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What Causes the Collapse of Nations?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Gross mismanagement of natural resources. It's pretty much that every time. Humans can delude themselves into thinking they're on the top of nature all they like. Doesn't change the fact that they're utterly dependent on the rest of nature for their existence and not on the top of anything. Failure to appreciate this and manage resources properly is a recipe for inevitable collapse.
People work hard & take risks to become successful new nations.
But once firmly established, they become comfortable, & believe that success is their natural state.
They covet security & largess, paid for by the wealth & work of others. This is a recipe for decline.
But once firmly established, they become comfortable, & believe that success is their natural state.
They covet security & largess, paid for by the wealth & work of others. This is a recipe for decline.
Too big a chasm between their collective cooperation and their collective demands.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I used Jared Diamond's thesis on the Anasazi culture along with other sources in a presentation I gave a few years back. Diamond brings several factors when looking at a collapse of a culture, such as climate change and new arrivals.
In the case of the Anasazi in the Four Corners region, archaeologists discuss climate change and droughts as well the arrival of other Native American people which brought the Anasazi migration in the 12 and 13th centuries.
You've probably noticed that a main theme in the book (as Quintessence mentioned) is the mismanagement of resources, or in the cases such as the Easter Island culture the use of natural resources in a wasteful way.
If we look at history, many civilizations collapsed as they were invaded or rather as other people migrated there en masse. For example the Germanic Migration Period radically changed the demographic reality of the Western Roman Empire. By the 6th century the Western Empire was transformed with Germanic kingdoms. But of course it would be wrong to say that the migration of Germanic tribes was the sole reason for the changes in the Western Empire. There are various factors which scholars take into account, including social erosion, demographic changes in the army as Barbarian soldiers took the ranks, civil wars, and the depletion of resources beyond the levels of sustainability.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
I think inequity might be the most important thing.
Ah, when I spoke before, I was thinking of total collapses (as in population crashes and mass deaths), not the mere dispersion and breaking up of a particular civilization or culture due to sociopolitical reasons. We read chunks of Diamond's work in my environmental ethics coursework. I have the entire book because I was inspired to read it after that course, but I still haven't gotten to it yet.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Military over spending, social instability, abuse of natural resources, making more enemies than allies, social irresponsibility, and greedy and corrupt politicians. I would pretty much say much of the same reasons that applied to the fall of Rome is set in motion here in America. Only instead of being paranoid they are trying to take over the government some of them are trying and in many instances succeeding in instilling their own personal morality as law.
We are also loosing more and more rights, and coming under more heavy and constant survalence, which is making America more ripe for the taking by a dictator.
We are also loosing more and more rights, and coming under more heavy and constant survalence, which is making America more ripe for the taking by a dictator.
I think that, absent natural disaster or foreign invasion, national collapse is going to often accompany citizen disenfranchisement. The population must feel invested in the system before they will work to sustain it. National identy requires some kind of cohesion; people have to identy as part of the group in order for it to remain a viable entity.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
I'm going to have to second this.
Civilizations can survive lots of bad events, disasters and invasions... but once the people lose faith in their leaders (government/religious) abilities to rule, then things go bad.
Once a civilization loses a critical mass then it's stuck in an extinction spiral where they can't continue to maintain their cultural identity.
The fracturing of larger nations into smaller nation states is a modern example of this.
I have to admit that I wonder about our long term future, with our nations abysmally low opinion of our own governing bodies. Eventually something is going to have to change.
wa:do
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I don't know how others feel about it, but I really hope it happens within my life time. Whatever happens though, I suspect the federal government will be reduced to a mediator among the new emerging sovereign territories. Perhaps something like a European Union of sorts.
Walkntune
Well-Known Member
I quoted this from another thread.We are clearly in the dependant stage number 7.
Apr12 by Repost on SgHardtruth
“The following quote attributed to Scottish history professor Alexander Tyler in 1787, seems to portray an accurate reflection of what has occur... red during our 200+ years of existence as a democracy.
“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
•From bondage to spiritual faith;
•From spiritual faith to great courage;
•From courage to liberty;
•From liberty to abundance;
•From abundance to complacency;
•From complacency to apathy;
•From apathy to dependence;
•From dependence back into bondage
“These words were written two years before George Washington became America’s first President. There is so much truth in these words it makes one shudder, especially since the America today is clearly at stage 7. An honest appraisal of America’s downward spiral is necessary to begin the process of redemption. Americans have continually voted themselves increased benefits, dependent upon the printing presses of the Federal Reserve to sustain America’s ponzi scheme. Americans have pawned away their future and the bill will eventually come due.”
Apr12 by Repost on SgHardtruth
“The following quote attributed to Scottish history professor Alexander Tyler in 1787, seems to portray an accurate reflection of what has occur... red during our 200+ years of existence as a democracy.
“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
•From bondage to spiritual faith;
•From spiritual faith to great courage;
•From courage to liberty;
•From liberty to abundance;
•From abundance to complacency;
•From complacency to apathy;
•From apathy to dependence;
•From dependence back into bondage
“These words were written two years before George Washington became America’s first President. There is so much truth in these words it makes one shudder, especially since the America today is clearly at stage 7. An honest appraisal of America’s downward spiral is necessary to begin the process of redemption. Americans have continually voted themselves increased benefits, dependent upon the printing presses of the Federal Reserve to sustain America’s ponzi scheme. Americans have pawned away their future and the bill will eventually come due.”
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Any group collapses over time, than regroups differently, grows, falters and so the process continues.
Families collapse in the same way, as do companies and corporations, even political parties.
You could say the very earth behaves the same way, Mountains are pushed up erode, are pushed up again, sink, form new rock, in an ever changing cycle. Villages become towns, then cities , then fall into disuse. Today we dig their remains in open fields.
What we are talking about is Change.
It was reported yesterday, that The East will over take the USA and Europe combined, with in thirty years. And that in two decades China will overtake the USA financially.
The new power in the Americas will probably rise in the south.
The latest census shows that London is now only 45% white British.
Families collapse in the same way, as do companies and corporations, even political parties.
You could say the very earth behaves the same way, Mountains are pushed up erode, are pushed up again, sink, form new rock, in an ever changing cycle. Villages become towns, then cities , then fall into disuse. Today we dig their remains in open fields.
What we are talking about is Change.
It was reported yesterday, that The East will over take the USA and Europe combined, with in thirty years. And that in two decades China will overtake the USA financially.
The new power in the Americas will probably rise in the south.
The latest census shows that London is now only 45% white British.
Last edited:
AdityaMookerjee
Member
The question is not about the collapse of nations, but of civilizations. India was under the rule of powers accruing to foreign govt. The nation, as it is today, was a number of independent states, and the states had boundaries that were different at different times. Today, we are one state, and we made the British govt., leave India, not with military force. I wonder, if we are undermining the civilization, today.
The passage of time.
Reptillian
Hamburgler Extraordinaire
I blame the short human life span. The founders of nations simply have different goals and objectives than those that come after them. As goals change; as the world changes, the new people find that they have to organize their society differently to fit their needs.