What came before the Big Bang?

[Thief]

Is it I or we are first.

Someone had to be First.

 

[idav]

Someone had to be First.

Something has to be before that.

 

[Thief]

Something has to be before that.

Then you have chosen.....substance before it's Maker.

not good.

 

[idav]

Then you have chosen.....substance before it's Maker.

not good.

It is both at the same time. Put simply. The moment something exists it would know it. Even a creator has to exist first.

 

[Ouroboros]

It is both at the same time. Put simply. The moment something exists it would know it. Even a creator has to exist first.

Exactly.

The creator had to exist before he could think. And if the First Cause was the only and true first cause of everything, then no other causes could have existed before that First Cause, which means that God and First Cause came into existence at the very same moment. God began to exist at the same moment of First Cause. Which is also called... The Universe.

 

[`mud]

Along those scenerios:
(Unity)=Void/Singularity
(Cause)=Void/Singularity/inertia/distance
(Cosmos)=Void/energy/distance/motion/momentum
(infinity)=energy/distance/motion/momentum/
(relativity)=infinity/energy/distance/motion/momentum/time
~
Reorder these entities, in any way that makes sense
does 'time' fit here...somewhere...and what is really 'first' ?
Some of you will want to include 'God' as the unity, go ahead.
Remember.....everything must contain the entities !
Maybe some entities could be added ?
~
'mud

 

[Ouroboros]

Along those scenerios:
(Unity)=Void/Singularity
(Cause)=Void/Singularity/inertia/distance
(Cosmos)=Void/energy/distance/motion/momentum
(infinity)=energy/distance/motion/momentum/
(relativity)=infinity/energy/distance/motion/momentum/time
~
Reorder these entities, in any way that makes sense
does 'time' fit here...somewhere...and what is really 'first' ?
Some of you will want to include 'God' as the unity, go ahead.
Remember.....everything must contain the entities !
Maybe some entities could be added ?
~
'mud

Cause needs the time element (a state before, a cause, a state after. Before-after is a temporal concept). Motion, inertia, momentum includes time also. (motion=distance/time)

 

[idav]

Cause needs the time element (a state before, a cause, a state after. Before-after is a temporal concept). Motion, inertia, momentum includes time also. (motion=distance/time)

We are caused to be in time at a level relative to the eterinity god resides in. It is our separation from god that causes to be in time. In reality time isnt even passing, when we manage to bend spacetime enough we go back to the same moment and place that has always been.

 

[Ouroboros]

We are caused to be in time at a level relative to the eterinity god resides in. It is our separation from god that causes to be in time. In reality time isnt even passing, when we manage to bend spacetime enough we go back to the same moment and place that has always been.

Ultimately, I think it's something like that. Time-space-energy-etc all bent in on itself.

 

[`mud]

hey Our,
You picked on (cause), being a source of something that results in something happening, 'reaction'.
I can see why one would rule out 'void', (cause) has to come from a source, maybe from nothingness ?
I can't see anything coming from 'nothingness', it had to start from within 'singularity' somewhere, because 'a state before' was the (cause).
The 'state after' is the 'inertia' that starts the 'motion' to travel the immediate 'distance' to continue the 'motion'.
The immediancy of the states of non-action are not neccessary in my opinion. But the (cause) always is baffling, and you caught that one.
I don't see any 'inertia' after 'momentum', 'inertia' was the beginning of the results of the reaction from the (cause).
I convert the factors from {Motion, inertia, momentum includes time also. (motion=distance/time)}:
to:{energy/distance/motion/momentum/time}, but....time is not neccessarily needed because of momentum/distance=position=relativity.
Boy...I'm getting lost in here,
nuff stuff
~
'mud

 

[Ouroboros]

I can see why one would rule out 'void', (cause) has to come from a source, maybe from nothingness ?
I can't see anything coming from 'nothingness', it had to start from within 'singularity' somewhere, because 'a state before' was the (cause).

If nothing was before anything, then, at that point, nothing was everything. Perhaps nothing and everything is just the same thing?

Boy...I'm getting lost in here,
nuff stuff

LOL! Yup. I get lost in it too.

 

[godnotgod]

14

Look, and it can't be seen.
Listen, and it can't be heard.
Reach, and it can't be grasped.

Above, it isn't bright.
Below, it isn't dark.
Seamless, unnamable,
it returns to the realm of nothing.
Form that includes all forms,
image without an image,
subtle, beyond all conception.

Approach it and there is no beginning;
follow it and there is no end.
You can't know it, but you can be it,
at ease in your own life.
Just realize where you come from:
this is the essence of wisdom.


25

There was something formless and perfect
before the universe was born.
It is serene. Empty.
Solitary. Unchanging.
Infinite. Eternally present.
It is the mother of the universe.
For lack of a better name,
I call it the Tao.

It flows through all things,
inside and outside, and returns
to the origin of all things.

Tao te Ching

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/lao-tzu/works/tao-te-ching/tao.htm

The more we grasp with the rational mind, the further away we become from what we seek. There is nowhere to go to find what we seek, as we ourselves are THAT. The slightest move toward seeking is to lose it entirely, and to enter the world of dualism and maya, wherein we think that Everything and Nothing are different. You are THAT, looking at itself through your eyes. Stilling the thinking mind dissolves the concepts of Time, Space, and Causation, so that what remains is only THUS, where we can then see that:

"The universe is the Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"
Vivekenanda


2

Being and non-being create each other.
Difficult and easy support each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low depend on each other.
Before and after follow each other.

Tao te Ching

 

[Thief]

Word salad....get off the fence.

 

[Thief]

It is both at the same time. Put simply. The moment something exists it would know it. Even a creator has to exist first.

First ...before?......substance.

Spirit first.....THEN the creation.

 

[godnotgod]

Word salad....get off the fence.

Over your head wisdom at the top of the fence will appear as word salad to a simpleton, LOL...

So answer the question or get off the pot: where is "I"?

I'll get off the fence the day you go to your room. :biglaugh:

 

[godnotgod]

First ...before?......substance.

Spirit first.....THEN the creation.

You need it to be that way so you can feel secure in an uncertain world. Your mantra 'spirit first' is nothing about spirit at all, but about control of the world. For the simpleton living in terror of death and the grave, control is paramount to warm, fuzzy feelings that no matter what, a cushy afterlife awaits your gratification driven ego.

Gotcha pegged, Thief. :yes:

Checkmate!

 

[Thief]

You need it to be that way so you can feel secure in an uncertain world. Your mantra 'spirit first' is nothing about spirit at all, but about control of the world. For the simpleton living in terror of death and the grave, control is paramount to warm, fuzzy feelings that no matter what, a cushy afterlife awaits your gratification driven ego.

Gotcha pegged, Thief. :yes:

Checkmate!

No pegs or mate.

And nothing awaits you but eternal darkness.

Damn!

 

[godnotgod]

No pegs or mate.

In denial, as usual.

And nothing awaits you but eternal darkness.

Damn!

More peg:

As you cannot provide an answer to the question, you, like all typical fundies, resort to frightening others with the very thing that frightens you. It's just another way to make you feel secure and accompanied in the dark you so fear. As Alan Watts puts it:

"Fundies are like men huddles in the dark, shouting to lend comfort to one another"'

Not to worry, because:

"... the light that I was,
was the light that I saw by;
and the light that I saw by,
was the light that I was"

So. Are you now ready to answer the question:

Where is "I"?

...or will you continue to evade, which will only lead to more peg, and....

Checkmate!

 

[Thief]

In denial, as usual.



More peg:

As you cannot provide an answer to the question, you, like all typical fundies, resort to frightening others with the very thing that frightens you. It's just another way to make you feel secure and accompanied in the dark you so fear. As Alan Watts puts it:

"Fundies are like men huddles in the dark, shouting to lend comfort to one another"'

Not to worry, because:

"... the light that I was,
was the light that I saw by;
and the light that I saw by,
was the light that I was"

So. Are you now ready to answer the question:

Where is "I"?

...or will you continue to evade, which will only lead to more peg, and....

Checkmate!

'You' are hopeless.
But that's ok.

Your illusion of a checkmate suits......'you'.

 

[godnotgod]

'You' are hopeless.
But that's ok.

Your illusion of a checkmate suits......'you'.

So shall we conclude that, in spite of your persistent claim that "I" is real, you are incapable of demonstrating it's existence?

Calling yourself "I" does not make it real;

Pointing in the direction of my consciousness to indicate 'you' does not make 'you' real.

Calling a whirling body of water a 'whirlpool' does not make it a thing called a whirlpool.

Calling a flowing body of water a 'river' does not make it a thing called a river.

Everything in your body is in movement. 'You' are not an entity, but an action. At what point can this action be pinned down to call it a static "I"? It cannot. Your illusory mind only thinks it can, and because it does, it thinks it has an afterlife. It wants the illusion of self to go on forever.