What are your thoughts about the Catholic Church?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

AMEN BROTHER!
One of the things that anti Catholic people refuse to grasp is that the church, in it's own way, has made serious strides towards elimination of that evil.
Could they do better and more? Sure. That will always be true. But the equation of good to abuse has altered hugely in recent years, especially concerning children. And it wasn't always some Vatican pronouncements, much of the change was bottom up. Parishioners have a ton of influence in the local doings of the church, at least here in the USA. The pressure for reform was huge and couldn't be swept under the rug.
Tom

I'd say that most of the change on this front has been at the diocese level, not top-down from the Vatican. In fact, the Vatican has sometimes gotten in the way, as it did in the late 90s with its letter to the Irish archbishops when it told them (shamefully, IMO) to scale back their anti-abuse policy to bring it in line with canon law.

At this point, I'd say that the archdiocese of Toronto's anti-abuse policies are responsible and in line with those of other youth-oriented organizations. Where some confusion still exists, IMO, is that there are cases where a parish can be within the physical boundaries of a diocese but be run by a religious order; these parishes are subject to the rules of the order, not the diocese, and can be more opaque as to what their policies are.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

According to Christian Theology, God loved us so much that He became one of us, shared in our misery, and died for us

How can god share our misery when he is god?

He would have to be 100 percent human to totally understand human nature since according to christianity, we have inherited sin and god cant have our misery cause he cant be around sin.

 

[shunyadragon]

It's no wonder that you "dislike the Church" because you pervert what it actually teaches and how it functions today. Maybe if you saw it the way it really is, you might at the least dislike it less.

What I presented were honest objections, and much milder than George Carline, and others. I also indicated I did not like the choices presented.

Beliefs in the Fall and Original Sin are also problematic, and also based on ancient mythology. The beliefs of many churches are also problematic, because they indeed have similar beliefs ancient beliefs based mythology.

I was raised in the Roman Church, and I am Irish by heritage. I attended Roman boot camp school in Costa Rica, and considered becoming a Priest and studied in the St. Franciscan Order for a year.

 

[Spiderman]

How can god share our misery when he is god?

He would have to be 100 percent human to totally understand human nature since according to christianity, we have inherited sin and god cant have our misery cause he cant be around sin.

He can't fully share in human misery but Scripture says he took our sins upon himself and became "a curse"

 

[columbus]

Beliefs in the Fall and Original Sin are also problematic, and also based on ancient mythology. The beliefs of many churches are also problematic, because they indeed have similar beliefs ancient beliefs based mythology.

I have yet to learn of a revealed religion that didn't feature "problematic" beliefs.
Tom

 

[Unveiled Artist]

He can't fully share in human misery but Scripture says he took our sins upon himself and became "a curse"

That's the thing. How can he share in our misery if he can't fully share in it and he can't be around sin?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The choices offered did make it difficult to answer, but nonetheless I choose the least terrible choice "I dislike the Church."

Nonetheless, the history and nature of the Roman Church does not reflect the claim of the church that it is the universal standard of Revelation and Salvation for humanity. Its history reflects a very human institution with very human faults anchored in a Roman culture, almost 2,000 years old. Also, many of the beliefs are based on ancient Babylonian, Ugarite, and Canaanite mythology.

The concept of the Trinity remains a problematic belief in Tritheism, with the belief in a lesser goddess Mary, making the assertion of monotheism difficult to accept. This better reflects Roman/Hellenist belief in Gods.

Have you ever worshiped or even prayed alone in a Roman Catholic Church?

How can you judge the body of Christ based on the political history of the Church?

That's like basing thousands of Catholics' worship and relationship with christ on the thousands of years of history the Church committed apart from one's private devotion.

Also, as a Bahai, is the nature of putting down another religion's history part of your faith?

 

[shunyadragon]

Have you ever worshiped or even prayed alone in a Roman Catholic Church?

I was raised in the Roman Church, and I am Irish by heritage. I attended Roman boot camp school in Costa Rica, and considered becoming a Priest and studied in the St. Franciscan Order for a year.

How can you judge the body of Christ based on the political history of the Church?

The questionable political history is the least of the problems of the Roman Church

That's like basing thousands of Catholics' worship and relationship with christ on the thousands of years of history the Church committed apart from one's private devotion.

Argument from popularity is a fallacy.

Also, as a Bahai, is the nature of putting down another religion's history part of your faith?

Baha'i teachings support the reality of all the Manifestations of God for the age they were revealed. Jesus Christ is considered a Manifestation of God for the age He Revealed. Careful with what your calling 'putting down.' Honest criticism of very real problems with ancient religious beliefs is part of the reason I am a Baha'i.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How can you judge the body of Christ based on the political history of the Church?

What does "the body of Christ" have to do with the Catholic Church?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I was raised in the Roman Church, and I am Irish by heritage. I attended Roman boot camp school in Costa Rica, and considered becoming a Priest and studied in the St. Franciscan Order for a year.

Being raised in the Church and actually being part of the Church are two different things. One can have all the knowledge, wisdom, and devotion in ritual in the world but if you are not part of the Body of Christ (like you are not now) then that is kinda moot.

If you still believe in god, the Church's politics shouldn't gear you away from your devotion. It's history shouldn't impact your relationship with Christ unless you either maybe didn't have a solid relationship with Christ or decided to leave because of christ not because of the politics of the Church.

The questionable political history is the least of the problems of the Roman Church

It has nothing to do with a Catholic's devotion to Christ and the sacraments. You're mixing two things that do not go together.

Argument from popularity is a fallacy.

That's what you're doing. Basing all these people's devotion to Christ based on the history of the Church.

Baha'i teachings support the reality of all the Manifestations of God for the age they were revealed. Jesus Christ is considered a Manifestation of God for the age He Revealed. Careful with what your calling 'putting down.' Honest criticism of very real problems with ancient religious beliefs is part of the reason I am a Baha'i.

Putting down or belittling. The way your post is set up, you are expressing strong feelings against the Church but the words you use do not read as honest disagreement but dispising the Church for it's political nature rather than, as a former Catholic, probably appreciating your experience as a Catholic (if positive) regardless of what religion you are now.

Especially if jesus christ is part of your religion.

The concept of the Trinity remains a problematic belief in Tritheism, with the belief in a lesser goddess Mary, making the assertion of monotheism difficult to accept. This better reflects Roman/Hellenist belief in Gods.​

I mean, this could be true and all. If you practiced and worshiped as a Catholic, would this matter in your devotion or is this a good reason for you to leave and why you dislike the Church?

Whether it's downing the Church in your point of view is your call, though. From someone who supports the Church, (if you look at it from a Catholic point of view), it's saying that the Church is Pagan and not part of Christianity therefore not a real christian belief.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What does "the body of Christ" have to do with the Catholic Church?

The Catholic Church is the body of Christ.

I'm confused with the question.

 

[Spiderman]

That's the thing. How can he share in our misery if he can't fully share in it and he can't be around sin?

He can share in some of our misery with the exception of sin. He can become one of us and suffer human misery without sinning. However, that isn't a full share in human misery, I agree.

However, he may have still suffered more than the average person. Who knows?

 

[shunyadragon]

The Catholic Church is the body of Christ.

I'm confused with the question.

I would view ALL the churches of Christianity as the body of Christ, not just the Roman Church. You just brought up one more objection I have to the Roman Church's egocentric claims.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's perhaps one of the greatest criminal organizations in history, and certainly one of the most successful, even today.

 

[shunyadragon]

I have yet to learn of a revealed religion that didn't feature "problematic" beliefs.
Tom

True, but this does not address the problems.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

He can share in some of our misery with the exception of sin. He can become one of us and suffer human misery without sinning. However, that isn't a full share in human misery, I agree.

However, he may have still suffered more than the average person. Who knows?

I don't by it. Either one is a human with sin or one isn't. Unless he becomes fully human or christians become fully god, I don't see how he can relieve sin especially since he existed over 2,000 years ago.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I would view ALL the churches of Christianity as the body of Christ, not just the Roman Church. You just brought up one more objection I have to the Roman Church's egocentric claims.

Everyone who has been baptized, repented, shared in communion, and vowed that jesus saved them are the body of christ.

Those who are a part of the body of christ have already taken the sacraments (above listed).

The only thing different with the Catholic Church (Roman or not) is the Eucharist. I don't agree that only confirmed Catholics can take the Eucharist. However, the Church does say all christians are the body of christ via baptism.

They don't see denominations as a means of telling who is christian and who is not. That's a protestant thing.

We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ's prayer for us "that they may all be one" (Jn 17:21). Guidelines for the Reception of Communion​

 

[Unveiled Artist]

AMEN BROTHER!
One of the things that anti Catholic people refuse to grasp is that the church, in it's own way, has made serious strides towards elimination of that evil.
Could they do better and more? Sure. That will always be true. But the equation of good to abuse has altered hugely in recent years, especially concerning children. And it wasn't always some Vatican pronouncements, much of the change was bottom up. Parishioners have a ton of influence in the local doings of the church, at least here in the USA. The pressure for reform was huge and couldn't be swept under the rug.
Tom

That is true. I looked up the requirements for being a priest and now they have full background checks and they ask people you know about your sexual history and inclinations (that they define as). It's horrible to base the body of christ on what priests did. The Church is still the Church regardless.

 

[shunyadragon]

Everyone who has been baptized, repented, shared in communion, and vowed that jesus saved them are the body of christ.

Those who are a part of the body of christ have already taken the sacraments (above listed).

The only thing different with the Catholic Church (Roman or not) is the Eucharist. I don't agree that only confirmed Catholics can take the Eucharist. However, the Church does say all christians are the body of christ via baptism.

They don't see denominations as a means of telling who is christian and who is not. That's a protestant thing.

We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ's prayer for us "that they may all be one" (Jn 17:21). Guidelines for the Reception of Communion​

False, its also a Roman Church thing as you correctly described in a previous post. The Roman Church specifically define salvation as "Outside the Church there is no salvation" (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus). There is always the hope that those outside the church "that they may all be one" (Jn 17:21),but until this happens those outside the church of their own free will are 'NOT' saved.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

False, its also a Roman Church thing as you correctly described in a previous post. The Roman Church specifically define salvation as "Outside the Church there is no salvation" (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus). There is always the hope that those outside the church "that they may all be one" (Jn 17:21),but until this happens those outside the church of their own free will are 'NOT' saved.

How old are you? I know when I went to a Catholic retreat, one woman in her fifties said she was forbidden to read her bible.

Now, there was a recent pope (and in the link I gave you) that said those who have been baptized are considered part of the Church (as in the body/people of Christ). For example, when you go to RCIA and you have already been baptized you cannot be baptized again. They feel that you are already "saved" or in God's grace.

The sacraments of Catholicism specifically (well, they are sacred intitated acts just by a different name) are just what makes one able to take the Eucharist. One does not need the Eucharist to be christian. One needs the Eucharist to be a part of the body of Christ.

Whether we agree with this or not has no bearing on what their CCC and that website I gave you says. If you are baptized, you are saved. When you take the sacraments, you are one with the body.

That's why Catholics feel protestant are not in the "full" body because they haven't formally taken the sacraments of the Church (repentance, communion, vow to commitment, changing one's actions, living in christ). These are the sacraments.

You're thrown off by the gold.