What Climate Change

[David T]

If the environment goes haywire, so does the economy. Neither exists in a vacuum.

FORUM VIOLATION FOR MAKING SENSE!

that may be true but until it actually happens no proof. And guess what no emperical proof means it aint scientific fact till it happens!!!! Sort of a short coming there somewhere!!!!

Not that i disagee with you just saying how we tend to think. Crazy? Uh yeah! Behavioral? Uh yeah!!! . Science is just being noah is all! He wasnt very sucessful at stopping the flood then!!!!


Symbolic think symbolic. Lol.

 

[Father Heathen]

What makes you think the reverse cant be true ? Like alarmists embellishing things past more than they actually are?

Because science is objective, and it's silly to suggest that all of the world's scientists are all in on some convoluted hoax, even though they would have nothing to gain and everything to lose from doing so.
Whereas the fossil fuel industry lobbying to protect their interests and having their pocketed politicians dupe their dopey base makes perfect sense.

 

[e.r.m.]

FORUM VIOLATION FOR MAKING SENSE!

that may be true but until it actually happens no proof. And guess what no emperical proof means it aint scientific fact till it happens!!!! Sort of a short coming there somewhere!!!!

Not that i disagee with you just saying how we tend to think. Crazy? Uh yeah! Behavioral? Uh yeah!!! . Science is just being noah is all! He wasnt very sucessful at stopping the flood then!!!!

Symbolic think symbolic. Lol.

I guess the IPCC climate and other scientists have just been sipping martinis and pina coladas with those little umbrellas, when they say they're doing science and spitting out that empirical evidence. Of course absolutely every thing they do and say is just wrong. And all the scientific discoveries and methodologies employed for over a century are just fluff. Just turn a blind eye, why don't we?

And the money being spent by the agricultural industry mentioned earlier in this thread is just based on hearsay.

 

[David T]

I guess the IPCC climate and other scientists have just been sipping martinis and pina coladas with those little umbrellas, when they say they're doing science and spitting out that empirical evidence. Of course absolutely every thing they do and say is just wrong. And all the scientific discoveries and methodologies employed for over a century are just fluff. Just turn a blind eye, why don't we?

And the money being spent by the agricultural industry mentioned earlier in this thread is just based on hearsay.

Its all a catch 22 nature wins.

On the one hand folks dont want to hear about it on the other its
science from discovery to the pump with oil. So its not that they are total luddites! Selectively head in the sand whack a mole!!!

 

[e.r.m.]

Its all a catch 22 nature wins.

Yup.

So its not that they are total luddites! Selectively head in the sand whack a mole!!!

Same is said of both sides.

 

[dianaiad]

I'm sincerely trying to understand your conclusions. Are you saying that in your opinion it's okay if 80% of humans starve because "the climate changes over time" ?

No.

Reread it. I'm NOT OK with that. THIS is what would happen if the left wing environmental extremists have their way and the human race is forbidden from burning anything, using fossil fuels, driving, flying or raising cattle (all of which idiots like AOC advocate).

What we NEED to do is to turn the criticism and the pressure, not on the USA, which is actually pretty darned responsible in this area, but on the countries that aren't: China, India, Russia (and environs).

 

[icehorse]

No.

Reread it. I'm NOT OK with that. THIS is what would happen if the left wing environmental extremists have their way and the human race is forbidden from burning anything, using fossil fuels, driving, flying or raising cattle (all of which idiots like AOC advocate).

What we NEED to do is to turn the criticism and the pressure, not on the USA, which is actually pretty darned responsible in this area, but on the countries that aren't: China, India, Russia (and environs).

Have you actually read the GND? It's not long, and it doesn't say any of what you just said.

 

[dianaiad]

Thank you for the rant.
First I am a conservative. When I speak of conservatives, for obvious reasons, I don't demonize them. I speak from a pragmatic historical perspective. I'm on board with most conservative ideals. Not this one though because I believe the science pointing to "global warming" is not perfect, but overwhelming.
Second, the change from "Global warming" to "Climate change" has been falsely hijacked by conservatives and blamed upon liberals, even though it's conservatives and their PR machine who made the change. The term "Climate change" was originally used to replace the scarier term "Global warming", in order to water down the issue. "Climate change" was more vague and moldable and therefore easier for non-believing politicians to manipulate than the more direct "Global warming".
Now, conservatives have turned it on it's head and have been saying that it's the "liberals" who changed it from global warming to climate change, for whatever reason. No it wasn't.

Third, only when people don't believe in things do they come up with all sorts of obstacles against it. Global warming amelioration does not have to cause catastrophe (I'm not including AOC). Those who accept it are indeed looking to integrate solutions into society and economy. Deniers simply say making any efforts to slow "Global warming" will unavoidably destroy society so ignore it altogether. Cover my eyes, plug my hears, and scream as loud as I can, I won't hear it.

Fourth, politics don't matter. Either the science and the problem with C02 & methane is real or it is not. And if it is, (and I believe it is), we'd better make efforts because otherwise, the changes are beyond what would otherwise occur naturally, and it will not naturally return to cooling.

The problem is, the people who 'need to make efforts' are the people who AREN'T. The USA has been doing it's level best to be responsible in this area...and succeeding...very well. It is assinine to go after the US as THE VILLAIN, when we absolutely are not, and are, indeed, about the only nation on the planet that pays more than lip service to this.

 

[e.r.m.]

No.

Reread it. I'm NOT OK with that. THIS is what would happen if the left wing environmental extremists have their way and the human race is forbidden from burning anything, using fossil fuels, driving, flying or raising cattle

Either the science behind C02 & methane and global warming is correct or it's not. If it is (and I believe it is) then we need to replace the burning of fossil fuels (not just forbid it).

(all of which idiots like AOC advocate).

She's not helping things.

What we NEED to do is to turn the criticism and the pressure, not on the USA, which is actually pretty darned responsible in this area, but on the countries that aren't: China, India, Russia (and environs).

The U.S. has been doing very well with the traditional environmental issues. Not so much with the invasive fish species.
The U.S. hasn't done well with global warming. With the impending crisis, it's illogical to say I'm not going to do anything while things gets worse, until they do their part. What's logical is "We're going to do our part and put pressure on China, India, and Russia to do their part." We just don't have the time to play around like this.

 

[dianaiad]

Either the science behind C02 & methane and global warming is correct or it's not. If it is (and I believe it is) then we need to replace the burning of fossil fuels (not just forbid it).

this is true. I have solar panels on my house. There are many other ways of generating energy that do not involve burning fossil fuels. I'm all for 'em.

She's not helping things.

Ya THINK?

The U.S. has been doing very well with the traditional environmental issues. Not so much with the invasive fish species.
The U.S. hasn't done well with global warming. With the impending crisis, it's illogical to say I'm not going to do anything while things gets worse, until they do their part. What's logical is "We're going to do our part and put pressure on China, India, and Russia to do their part." We just don't have that time to play around like this.

We are doing the first part...'doing our part.' I'm not suggesting that we STOP looking for energy alternatives and start stripmining, then burning, all the coal in the Apalachians. We are NOT doing the second part, that is, putting pressure on anybody else.

In fact, what I see in the environmental extremists is the most incredible case of hubris that can be imagined; as if the USA can, all by itself, fix this if we only...what...stopped flying, killed off all the cattle, stopped driving, etc.,etc.

Because we can't. And 'they' aren't. Or rather, what 'they' are doing is continuing to do all the environmentally 'bad' things while pointing their fingers at US.

Except...WE aren't the ones doing all the damage. WE are the only folks who seem to be serious about fixing it.

 

[David T]

Yup.
Same is said of both sides.

And that is exactly why i am on RF. its way way deeper than simply bad farming practices. And poor recycling practices.

 

[e.r.m.]

this is true. I have solar panels on my house. There are many other ways of generating energy that do not involve burning fossil fuels. I'm all for 'em.



Ya THINK?



We are doing the first part...'doing our part.' I'm not suggesting that we STOP looking for energy alternatives and start stripmining, then burning, all the coal in the Apalachians. We are NOT doing the second part, that is, putting pressure on anybody else.

In fact, what I see in the environmental extremists is the most incredible case of hubris that can be imagined; as if the USA can, all by itself, fix this if we only...what...stopped flying, killed off all the cattle, stopped driving, etc.,etc.

Because we can't. And 'they' aren't. Or rather, what 'they' are doing is continuing to do all the environmentally 'bad' things while pointing their fingers at US.

Except...WE aren't the ones doing all the damage. WE are the only folks who seem to be serious about fixing it.

Fabulous all the way around.

I think the U.S. can do more with regard to the invasive fish that's taking over our waterways and global warming.

 

[e.r.m.]

Look at this....

The Barrage of Bad News About Climate Change Is Triggering 'Eco-Anxiety,' Psychologists Say


"Eco-Anxiety".......

Well I'll be.

Bad Climate change will also trigger eco-anxiety.