What came before the Big Bang?

[Thief]

The reason there is a sense of solidity to the physical world is because of electromagnetic repulsion, and not real solid meeting solid. Matter is mostly empty space, and not solid at all. It's all about the electromagnetic repulsion. Ouch!

I have suggested banging your head on the wall til it bleeds....checking for reality.

I don't think your key board won't be strong enough.
It will break.

 

[Straw Dog]

Can you tell me what you see 'one' against?

Answering a koan with a koan? Tricky.

You're not completely off-base and others have probably had similar experiences, but it still seems like you're speculating excessively about metaphysics, with labelling the big show "consciousness". Didn't Gautama Buddha warn against this?

Maybe we both just need to continue practicing rather than jumping to conclusions.

 

[godnotgod]

This whole post is an example of philosophical delusion.

You talk of "higher consciousness", but do have any evidence that support the existence of "higher consciousness"?

But what if this "higher consciousness" is not just another one of the illusions you were warning us of?

Could you tell if this or that "higher consciousness" is real?

If you can't the differences between reality and illusion, or between "higher consciousness" and "normal consciousness" then this claim of yours - that there be "higher consciousness" become itself - self-defeating.

Higher consciousness is a spiritually-transformative experience in which the way you now see the world is completely transformed, showing you directly that what you thought is not the way things actually are. It cannot be 'proven' via ordinary reason or logic. The simplest way I can portray the difference to you is to compare your wakefulness to sleep. On the level of Sleep with Dreams (second level of conscious awareness) that world seems real to you, but upon awakening into the third level of conscious awareness, that of Waking Sleep, (which we call being awake) one realizes its illusory nature. It is the same idea when one goes from the third level to the fourth level, which is Self-Transcendence. There are at least two more levels above that. So awakening is a matter of degree.

From the point of view of higher consciousness, the third level is seen as sleep, or Identification, even though the ordinary mind thinks itself awake. That is why going from the third to the fourth level is called Awakening.

During normal sleep with dreams, you don't know about the third level. The same is true about being on the third level: you don't know (or better, 'remember') about the fourth. That's why you don't give it any credence. As far as you're concerned, you're fully awake, and there is nothing beyond the current experience. It's like what the prisoners in Plato's Cave would see as the ultimate reality, the dancing shadows on the walls of the cave. For them, the notion of a Sun is delusion.

However, we are, to varying degrees, driven to want to know if there is 'something else' to our ordinary experience on the third level of conditioned 'reality'. Some turn to religion for salvation due to their metaphysical anxiety over the 'fate' of their soul, while others turn to higher consciousness in an effort to awaken, while others turn to intellectual pursuits, such as science. The difference between higher consciousness and other pursuits, however, is that seeking comes to an end in the present.

Underneath our ordinary reality is our true nature which is stimulating our desire to seek, because there is a dissatisfaction with the way things are on the third level, and we don't know why. So we say:

"That which you are seeking is causing you to seek"

 

[godnotgod]

I have suggested banging your head on the wall til it bleeds....checking for reality.

I don't think your key board won't be strong enough.
It will break.

In either case, there is pain. Is that confirmation of reality for you?

 

[godnotgod]

Answering a koan with a koan? Tricky.

You're not completely off-base and others have probably had similar experiences, but it still seems like you're speculating excessively about metaphysics, with labelling the big show "consciousness". Didn't Gautama Buddha warn against this?

Maybe we both just need to continue practicing rather than jumping to conclusions.

Who's the one jumping to conclusions here? I only asked you what you see 'one' against. You bring up an idea, and then when I ask about it, you say I'm speculating. If you can answer my question, it will answer yours at the same time.

The Buddha's experience of Supreme Enlightenment was that of Higher Consciousness, without which he would not have been able to solve the dilemma of his suffering, and it was suffering that the Buddha was primarily focused on.

So can you answer the question about YOUR statement?

 

[godnotgod]

I personally find these waxing and waning about reality to be rather unfruitful. Especially when people try to combine some greater meaning to consciousness with it...why can't we just exist and have no purpose and enjoy our times here?

There are two kinds of 'en-joy-ment'. There is temporal joy, which, as the name implies, does'nt last, and whose counterpart is temporal sorrow. We become sad when the source of our joy is no more, such as when we lose a loved one. Most of the time, when these 'ups and downs' in life occur, we are confused. We don't understand why. For some, these undulations are more severe than for others. Rather than continue to be a cork bobbing on the ocean of life, subject to every up and down, some attempt to find a more satisfying experience. It is then that relative joy and sorrow become a study for such an individual. When it is found, a new kind of Joy comes into play, that of Absolute Joy, in which there is no opposite. This is the experience of Higher Consciousness. It's solid and real through and through, and you don't need to wait until death to experience it.

...or more simply....

 

[Slapstick]

What is this 'gift' of higher consciousness you claim to be offering?

Uh, one of humor? Since we have been talking about computers, why not post a video! Try telling this guy matter doesn't exist and is an illusion - skip to 2:45 and start from there.

[youtube]NY8KR8V1gto[/youtube]

 

[godnotgod]

Uh, one of humor? Since we have been talking about computers, why not post a video! Try telling this guy matter doesn't exist and is an illusion - skip to 2:45 and start from there.

[youtube]NY8KR8V1gto[/youtube]

Well, he obviously DOES think matter is illusory, because throughout the video, he seems convinced that he can pass one form of it through another.

The problem here isn't matter or illusion; it's that this individual's consciousness is so altered that he thinks he needs to go bulldozing the world around to make it conform to his concept of reality.

 

[Slapstick]

Well, he obviously DOES think matter is illusory, because throughout the video, he seems convinced that he can pass one form of it through another.

No he doesn’t! That was his initial problem. Matter was getting in the way of him comfortably completing his work. If you watch the initial part of the video which is what I told you to skip past, you would have noticed that matter was interfering with his comfort zone and his ability to complete his work. So he took it out on matter and let matter know how he felt about it. And I guess took the rest of the day off, probably to a bar or something.

The problem here isn't matter or illusion; it's that this individual's consciousness is so altered that he thinks he needs to go bulldozing the world around to make it conform to his concept of reality.

Correct. Just like you use the color purple in all of your posts.

 

[gnostic]

They call people sleeping or dreaming to be in subconscious state. This subconscious state is not higher consciousness.

And people in subconscious state, like dreaming, are having illusions, which often contained shards of people's memories. For you to see illusions as being real, and wakened reality as illusions, I must say that you are suffering from delusion, in which you can't distinguish reality from illusions or fantasies.

Which by the way, what does consciousness have to do with the Big Bang? No consciousness can cause the Big Bang or create the universe. To think so, would be nothing more than delusional thinking.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

There are two kinds of 'en-joy-ment'. There is temporal joy, which, as the name implies, does'nt last, and whose counterpart is temporal sorrow. We become sad when the source of our joy is no more, such as when we lose a loved one. Most of the time, when these 'ups and downs' in life occur, we are confused. We don't understand why. For some, these undulations are more severe than for others. Rather than continue to be a cork bobbing on the ocean of life, subject to every up and down, some attempt to find a more satisfying experience. It is then that relative joy and sorrow become a study for such an individual. When it is found, a new kind of Joy comes into play, that of Absolute Joy, in which there is no opposite. This is the experience of Higher Consciousness. It's solid and real through and through, and you don't need to wait until death to experience it.

...or more simply....

Uh huh...or there is just Joy which varies for different people based on their experiences and life...cause you know...life.

 

[godnotgod]

They call people sleeping or dreaming to be in subconscious state. This subconscious state is not higher consciousness.

Apparently, you did not read my post correctly. I said that sleep/dream state is not higher consciousness. Higher Consciousness is the awakened state.

And people in subconscious state, like dreaming, are having illusions, which often contained shards of people's memories.

Yes, that's what I said, but they are also asleep dreaming this 'reality' when they think they are awake.

For you to see illusions as being real, and wakened reality as illusions, I must say that you are suffering from delusion, in which you can't distinguish reality from illusions or fantasies.

I never said illusions are real. What I did say is that most people think they are awake when, in fact, they are dreaming. This level of awareness is called Identification, in which one is deluded into believing that who they are is their history and their body. When real awakening occurs, one sees clearly that who they imagined themselves to be is but fiction.

Which by the way, what does consciousness have to do with the Big Bang? No consciousness can cause the Big Bang or create the universe. To think so, would be nothing more than delusional thinking.

These shadows on the walls of Plato's Cave are the only reality. To think that something called 'the Sun' exists beyond this reality is nothing more than delusional thinking.

 

[godnotgod]

Uh huh...or there is just Joy which varies for different people based on their experiences and life...cause you know...life.

Then you're back to relative joy and relative suffering, because 'life' is always tragic at some point, unless you experience it via Absolute Joy, which is transcendent of life and death.

 

[idav]

There are two kinds of 'en-joy-ment'. There is temporal joy, which, as the name implies, does'nt last, and whose counterpart is temporal sorrow. We become sad when the source of our joy is no more, such as when we lose a loved one. Most of the time, when these 'ups and downs' in life occur, we are confused. We don't understand why. For some, these undulations are more severe than for others. Rather than continue to be a cork bobbing on the ocean of life, subject to every up and down, some attempt to find a more satisfying experience. It is then that relative joy and sorrow become a study for such an individual. When it is found, a new kind of Joy comes into play, that of Absolute Joy, in which there is no opposite. This is the experience of Higher Consciousness. It's solid and real through and through, and you don't need to wait until death to experience it.

...or more simply....

I think consiousness and non-dual awareness are contradictory terms. Consciousness entails self awareness which is the dual awareness you say is illusory.

 

[godnotgod]

I think consiousness and non-dual awareness are contradictory terms. Consciousness entails self awareness which is the dual awareness you say is illusory.

No. Higher consciousness means the dissolution of the illusory, individual self. Higher Consciousness is Universal, not individual consciousness. Being universal, it is the consciousness of the universe; of the Absolute. That is why, in the diagram I presented, it is shown as 'single point consciousness'. There is no 'self' and 'other' in Higher Consciousness. There is no 'self' aware of the 'self' in Higher Consciousness; there is only pure awareness itself, and that is Reality itself.

 

[Thief]

No. Higher consciousness means the dissolution of the illusory, individual self. Higher Consciousness is Universal, not individual consciousness. Being universal, it is the consciousness of the universe; of the Absolute. That is why, in the diagram I presented, it is shown as 'single point consciousness'. There is no 'self' and 'other' in Higher Consciousness. There is no 'self' aware of the 'self' in Higher Consciousness; there is only pure awareness itself, and that is Reality itself.

Not buying it.

At the 'point' of singularity there would be only ONE.
And He would be conscious and self aware.

He is credited for being the First to say.......'I AM!'

 

[godnotgod]

Not buying it.

At the 'point' of singularity there would be only ONE.
And He would be conscious and self aware.

He is credited for being the First to say.......'I AM!'

You need to know the rest of that statement so you can understand properly:


I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly.
I'm crying.

Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come.
Corporation tee-shirt, stupid bloody tuesday.
Man, you been a naughty boy, you let your face grow long.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob.

Mister city policeman sitting
Pretty little policemen in a row.
See how they fly like Lucy in the Sky, see how they run.
I'm crying, I'm crying.
I'm crying, I'm crying.

Yellow mother custard, dripping from a dead dog's eye.
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess,
Boy, you been a naughty girl you let your knickers down.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob.

Sitting in an english garden waiting for the sun.
If the sun don't come, you get a tan
From standing in the english rain.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob goo goo g'joob.

Expert textpert choking smokers,
Don't you think the joker laughs at you?
See how they smile like pigs in a sty,
See how they snied.
I'm crying.

Semolina pilchard, climbing up the eiffel tower.
Elementary penguin singing Hari Krishna.
Man, you should have seen them kicking edgar allan poe.
I am the eggman, They are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob goo goo g'joob goo goo g'joob.
Goo goo g'joob goo

 

[gnostic]

Apparently, you did not read my post correctly. I said that sleep/dream state is not higher consciousness. Higher Consciousness is the awakened state.



Yes, that's what I said, but they are also asleep dreaming this 'reality' when they think they are awake.



I never said illusions are real. What I did say is that most people think they are awake when, in fact, they are dreaming. This level of awareness is called Identification, in which one is deluded into believing that who they are is their history and their body. When real awakening occurs, one sees clearly that who they imagined themselves to be is but fiction.



These shadows on the walls of Plato's Cave are the only reality. To think that something called 'the Sun' exists beyond this reality is nothing more than delusional thinking.

You've been watching too Matrix movies.

 

[godnotgod]

You've been watching too Matrix movies.

So you think those dancing cave wall shadows are real, do you? You've been hypnotized...slowly....imperceptibly.... LOL.

Here is an explanation of Waking Sleep:

The Master Game, by Robert deRopp

 

[godnotgod]

Which by the way, what does consciousness have to do with the Big Bang? No consciousness can cause the Big Bang or create the universe. To think so, would be nothing more than delusional thinking.

What is delusional is to think that you can be conscious while the very universe from which you emerged, which sustains you both inside and out, and to which you will return in your entirety, is not conscious. Furthermore, you have been fooled into believing that the center of your consciousness is inside your brain, and that there is a self called "I" that pushes the world around, when, in reality, it is the universe that does you.