you know that you are on the "narrow path" but @PopeADope isn't? IOW, what are you basing this on?

 

[Katzpur]

But I had chose the narrow gate.

I'm curious as to what you believe will be the fate of those who, due to circumstances beyond their control, were never able to find the path, much less the gate.

 

[Shad]

The Church has done some good over the centuries such as providing the only form of education commoners had access to. It needs to stay out of politics which is probably a sore point for a lot of people and history.

 

[leibowde84]

Here is a story that no one will believe, but that happens a lot on religious topics. There was a Pagan named Simon the Sorcerer who saw the apostles performing miracles with the power of God. Simon tried to pay the apostles to give him that power. Of course they refused. So he decided to make up his own religion using the name of "Christian" but built on his pagan beliefs. Over time and with the help of Satan that church gained power and evolved into the world wide "universal" church we see today. It uses the name "Christian" but is built on pagan ideas. It claims to be built on Simon Peter but the true founder is another Simon. The pagan sorcerer. The "rock" that God's church is built on is Jesus who is called the "rock" many times in the Bible.

All Christian denominations came out of catholicism or the "universal" church of christ. So, are you saying that all christian denominations are part of this falsehood engineered by satan?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Yes.God chose the ancient nation of Isreal as His chosen people and God said He never changes.

 

[Brinne]

I'm satisfied with the Catholic Church. It does great good through the patronage and maintenance of some of the West's greatest architectural and artistic masterpieces (which, to be quite honest I'd rather have in a museum in the Vatican than in some rich wall street banker's parlor but I digress), inventing the modern day museum as we know it, providing (as Bishop Robert Barron described very well IMO) "the flesh of the word" through upholding sacred tradition, as well as maintaining one of the largest charity outreach programs in the world.

However it's not without its fault, just like an organization. Throughout the years the Church has fallen short of expectations (very greatly so) in grandiose cases such as Leo X's mistreatment of the power of the papacy, various pedophilia scandals, and rulings on contraception in developing places that have led to the spread of disease. I do recognize that these faults within the Church and they are things that deserve attention so that they can be properly fixed/addressed/represented in our history.

That being said, claims that the Catholic Church is the "Whore of Babylon" seem kind of outlandish to me. At the end of the day it's another Church, albeit a larger and older one.

 

[MJFlores]

I'm curious as to what you believe will be the fate of those who, due to circumstances beyond their control, were never able to find the path, much less the gate.

Not on personal belief but on the Bible.

Romans 2:14-16 New International Version (NIV)

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Let us take for example the various native tribes who do not know God, not even the bible, not even the Lord Jesus. God will judge them too - on Judgement Day.

How? As the bible says...
The law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts

 

[MJFlores]

I don't think the "narrow gate" is a reference to which church one may belong to as it's rather clear that Jesus used it in reference to one's actions, not which synagogue/church they walked into.

Secondly, how do you know that you are on the "narrow path" but @PopeADope isn't? IOW, what are you basing this on?

Let us get back to the verse again:

Matthew 7:13-14

“Enter through the narrow gate.
For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

The gate which leads to destruction:

• easy to get in - it is wide
• easy to be in - the road is broad
• there are many people

Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. John 10:7,9

I think my Lord Jesus Christ guarantees that whoever enters through me will be saved

Now all people have to do is to find that gate for the sheep.

The gate which leads to life

• hard to get in - it is small
• hard to be in - the road is narrow
• there are few people

 

[Katzpur]

Not on personal belief but on the Bible.

Romans 2:14-16 New International Version (NIV)

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

View attachment 16939
Let us take for example the various native tribes who do not know God, not even the bible, not even the Lord Jesus. God will judge them too - on Judgement Day.

How? As the bible says...
The law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts

View attachment 16940

So it sounds as if you are saying that God gives people a free pass, depending upon their circumstances, and that one need not necessarily have to accept Jesus Christ in order to be saved. I guess that makes more sense than if He were to condemn them all to an eternity of suffering. I have a different take on the matter, but I do appreciate your sharing your thoughts.

 

[MJFlores]

So it sounds as if you are saying that God gives people a free pass, depending upon their circumstances, and that one need not necessarily have to accept Jesus Christ in order to be saved. I guess that makes more sense than if He were to condemn them all to an eternity of suffering. I have a different take on the matter, but I do appreciate your sharing your thoughts.

Free pass? If their conscience say this thing I am doing is wrong - I'm sure God would see it.

They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets

 

[Willamena]

I voted that I like the Church. I'm not a Christian, but I attended a Christian wedding once in Chicago, and acquired a significant explanation of the mythic meaning for some of the symbolism. Needless to say I appreciated it.

 

[metis]

Let us take for example the various native tribes who do not know God, not even the bible, not even the Lord Jesus. God will judge them too - on Judgement Day.

So, is it the fault of such people that they "do not know God, not even the bible, not even the Lord Jesus"? Are such people condemned by God, iyo?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Church has done some good over the centuries such as providing the only form of education commoners had access to. It needs to stay out of politics which is probably a sore point for a lot of people and history.

To be fair, for it to stay out of politics would be a major departure from what it's done for its entire history. We're talking about a church that used to rule a country directly... and not just a pretend country like Vatican City; the Papal States really were countries in their own right.

While the fact that the Holy See has ambassadors to various countries that get treated like foreign diplomats is anachronistic and offensive, it does make a degree of sense, given the history of the Church. It's just another denomination now, but there was a time when it had a legitimate place in politics... or at least as legitimate a place as an absolutist monarchy can have.

 

[Katzpur]

Free pass? If their conscience say this thing I am doing is wrong - I'm sure God would see it.

But the Bible says one must believe in Christ in order to be saved. Are Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc. who have heard of Christ but remain in other religions going to be saved if they are otherwise good people? (Don't try to read my beliefs into the question, please, as I can assure you it won't get you anywhere. Just respond as honestly as you can.)