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What can be done to stop oppressive leftists?

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Perhaps I misspoke. By "support" I mean support for the right to demonstrate and speak their minds. I didn't mean to imply support for their views. However, one's unlikely to hold a valid opinion on an issue if unfamiliar with both sides, and what better venue for exploring opposing points of view than a college campus? As for physically fighting brownshirts or black bloc thugs on the street. You're trying to beat them at their own game. It's likely to look good for your side, no matter which side wins.
Pacifism only works if the other side respects pacifism. Fascist thugs don't respect pacifism. Letting them speak their mind is only letting them getting their message out. You don't really seem to understand the mentality of these people. They will use democratic methods in service to their cause, but they're really laughing at the fools who allow them to do so because it's really just a form of subversion. They're really pissing all over it, because they plan to destroy it. I've said before that the only language they understand is violence and that's because fascism is a doctrine of violence. It worships violence and brutality. To defeat them, you can't debate with them, because it's not rational. It's not a reasonable stance.

I'm not a pacifist and I don't believe in giving them the leeway to spread their bs. Especially as a minority who they would like to see die or at least violently oppress. They're a threat, a danger to people like me and all who value diversity. I want myself and people like myself to be safe and allowing fascists to spread their filth makes the places they're allowed to do so unsafe. It legitimizes them as if they're just another viewpoint in the democratic milieu. That's just foolishness. They want to destroy you and the classical liberal ethos you hold so dear. No one ever defeated fascists by being peaceful. History tells us that. You meet force with force.

The new breed of "alt-right" fascists know that the liberal mainstream has a quaint negative view of violence (the liberal mainstream doesn't have the tools to deal with such movements), so they're trying to make themselves look professional and mature, to an extent (the mask falls when you see their gathering grounds like that "the Right Stuff" site). They're playing on the tastes of people like you in order to present themselves in more superficially acceptable ways. That's why they rebrand themselves every so often. Instead of white supremacists, they called themselves "white nationalists". They even aligned themselves with black nationalists. But they still hate black people. Now they're "race realists", "folkish", "neo-reactionaries", etc. They stop wearing KKK robes and military outfits and put on suits. It's still the same crap. Fascism in a suit with a slick haircut is still fascism.

Oh, and screw Milo. I detest him. He needs to get a taste of what Nazi boy, Richard Spencer, got. I would lol so hard. Either way, if his buddies get into power, he'd learn what fascism really does to people like him (a gay queen with Jewish ancestry and a fetish for black men). Oh, he'll learn. He's just a self-hating buffoon with a perverted sexual fetish for that which wants to kill him (his fellow alt-rightists).

You can listen to Imagine with your head in the clouds, but this is my anthem (Heaven Shall Burn is a German far-left metal band):

Nothing, just nothing, nothing will wipe this heart out
And no one, just no one, no one will break this frontline
We are, we are, we are the violent ones
We are, we are the, we are the final resistance

We're fighting to the last
Driven by your hate
Evoked in us
No one will surrender
A storm will break the silence
This storm will break the silence

Nothing, just nothing, nothing will wipe this heart out
We are, we are the, we are the final resistance

This vengeance is justice
And justice will be done
Your end is our triumph
And the day will come
A reign of terror, an age of horror
Nothing will remain
A promise to the fallen
We'll make them feel your pain
A promise to the felons
You'll never rise again

We'll take it back
We'll take it all back
We'll take it back
We'll take it all back

This vengeance is justice
And justice will be done
Your end is our triumph
And the day will come
A promise to the fallen
We'll make them feel your pain
A promise to the felons
You'll never rise again

Nothing, just nothing, nothing will wipe this heart out
And no one, just no one, no one will break this frontline
We are, we are, we are the violent ones
We are, we are the, we are the final resistance

 
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Upaava

Member
We should consider all the people that stood around doing nothing as individuals decided to riot...The inaction and apathy of all those students speaks volumes to me.

May peace be with you, Shad,

I'm sorry that my words were misunderstood. I wasn't speaking about Berkeley; I was speaking about a larger issue, where wealthy and powerful people are using their money and influence to destabilize countries for monetary gain and to increase their control in the world.

Wikileaks releases have helped expose the methods of these billionaires, one primary method being to keep us divided, keep us fighting one another rather than uniting. They foment emotional issues and violence wherever they can, in order to manipulate us. They have a low opinion of our intelligence and how easy it is to direct us-- they use our emotions to have us unknowingly work against our own best interests of peace and liberty. These cowards secretly hide in the shadows allowing others they've bought, and otherwise corrupted, to do their bidding.

Do not fall into their traps that divide us. Make our common ideals of peace, love, and liberty, anthems to unite us, rather than fighting among ourselves. Work to save the children who are disappearing daily, who are being used for pedophilia and blood rituals by these evil people.

Do your homework-- read the Wikileaks releases and other courageous sources where people have been risking their lives, and dying, to help expose the truth.

It's time to see through those secretly working to divide and control us, to stand together as one people, one world "with liberty and justice for all."
 
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idav

Being
Premium Member
Rioters break windows, set fire to force cancellation of Breitbart editor's UC-Berkeley talk

We do all agree that we cannot allow political speech to be threatened in such a manner, correct? No one wants to see similar actions towards leftists, or, the grace of god forefend, blood in the streets. Yet, it seems those are the only places this can go, if allowed to continue.

I'm not saying stop people from protesting, be we can't let "protest" turn into this kind of wild anti-speech activity.

Where are we missing out on injecting respect for the political process and the sanctity of political speech into the ideologies of these young leftists?
Nothing can be done to stop the oppressive left from allowing freedom of religion, pro choice and equality for homosexuals and all races and genders. The oppressiveness is just too much.:eek:
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Nothing can be done to stop the oppressive left from allowing freedom of religion, pro choice and equality for homosexuals and all races and genders. The oppressiveness is just too much.:eek:
I think you got the wrong party ?.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Leftists advocate government of, by and for the people; government as a co-op, government as family values writ large.
Some Leftist do. Some advocate the complete overthrow and abolishment of the government. Myself, I promote a state based on science, as it is a concept external to and above us, and it has proven our most useful and powerful tool for guiding us.
The Left definitely have an ultra-aggressive fringe growing in their ranks and left politicians need to do a better job of denouncing and distancing themselves from said fringe.
The thing is, Bernie Sanders is the Left-most politician we have, and in all reality he isn't that far Left. Sure he's way further Left than your average Liberal, but they're only a stone's throw away from being Moderates. But there are also people like me who make Sanders look like a Centrist, and really have no "leaders" to even speak on our behalf even if we were acting up.
The left has traditionally been open to alternative lifestyles and philosophies.
Not so much. Up until the Civil Rights Movements, Liberals didn't really give a **** at all about black people or anyone else but their "own kind." This idea of the Left being an open and tolerable side is very much modern idea.
It's always supported the right of the KKK or Neo-Nazis to parade through town or speak in public.
That just isn't so. But, today, many of us on the Left do support these things.
Suppressing ideas and putting your head in the sand are not what you'd expect from liberals.
It's exactly what I'd expect of Liberals, and Conservatives, the two most easily within grasp terms of pop-politics, the easy choices for a society of "individuals" who don't think well enough to realize everyone lies to them when they tell they are a unique special individual, when we put so much emphasis on individuality, of course the biggest chunks of poor follower behavior from the two most mainstream political ideologies.
I know far-leftists don't. They're far more likely to meet them with baseball bats and steel toed boots to the head.
While it would please me greatly to meet them under said circumstances, I realize it is overall for the better of society that they be tolerated so long as they don't get too drastic. Violence is not always unavoidable. It is, however,
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Just sayin, none of the things I mentioned means a person is a pacifist.
It does so very much seem like that to me. Whenever I hear such things, most often from a Christian, it really comes down to nothing more than "How dare you oppress us by not letting us repress people!!"
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
While it would please me greatly to meet them under said circumstances, I realize it is overall for the better of society that they be tolerated so long as they don't get too drastic. Violence is not always unavoidable. It is, however,
They should never be tolerated, especially now since they're on the upswing.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
They should never be tolerated, especially now since they're on the upswing.
The problem is though where do you draw the line? As long as someone isn't explicitly calling for violence or discrimination, it's just best we not tread such a slippery slope, as censorship is a most lethal enemy of an open society.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
The problem is though where do you draw the line? As long as someone isn't explicitly calling for violence or discrimination, it's just best we not tread such a slippery slope, as censorship is a most lethal enemy of an open society.
We need hate speech laws like much of Europe has. That would be a great start. Fascism itself explicitly calls for violence and discrimination in the first place, anyway!
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
o_O
I am gonna sit here and laugh because asserting that being a right winger immediately results in mental instability is just blatantly fallacious. Mass shooters don't exactly express political preferences that are sane and reasonable.

I am REALLY reconsidering your familiarity with basic logical fallacies. Actually I am reconsidering your familiarity with basic logic.
That is not what I was getting at. I was pointing out the left doesn't have a monopoly on violence. Short of the likes of hard-line anarchists(left) and fascists(right), political ideology rarely calls for out and out violence as means. Your claim that the entirety of the left has somehow adopted a violent outlook is as baseless as the assumption that the right has. I brought up mass-shooters because it seems like those tend to be how the insane bits of the right do their thing. Brevik, Roof, the Quebec guy whos name escapes me, so on and so forth.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Pacifism only works if the other side respects pacifism. Fascist thugs don't respect pacifism. Letting them speak their mind is only letting them getting their message out.
We're not trying to influence the other side, we're trying to influence public opinion.
I'm sure Martin Luther King never expected to influence the KKK.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
I very much take issue with describing Milo simply as 'someone you disagree with' - that is normalisation of far-right rhetoric, and should not be accepted.
You are normalizing oppressing political dissent, something far more insidious than vile rhetoric. The norm should absolutely be: Whatever you believe politically, bring it out into the light.

I told @Mister Emu in my first post, if this thread was about mob movements, loss of main object, and tendencies towards pillage/attack etc, then it would be a brilliant objective discussion
Well this thread isn't about that, it is about the uniquely, in America, leftist phenomenon of organized violence in response to public political dissent.

Honestly, I do believe if Trump appoints a Supreme Court nominee that gets Obergefell v Hodges overturned then the LBGT community will be the next group to pick up violent protest.
Well, buckle up. Decent odds that one of Breyer or Ginsburg retires during Trump's Presidency. Almost guaranteed if/when he gets a second term.

I see. So creating an atmosphere of hate has nothing to do with the current problems?
Violence falls always and only on the shoulders of the perpetrators.

Some of those dissenting viewpoints should not be accepted.
That is never true. All political views should be allowed to air.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
So If you feel the need to retailate against "leftists" in general
I never said that.

I'd rather talk about this directly in terms of what personal changes you want from leftists so you- and others like you- don't feel the need defend yourself.
Unless you're one of the ones being violent or going out and being part of a crowd that allows/enables and/or encourages the violence, I'm not asking you to do anything. Other than help me understand where the development of leftists has gone wrong to produce gangs of violent thugs, which is the purpose of this thread.

It would be better if we can discuss them in a reasonable sort of way as two people having a conversation online- not just abstract identities
I'm unsure where you believe we weren't two people having a conversation online. Could you clarify what you mean and how it would change discussion?

What trends from the left do you feel would necessitate a response?
The progression from protests against someone even being able to speak, which I find distasteful at best, to violent mob behavior which is unacceptable. You can't have animals running around with weapons beating people because they disagree, they have to be shown in no uncertain terms they won't be allowed to so act. I'm afraid that one of these times someone's going to have to kill several of them to make the point.

The mainstream left used to defend the right of Nazis and the KKK to march and speak. Now there is speech that is "unacceptable".

In what ways are members of the left not accepting the existence of dissenting viewpoints?
By violently opposing their ability to even express dissenting viewpoints.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
No, I didn't.
Alright, then we both agree he was going to politically speak, as that was the purpose of his visit.

What "organized violence"?
Are you playing obtuse? The organized violence shown in the riots. A large group of people didn't show up with weapons and all dressed in black with masks as a coincidence.

Hang on one minute - we were talking about "propriety"; why did you jump from there to violent disagreement?
That is the improper way of expressing your disagreement being discussed.

So people should have free reign to shape the society we all live in, as long as they don't commit outright violence?
Ultimately yes, that is called liberty. If you could the majority of people in 3/4 of the states to agree to something in America we can make it part of or remove something from our Constitution.

Come again?
I never objected to the protest friend, only the violence.

Off the top of my head:

- appeal to the Board of the college to not allow the event.
- rent out the venue yourself so that it's not available for the event.
Both of those negate one of the propositions.

- in other cases, use governmental power to deny the event its speaker
Awful.

This is nonsense, of course: even a public institution will - and should - deny permission for events that would reflect badly on the institution.
Government venues of speech that are open to the public shouldn't restrict speech, venues open to invitation by member groups should be open to anyone who meets the invitation threshold.

Should non-Republicans have the right to join this club en masse and use their voting power to railroad the club so that it doesn't try to put on events like this in future?
What is this even supposed to connect to? The college Republicans should be able to set their membership requirements like any other group.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
However, censorship and violence is hardly something exclusive to the left.
The last time there was an organized effort originating on the right to violently shut someone's speech down?

I also believe there are more options available other than returning the favor or "blood in the streets." To insinuate those are the only available paths to dealing with such people is shortsighted at best.
It is a reality. Either the violence stops or the people they are violent against will start bringing their own weapons, and then use them.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I never said that.


Unless you're one of the ones being violent or going out and being part of a crowd that allows/enables and/or encourages the violence, I'm not asking you to do anything. Other than help me understand where the development of leftists has gone wrong to produce gangs of violent thugs, which is the purpose of this thread.


I'm unsure where you believe we weren't two people having a conversation online. Could you clarify what you mean and how it would change discussion?


The progression from protests against someone even being able to speak, which I find distasteful at best, to violent mob behavior which is unacceptable. You can't have animals running around with weapons beating people because they disagree, they have to be shown in no uncertain terms they won't be allowed to so act. I'm afraid that one of these times someone's going to have to kill several of them to make the point.

The mainstream left used to defend the right of Nazis and the KKK to march and speak. Now there is speech that is "unacceptable".


By violently opposing their ability to even express dissenting viewpoints.

The title of the thread is "what can be done to stop oppressive leftists". I'm offering the oppurtunity to have a conversation with a leftist rather than address the issue as if "the left" were some distant, alien group in society engaged in "violent mob behaviour" as "gangs of violent thugs" and as "animals running around with weapons beating people".

Doing so should also provide evidence that there are those on "the left" who are willing to engage directly with your concerns so that you don't have to be "afriad that one of these times someones going to have to kill several of them to make the point".

If people such as yourself continue to spread the view that the left is incapable of discussion and that violence may be necessary to use against us- it would be nieve of me to think that the authorities people like you empower to do so will discriminate between someone's beliefs and actions if being "leftist" is sufficent to be violent. The reverse is also true about the right so it be great to put the brakes on the paranoia and polarisation.

The conversation would go a heck of alot further if we talk- not as if the right and left are abstract and happening somewhere else to someone else- but as people who are both concerned about the threat of violence being used against each of our respective groups.

Am I making sense?
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Well this thread isn't about that, it is about the uniquely, in America, leftist phenomenon of organized violence in response to public political dissent.

Pity........ Now that would have been valuable.
Well, what about the 'rightist' phenomenon of organised violence when 'rightists' don't get what they want?
Are gun nuts 'rightists'? 'Cos when they think their guns are in any danger they all pile onto the streets with their assault rifles and camo-gear..... very intimidating. !!

I do love these words, 'Leftist', 'Islamist' etc! Such fun!
I need to learn more about tarring cultures and groups..... I guess you just take the group's name, combine it with 'extremist' and then chuck it out there!

My local model barge club holds races on the park's pond a couple of times a year. They just take friggin' control of the place................ bloomin' people....... so............
'Park's Lake Overun by Massed Bullying Bargists!'

Hey! I can do this........ ! :D
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The title of the thread is "what can be done to stop oppressive leftists". I'm offering the oppurtunity to have a conversation with a leftist rather than address the issue as if "the left" were some distant, alien group in society engaged in "violent mob behaviour" as "gangs of violent thugs" and as "animals running around with weapons beating people".

Doing so should also provide evidence that there are those on "the left" who are willing to engage directly with your concerns so that you don't have to be "afriad that one of these times someones going to have to kill several of them to make the point".

If people such as yourself continue to spread the view that the left is incapable of discussion and that violence may be necessary to use against us- it would be nieve of me to think that the authorities people like you empower to do so will discriminate between someone's beliefs and actions if being "leftist" is sufficent to be violent. The reverse is also true about the right so it be great to put the brakes on the paranoia and polarisation.

The conversation would go a heck of alot further if we talk- not as if the right and left are abstract and happening somewhere else to someone else- but as people who are both concerned about the threat of violence being used against each of our respective groups.

Am I making sense?

I think the best way to stop "oppressive" leftists or any associated violence is by getting back to the basics. The right-wing economic policies which make the rich richer, the poor poorer, and shrink the middle class are what need to be changed. The main problem with the left in recent decades is that they've allowed themselves to become distracted by social issues and have all but abandoned their economic principles. That also needs to change.

By pressing their social agenda, the left has played into the hands of the right, and as a result, they've successfully created divisions among the lower classes - black vs. white, men vs. women, etc. They might be good at raising a ruckus or disrupting college campuses, but they have little to no staying power when it comes to working class Americans. They come from completely different worlds.

It's somewhat ironic, in a way. By violently opposing a ban on Muslims, curtailed immigration, border wall, etc., they're ostensibly trying to appeal to the "bleeding heart" crowd. The implication here is that it's cruel and uncharitable for the richest nation in the world to coldly turn these refugees away. That may make perfect sense to liberals who have homes in The Hamptons, but for the average working stiff struggling to feed his family and keep a roof over their heads, it's not going to make the same impression. It's not that they're not compassionate or sympathetic, but it's often very difficult to worry about those who are far away when there's so much suffering closer to home.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Violence falls always and only on the shoulders of the perpetrators.

That is simply wrong. A victim of rape shoots her rapist, she is solely to blame?

That is the situation in a nutshell. This is a reaction to the presidents behavior. Does it make it right? Probably not, but everyone has their limits.
 
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