What are your thoughts about the Catholic Church?

[Katzpur]

I remember being young and knowing everything important.

Yeah, it's funny what effect maturity can have on even the most brilliant among us.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You're not all that young. You're 5 years older than Stalwart.

We're probably still considered the same generation. Regardless, I see no evidence of any ultra-conservative youth surge in Catholicism, at least in America.

 

[columbus]

We're probably still considered the same generation. Regardless, I see no evidence of any ultra-conservative youth surge in Catholicism, at least in America.

I kinda have. I generally don't spend much time around the "youth", at church, but extremism in general seems on the rise among young people.
Maybe I am just old and notice it more. I dunno.
Tom

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I kinda have. I generally don't spend much time around the "youth", at church, but extremism in general seems on the rise among young people.
Maybe I am just old and notice it more. I dunno.
Tom

It might have to do with where you live, too. The most I've seen in this area from Catholics are typical conservative and Republican stances, but that's it.

 

[Stalwart]

Boy, I bet Francis is relieved!

Was that supposed to be a joke? It's how the Church functions. Laymen - those who are not lay theologians especially - do not reserve the right to condemn clerics.

Suit yourself. Maybe you should start your own church.
Tom

I'm 'not suiting myself'; I'm abiding by Catholic tradition. I'm not the one to determine that that's the case - others vastly superior to myself have, though, and I recognise the truth in what they say:

Nocookies

The letter itself, which includes a list of the erroneous or potentially heretical propositions in AL, can be viewed after the third paragraph of the article.

 

[leibowde84]

I understand, and you are right; it's NOT logical. However, it's understandable! It took me a long time to figure out that being scared of there 'being nothing after death' was weird....as if we were going to be around to actually experience that nothing?

I think this fear is a sort of ingrained faith and understanding that yep, there will be something. We just can't wrap our minds around 'non-existence,' can we?

I THINK I finally did, for myself...I'm not afraid of there being 'nothing' after death any more. The idea doesn't bug me at all.

.................which may be rather ironic since I firmly believe that there is not only 'something,' but I have some idea of what it will probably be like.

Maybe.

The fear of death is most certainly an evolutionary trait. It is monumentally important that thinking animals fear their own demise.

 

[DrTCH]

First, please allow me to express a word of thanks. I have been DELIGHTED to have discovered this site...and to have the opportunity for free discussion. I don't happen to value Organized Religion, as such, but do VERY MUCH hold to a more generic sense of, let us say, a "fundamental spirituality" underlying all, and from which we may draw. Blessings to all!!

 

[DrTCH]

I was raised a RC in my early years, but soon turned away...became very disaffected. First, probably, as a reaction to some very strict nun teachers in elementary school. Later, from a negative reaction to--what struck me--as a very unhealthy viewpoint on sexuality, a large shame-blame component, a truly warped idea of mankind's essential depravity (from the silly OT "Legend of the Fall" fairy tale); a very worrisome (and thoroughly illogical) body of dogma-doctrine, and, yes, problems with pedophilia among many of the priesthood (which also overlaps with the screwy idea that celibacy is the ideal, and that were one to engage in sex, at all (only in the context of marriage...which is, in itself, weird in my opinion), it most be solely for the production of children (What the hell were they thinking?).

Of course, the Roman Catholic Church is also SORELY lacking in the areas of birth control and termination of pregnancy. I will mention very briefly that I do not like "either extreme" with regard to the latter issue. I don't happen to support the idea of an "abortion right" (abortion "on-demand"..under all circumstances), but OBVIOUSLY, there must be some cases in which termination of a pregnancy would be acceptable, such as ones involving a rape or clear and distinct signs of major birth defects. Unfortunately, many gravitate to the extreme poles of this issue.

 

[minorwork]

Just wondering if you could share your thoughts about Catholicism, if you have any.

I'll bet the Church's bingo revenues went down as did the membership about the time that State Lotteries, video gambling, horse and dog and jai-alai gambling started proliferating.

The new HOPE for people having none was no longer in the promised life after life, but in the here and now with the lure of a win in real time, not fantasy.

The pedophile priests didn't but accelerate the flight of funding and members away.

 

[sunray]

Anyway, I think the Roman ( Yeah we're still stuck with the romans, 2000 years later and (Tutankh)-Amen) Catholic Church is coming to an end as the age of Pisces is coming to an end! A new age The age of Aquarius is to start in 2050. The new Christ for the New age, which arrives every 2150 years, should be revealed soon. He should last until the new Capricorn age many years to go. We are now in the cusp of Pisces and Aquarius. Each age and many cultures has its Christ, each Christ more refined than the last; perhaps the Romans will still be around too. That's life.
Sunray
The New Christ

More on my Blog

We can do better:

Believe me its not so simple. As Paul (in an esoteric way) says Each Human has the possibiliy to become a new creation. In such an endeavor, a Spiritual Sun rises through the top of one's head the size of a volley ball, this sun becomes 3 or 4 times bigger within an hour of its birth surrounding the head. The hot flames of this real spiritual sun become cool and healing in nature. So The son of God, son or daughter that should be, gives birth to the Spiritual Sun. Simple really. Takes a good 40 years of real good years! with some bad momentsbut full of surprises.
But you don't have to take my word for it, try it, 40 years, best to start very young.

 

[shunyadragon]

The choices offered did make it difficult to answer, but nonetheless I choose the least terrible choice "I dislike the Church."

Nonetheless, the history and nature of the Roman Church does not reflect the claim of the church that it is the universal standard of Revelation and Salvation for humanity. Its history reflects a very human institution with very human faults anchored in a Roman culture, almost 2,000 years old. Also, many of the beliefs are based on ancient Babylonian, Ugarite, and Canaanite mythology.

The concept of the Trinity remains a problematic belief in Tritheism, with the belief in a lesser goddess Mary, making the assertion of monotheism difficult to accept. This better reflects Roman/Hellenist belief in Gods.

 

[metis]

The choices offered did make it difficult to answer, but nonetheless I choose the least terrible choice "I dislike the Church."

Nonetheless, the history and nature of the Roman Church does not reflect the claim of the church that it is the universal standard of Revelation and Salvation for humanity. Its history reflects a very human institution with very human faults anchored in a Roman culture, almost 2,000 years old. Also, many of the beliefs are based on ancient Babylonian, Ugarite, and Canaanite mythology.

The concept of the Trinity remains a problematic belief in Tritheism, with the belief in a lesser goddess Mary, making the assertion of monotheism difficult to accept. This better reflects Roman/Hellenist belief in Gods.

It's no wonder that you "dislike the Church" because you pervert what it actually teaches and how it functions today. Maybe if you saw it the way it really is, you might at the least dislike it less.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't appreciate slander.

Really? From your posts in this thread, I would've assumed you were a slander enthusiast.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

When I think about the Catholic Church, I have to remember to separate the doctrines of the Catholic Church from its power and influence.

While I think that the Catholic Church has engaged in some horrendous things (slavery; human trafficking; supporting pedophiles; physical and sexual abuse of orphans and indigenous children; blocking the legalization of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, and contraception to name some of the worst examples.., and all this is only considering the past century), I also recognize that the sheer scale of this horror is due in no small part to the regard that secular institutions have to the Church: if Irish police didn't hand their files over to the local bishop to let them handle pedophile priests internally, the sex abuse scandal would've been significantly curtailed. If the Canadian government hadn't supplied the Catholic Church with orphans, we wouldn't have had Mount Cashel. If the Spanish government hadn't entrusted the Catholic Church with running hospitals, the baby-selling scandal wouldn't have happened.

So I see the Catholic Church in a generally negative light, but at the same time, I recognize that if not for the (IMO undeserved) deference given to the Catholic Church by government agencies worldwide, it would be just another church in terms of the harm it does.

 

[james bond]

Catholicism and Christianity are different. Catholics are much stricter and have added extraneous religious practices such as the seven sacraments, the stations of the cross and that hell is being burned alive 24/7 forever. I went through an elementary Catholic parochial school and at thirteen I rebelled. It's why some of the worst kids are Catholic kids. They put too much guilt upon the individual. I sarcastically say Catholics do not feel good unless they have something to feel guilty about. Yet, I think they're the richest and most powerful group in Christianity.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Catholicism and Christianity are different.

That's right: one is a subset of the other. All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics.

 

[james bond]

I recognise the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church as the one Church which Jesus Christ founded to bring together His faithful. I recognise that the Catholic Church is the sole depository of objective moral and religious truth. I recognise that without Christ, one cannot be saved - and that without the Church, one cannot have Christ; that one cannot have God for a father who does not have the Church for a mother. I recognise that all outside of Her cannot be saved. I recognise that within the Catholic Church subsists the Body of Christ, and that none outside of her can possibly merit the name 'Christian', because they are in all cases deviant from the faith that Christ granted to Man.

I strongly dislike the person of our Holy Father, Pope Francis, as well as all the post-concilliar popes and the destruction that they have wrought through the propagation of the abominable pastoral changes introduced in the Second Vatican Council. It has led to the decimation of the Church; its priests, its religious, and its laypeople. Those who recognise themselves as Catholic rarely understand the faith. We are in a disastrous state, and only God can possibly set things straight.

That same disaster of the falling away from faith - the "crisis of modernism"; the Church's fourth great crisis - is what has led to the corruption of the visible hierarchy of the Church. Clerical sexual abuse and avaricious corruption is a result of the watering down of the faith. The Church must come to rediscover Her own traditions, and revive them, doing away with the sickness of the post-50s ideology.

Those guilty of such corruption ought to be reprimanded gravely, and those who would abuse their position of trusted authority to take from the young their innocence and purity - not to mention their trust in the Church - ought to suffer in the extreme. That said, the Church is not what you see; the Church is the community of Christians throughout the world, subject to the visible element of shepherds. The corruption within the ecclesiastical body of the contemporary Church (which is thorough, but not complete) has completely no impact upon the fact that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ - that Her teachings are His own - and that all outside of Her can never enter unto salvation.



There is no such thing as a Christian who exists outside of the Catholic Church, and there is absolutely no salvation outside of the Church. Ergo, you are not a Christian, and if you were to die, you would never be saved, by virtue of existing outside of the Church.

Post-50s ideology? Her own traditions? Deviant from the faith that Christ granted to man? That's Catholicism in my opinion.

Let's discuss "clerical sexual abuse."

Why can't Catholic priests marry? Why can't women become Catholic priests?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Let's discuss "clerical sexual abuse."

Catholic priests are pedophiles at about the same rate as other denominations. The things that let the problem grow to the size it did in the Catholic Church was caused by a few different factors:

1. The Church's hierarchical structure, which allowed bishops to unilaterally move pedophile priests from parish to parish.

2. (At least until the last few decades) a poor understanding of the issue of pedophilia, how to address it when it happens and how to prevent it.

3. Church power and influence with governments, which allowed the Church to shield pedophile priests and the bishops who abetted them.

Issue 1 is the only one that Protestant denominations are really shielded from, because they tend to give more power to individual churches to make their own decisions.

Issue 2 is certainly a problem with Protestant denominations... and I'd argue that in many cases, it's a bigger problem now for Protestants than it is for Catholics. This is partly because - in all fairness - the Catholic Church has put a ton of work into anti-abuse policies to stop further scandals from happening. It's also partly because of that hierarchical structure: the Catholic Church has the power to impose rules on its priests and churches ("here is our diocese's abuse prevention policy, and all you parish priests will ensure it's followed or we'll replace you with ones who will") while Protestant churches tend to be freer to do their own thing; also, those individual Protestant churches may not have the resources for proper policy development and training.

Issue 3 can happen when any church gets significant influence with government. The solution is secularism, not handing power to some other denomination.

Why can't Catholic priests marry?

Some can. Eastern Rite Catholic priests are the biggest group that are allowed to marry. Western Rite priests generally aren't allowed (though I think they made an exception for married Anglican priests who convert). It's considered a discipline, not a doctrine, so it's a rule that can be changed (by the Pope, IIRC) if they see fit.

Why can't women become Catholic priests?

That's a matter of doctrine. The Catholic Church's doctrine is that the Sacrament of the Eucharist must be performed by a man.

 

[JustWondering]

Just wondering if you could share your thoughts about Catholicism, if you have any.

I could bash on the Catholic Church for the crusades, the inquisition, systemic child abuse, and laundering money for drug cartels but I'm sure others will bring that up.

My main problem with the church is that it helps keep humanity stuck with a backwards bronze age mentality. Look at the church's stance on birth control for example. It promotes the spread of disease. Also, doesn't the world have enough people already? Overpopulation leads to things like famine and wars. However, the misery caused by overpopulation stirs up business for the church, right? It's the 21st century, its time for humanity to grow up. Just like we discard our belief in Santa Claus at a certain age we need to discard our belief in invisible beings that are magically going to show up and make everything honky dory for us at some unspecified time in the future. Such beliefs will ultimately only cause harm.

 

[columbus]

Issue 2 is certainly a problem with Protestant denominations... and I'd argue that in many cases, it's a bigger problem now for Protestants than it is for Catholics. This is partly because - in all fairness - the Catholic Church has put a ton of work into anti-abuse policies to stop further scandals from happening. It's also partly because of that hierarchical structure: the Catholic Church has the power to impose rules on its priests and churches ("here is our diocese's abuse prevention policy, and all you parish priests will ensure it's followed or we'll replace you with ones who will") while Protestant churches tend to be freer to do their own thing; also, those individual Protestant churches may not have the resources for proper policy development and training.

AMEN BROTHER!
One of the things that anti Catholic people refuse to grasp is that the church, in it's own way, has made serious strides towards elimination of that evil.
Could they do better and more? Sure. That will always be true. But the equation of good to abuse has altered hugely in recent years, especially concerning children. And it wasn't always some Vatican pronouncements, much of the change was bottom up. Parishioners have a ton of influence in the local doings of the church, at least here in the USA. The pressure for reform was huge and couldn't be swept under the rug.
Tom