what christians do

[It Aint Necessarily So]

To believe someone to be a Christian is to place a standard upon them that can never be reached in this life. That is important to understand and that is something that should still be considered the greatest honor to that perceived Christian. We all fall short of the mark. That truth is undeniable to Christians. But we strive to be a Christian like Jesus. We fight the good fight and keep the faith despite what we know about ourselves. Not the people around us but ourselves. Excluding God, any truth about a person can only really be known by that individual. Not outsiders who pretend to be God and pass judgment on others whom they can only have a fleeting idea of. The hardest thing to face is yourself because whether you admit it or not you know more than anyone else. With that knowledge will you withdraw from the temporal world and enter into the spiritual world of God? Will you seek his guidance and allow yourself to be transformed and embark on a journey that has no beginning and no end? Take care.

Will I seek guidance from Christians and follow with them? Why would I? I have no desire to detach myself from this world and seek an alternative, invisible reality, nor follow anybody. I have a worldview that suits me fine. What guidance would I want from Jesus or anybody else if I have an ideology that works?

If there was a perfect system divined in which all people were relieved of their physical and mental sufferings/hardships what place would there be for perseverance and patience? Or greater yet, faith? There would be no need for charity.

We see this kind of argument a lot. It's kind of like arguing that we need infections, without which there would be no place or need for antibiotics.

 

[idea]

I like the phrase "Work as if it all depended on you. Pray as if it all depended on God." God will always do what's best for us, but that does not mean we will always get what we think we want. Also, I believe that God is willing and ready to provide us certain blessings, which are contingent upon our asking him in faith.

always does what is best?

let's say there is someone who has been abused - their children were abused, they grew up with horror (it happens) and at the end of their life they decide they want no part in heaven because of their experiences on earth. Call it an innocent child who was abused - so they die without sin (before the age of accountability) but because of their abuse they hate father figures, and they blame g-d for not intervening. Do you think G-d did what was best in cases like this? For those who end up in outer darkness, who were not properly educated, who were pulverized into dust instead, whose trials killed rather than refined them - do you call this "doing what is best"? Explain all the souls in outer darkness, all the failures, all those who were not educated properly, who were not given experiences that helped or healed.

G-d failed everyone that is not saved.

 

[Technologicalsociety]

Faith in what? In ourselves? In our own two feet and hands? G-d won't help us because that would rob us of our character-building experiences, so really - even in religious circles, it's all up to me, myself, and I? So faith in what exactly? sounds like we are all supposed to save ourselves to me.

Are you asking me or yourself?

Will I seek guidance from Christians and follow with them? Why would I? I have no desire to detach myself from this world and seek an alternative, invisible reality, nor follow anybody. I have a worldview that suits me fine. What guidance would I want from Jesus or anybody else if I have an ideology that works?

Those are all excellent questions to ask yourself.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe what is told of the life of Jesus to be the standard.

So you don't hold to the "faith, not works" approach?

In what way do you see the life of Jesus as a high standard? I assume you're not talking about the miracle claims; I agree it would be hard for you to magically replicate loaves and fishes.

 

[syo]

If God was real, what would be wrong with waiting for miracles?

there are occasions when we can do nothing at all. then it's appropriate to wait for a miracle. but when there are conditions we can change ourselves, then miracles do nothing.

 

[syo]

What makes you or anyone an authority to define what modern Christians are?

i just say what i observe from many christians. the correct is some christians but still the number i see is many christians.

 

[syo]

There are also those who condemn Christians for not "being Christian" - for not solving the world's homeless problems, for not taking care of all their neighbors, for not fixing everything and everyone.... fixing people's problems is not how g-d works? I guess it is not how Christians work either... so what is the point of any of it?

the point is christians should be more active.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

there are occasions when we can do nothing at all. then it's appropriate to wait for a miracle. but when there are conditions we can change ourselves, then miracles do nothing.

How could an act of God do nothing?

 

[idea]

the point is christians should be more active.

perhaps Christians are just following the example of their inactive G-d.

they refuse to help so we can all gain more character, and be better refined in our fires.

 

[idea]

Are you asking me or yourself?

What do you think we should all have faith/trust in? and how do you define the fruits of that faith? In this life, is the fruit nothing more than a mindset? you can talk yourself into being peaceful and not caring - just put it in G-d's hands and don't stress about it - just a mindset with no tangible good results? is that what faith is? or do you believe there is some tangible real thing (other than mental insanity) some tangible thing that shows your faith was justified?

 

[sealchan]

Any religion should yield non-religious fruit...that is, a religion's value should be demonstrated by how it has successfully helped a believer in a specific way not confined to the language of religion itself.

• A dreamer who doesn't solve real world problems doesn't demonstrate value.
• A practical person who learns to accept injustice doesn't demonstrate value.
• A clever thinker who doesn't care about the audience for his cleverness doesn't demonstrate value.
• A prophet who doesn't make rational sense doesn't demonstrate value.

God isn't real because the Bible says so. Belief doesn't make things true because we believe.

People who rely on mono-modal systems of truth fall into tautology. If the system is complex enough then the justifications seem adequate. But to show how one's belief yields practical fruits is to begin to show the value of that truth.

Nerds, like me, are full of facts that are of no consequence or value to anyone but themselves and their sense of what is interesting. Christians are often like nerds who say things out of any practical context either to others or themselves and don't realize that they are making no value for their listeners when they talk about God or the Bible. Truth becomes shared when truth and value are shared.

Christians are like cultish fans of this fantasy superhero book called the Bible and they just get lost in their fantasy world and show no value to those who don't happen to belong to share that same cultish interest in the Bible. They unconsciously find truth and value but are utterly incapable of bringing that truth up to a level of modern consciousness rooted in the real world and in science.

 

[syo]

How could an act of God do nothing?

i mean, on occasions where humans act, god does nothing. he lets us free to act.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Telling yourself that you shouldn't expect God to answer your prayers is just another way of getting used to the truth (that he is non existant) without having to face it head on.

God lives in you if you allow him. That's what it's all about.

As for the OP. I thought modern Christians don't pray at all. And if that is a modern Christian what am I?

 

[Shushersbedamned]

I like the phrase "Work as if it all depended on you. Pray as if it all depended on God." God will always do what's best for us, but that does not mean we will always get what we think we want. Also, I believe that God is willing and ready to provide us certain blessings, which are contingent upon our asking him in faith.

I think it's silly to pray like that, like he was outside of you.

 

[Truthseeker]

Will I seek guidance from Christians and follow with them? Why would I? I have no desire to detach myself from this world and seek an alternative, invisible reality, nor follow anybody. I have a worldview that suits me fine. What guidance would I want from Jesus or anybody else if I have an ideology that works?



We see this kind of argument a lot. It's kind of like arguing that we need infections, without which there would be no place or need for antibiotics.

Technologicalsociety said: ↑

If there was a perfect system divined in which all people were relieved of their physical and mental sufferings/hardships what place would there be for perseverance and patience? Or greater yet, faith? There would be no need for charity.

We see this kind of argument a lot. It's kind of like arguing that we need infections, without which there would be no place or need for antibiotics.

The point of that was that sometimes we need adversity to develop spiritual qualities, which puts us in good stead in the next world. Antibiotics is not a spiritual quality.

 

[Scott C.]

So where's the room for human charity? I would think that if God really is giving a person what's best for him, then that person is doing fine. Any help I could give won't improve his situation... right?

Ugh. We've been here before.

 

[Scott C.]

always does what is best?

let's say there is someone who has been abused - their children were abused, they grew up with horror (it happens) and at the end of their life they decide they want no part in heaven because of their experiences on earth. Call it an innocent child who was abused - so they die without sin (before the age of accountability) but because of their abuse they hate father figures, and they blame g-d for not intervening. Do you think G-d did what was best in cases like this? For those who end up in outer darkness, who were not properly educated, who were pulverized into dust instead, whose trials killed rather than refined them - do you call this "doing what is best"? Explain all the souls in outer darkness, all the failures, all those who were not educated properly, who were not given experiences that helped or healed.

G-d failed everyone that is not saved.

Idea, I know you used to be a Mormon, so I am a little surprised that you believe this is what my church teaches. In the final analysis, come the final judgement, at that point in eternity, every soul, every son and daughter of God, will have had everything they needed, including a Savior, to go to the highest heaven. God will take into consideration every smallest detail of that persons life, what they knew, what they did not know, how they were treated, what opportunities they had, every nuance of every brain cell, every implication of every gene, every implication of the specific DNA unique to the person, the climate in which the lived, the days of sunshine, the days of rain, the sexual predator who hurt them, the loving parents who helped them, the great friends who lifted, the bullies who picked on them, the Bible that was in the house, the Koran in the house, the porn in the house, the hugging parents, the fighting parents, the food on the table, the lies they were taught, the truths they were taught, and every single word that was ever spoken to them in their entire life. Then the only qualified being in all of eternity will make a righteous judgment and every sole will be exactly where they should be with no complaints to God. That is how it works IMHO.

 

[Scott C.]

I think it's silly to pray like that, like he was outside of you.

It's just a saying. Don't over think it. It means you should work hard for what you need/want and also pray in faith. Do you find that silly?

 

[Technologicalsociety]

What do you think we should all have faith/trust in? and how do you define the fruits of that faith? In this life, is the fruit nothing more than a mindset? you can talk yourself into being peaceful and not caring - just put it in G-d's hands and don't stress about it - just a mindset with no tangible good results? is that what faith is? or do you believe there is some tangible real thing (other than mental insanity) some tangible thing that shows your faith was justified?

First. Let me start by saying that some people might read or hear the words of certain people claiming to be Christians and when those words are heard they are taken as if that person does not struggle or experience fear. I can only speak for myself so I will say that everyday there is doubt. Fear and anxiety grip me when I allow my thoughts to drift towards certain ideas and at times my spirit is shaken by events in my life. I started small but I have undoubtedly grown in my faith.

Faith in what? Faith in Christ's message for man. That faith gets me through the day and gives me the ability to understand what was incomprehensible before. I gives me the ability to give back to others when I thought I had nothing to give. Maybe some people get through their days by other means. Maybe they give of themselves to others by other means.

The fruits of the faith, as you put it, vary from believer to believer but patience is what it has given me. Patience may sound like nothing to those who have it but for someone who suffered from being without it for so long, all I can be is grateful. If the fruits are all a mindset, I can not say for certain but I would be perfectly content if they were. The rich suffer as the poor, albeit in different fashions, no pun intended, and if they have all the physical fruits this world offers then what does it say of that kind of fruit?

I don't know what people tell themselves to live in peace or to not stress out or to put it all in God's hands. I try to make the peace but do I have it? Not until I am about to go sleep. I don't choose the battlegrounds but I find myself in them nevertheless. As for the tangible results, I do see tangible results on occasion but that is not why it is to be done. 2 people can perform the same acts and one may experience those tangible results and the other may not. That is when I would think faith should make an appearance in the heart of the believer.

There should be no earthly reward for faith. Then it is not faith at all. I would gladly choose mental insanity and a full heart over mental clarity and a self-seeking heart. Again, I can only speak for myself. Take care.

 

[robocop (actually)]

this post is an excellent question.

modern christians believe that god is a magician, that will magically alter the worshiper's life. modern christians believe that, if they pray, then god will grant them every wish, like the genie in the lamp.

but that's not how god works.

god made the cosmos, and then he sent jesus christ, to show us the rules of how we should play the game of life.

modern christians do not care about the rules of how we should live our lives, and instead, they pray for miracles, genie in the lamp god.

Yes you have to play by the rules.