What comes next when you lose faith in democracy

[Laika]

Trump is bad enough, but my state and city made nothing but terrible, uneducated decisions. I've always had a problem with things like juries: uneducated and easily manipulated individuals choosing a man's future. This is ten times worse. I have absolutely zero faith on a system that just lets every uneducated, bigoted, manipulated idiot be involved in such big decisions. The problem is I've never considered an alternative. I respect individuality and freedom, I'm no fascist or totalitarian. Is there a path away from democracy that doesn't run the risk of becoming a monster?

I think Your asking the wrong question, as the more interesting one is why we are so afraid of our own humanity that we believe we risk becoming monsters by the exercise of power?

We say it is based on evidence but If humans are by definition corrupt- any system created by humans is also corrupt. But then all our ideals and systems -past, present and future- are corrupt. As logically would also be the passions and desires behind them, no matter how sincere, how noble or heroic, or even successful. All pleasure derived from the pursuit or exercise of power is demonised as a sin. It is a legacy of treating the pursuit of power as immoral because it usurps a "higher authority".

So which is the illusion: Are our ideals unachievable or does the belief in the inevitability of human corruption betray the irrationality and hypocrisy of those professed ideals?

Given how illogical it is to believe human beings are by definition corrupt, evil and monstrous, I lean more towards the latter.

 

[Parchment]

Trump is bad enough, but my state and city made nothing but terrible, uneducated decisions. I've always had a problem with things like juries: uneducated and easily manipulated individuals choosing a man's future. This is ten times worse. I have absolutely zero faith on a system that just lets every uneducated, bigoted, manipulated idiot be involved in such big decisions. The problem is I've never considered an alternative. I respect individuality and freedom, I'm no fascist or totalitarian. Is there a path away from democracy that doesn't run the risk of becoming a monster?

Do you need a hug? approach papas throne

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is it now considered 'progressive' to call for the disenfanchisement of mostly poor, and disproportionately poor minority citizens?

It's to eliminate the vote of idiots who have no idea what is going on. To purge the electorate of those who want children to learn Creationism over TOE because evolution is "just a theory," to cleanse votes of those who want to place religious hatred above civil liberties, and get rid of people who vote based entirely on what their biased media sources tell them (which was numerous lies about Clinton this time). The idiot down the road who has a big sign that says "Vote for Trump and save our guns" probably shouldn't be able to vote because Hillary has never said she's coming for our guns, and this man is being guided by irrational fear and casting a vote based on a lie. People are stupid, and they should not be able to put society and the world at danger because they don't know the difference between a Liberal and Progressive, if you think it's a Constitutional right to overthrow the government, or if you think all the Founding Fathers were Bible thumping Christians who wanted America to be ran in accordance to Christian principles, those types should not be allowed to vote.
And, notice I didn't just say voters. Morons like Rick Perry would not be allowed to run for office since he couldn't even get when America was founded right. Pence wouldn't be allowed either with his prejudice towards the LBGT community and vehement science denial.

 

[1137]

Do you need a hug? approach papas throne

As much as I love saying "I told you so," I hope none of us, Trump voters included, have to ever experience the full, awful potential of our situation.

 

[McBell]

I've been noticing a lot of this. I have to wonder what it is that seems to make so many people here believe that they are smarter/more informed than over half the voters in the US. Yes the majority of voters didn't agree with your position. Does that mean democracy has failed because stupid and uninformed people won? If Trump is the most narcissistic person in politics, than I think the people here who believe their opinion to be the only wise and informed opinion to make, take a close second.

I understand that many democrats are upset at the loss after having had 8 years of presidency in their favor. But don't begrudge your fellow voter the respect of a thinking human being.

Seems to me that their complaining actually demonstrates that democracy does work.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think Your asking the wrong question, as the more interesting one is why we are so afraid of our own humanity that we believe we risk becoming monsters by the exercise of power?

For me, it's not being afraid of our own humanity, but being rather sick and ****ing tired of Christian Conservatives wanting to write my rights and liberties out of existence, and all they have to do is just follow the "democratic process."
I actually met a mother and son today (both black), and the poor boy was too scared to go to school because Trump supporters have been nasty and unfortunately empowered in a way that no group of haters ever should (and, do keep in mind, the Klan does have an active presence here). America royally screwed up this time, but not just for America, but even for global markets and currencies (including our own in America) to take a dive.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Seems to me that their complaining actually demonstrates that democracy does work.

Really, I see complaining as nothing more than "wish in one hand, crap in the other, and see which one fills first." Complaining is often a good starting point, but all so very often it starts and stops there.

 

[McBell]

Really, I see complaining as nothing more than "wish in one hand, crap in the other, and see which one fills first." Complaining is often a good starting point, but all so very often it starts and stops there.

Yes, I agree with you.
However, my point was the reason for the complaining, not the complaining itself.

 

[Parchment]

As much as I love saying "I told you so," I hope none of us, Trump voters included, have to ever experience the full, awful potential of our situation.

For the time being long after my physical death. I am in my twilight of my years or so it seems and I hope to some degree that my thoughts may influence and inspire some to carry on the works, in this end I feel have been redeemed in some form or another with the rise of the right in Europe and the election of Trump in 2016 and Marine Le Pen in 2017

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For the time being long after my physical death. I am in my twilight of my years or so it seems and I hope to some degree that my thoughts may influence and inspire some to carry on the works, in this end I feel have been redeemed in some form or another with the rise of the right in Europe and the election of Trump in 2016 and Marine Le Pen in 2017

Don't forget, the last time we saw such a rise in the Right, and especially Nationalism, we got the Fascists, Nazis, and a terrible war out of it.

 

[Parchment]

Don't forget, the last time we saw such a rise in the Right, and especially Nationalism, we got the Fascists, Nazis, and a terrible war out of it.

You seem a cheap suit on the rack playing on the fear mongerering playlist, tits or no tits you all seem to be playing that same old familiar tune. I wanted more from you but we will see what we will get, I am not optimistic.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You seem a cheap suit on the rack playing on the fear mongerering playlist, tits or no tits you all seem to be playing that same old familiar tune.

It's called seeing what is happening today and saying "oh, look, it looks similar to the early/mid 20th century Europe."

 

[Parchment]

It's called seeing what is happening today and saying "oh, look, it looks similar to the early/mid 20th century Europe."

Fear mongering you, you seem so dog whistle trained, hopefully you don't get shocked by the electric fence wires others put in place to control you but it's o.k.- I am not your enemy.

 

[Scuba Pete]

so many people here believe that they are smarter/more informed than over half the voters in the US.

Why so ignorant? Clinton has won the popular vote. That means that 200K more people voted for her than for the bully bigot.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

I have to wonder what it is that seems to make so many people here believe that they are smarter/more informed than over half the voters in the US.

It might just be because 40% USA disbelieve in evolution, 40% believe global warming is a hoax, and 30% are Christian fundamentalists. The GOP draws heavily on all three of these groups.

 

[Milton Platt]

Trump is bad enough, but my state and city made nothing but terrible, uneducated decisions. I've always had a problem with things like juries: uneducated and easily manipulated individuals choosing a man's future. This is ten times worse. I have absolutely zero faith on a system that just lets every uneducated, bigoted, manipulated idiot be involved in such big decisions. The problem is I've never considered an alternative. I respect individuality and freedom, I'm no fascist or totalitarian. Is there a path away from democracy that doesn't run the risk of becoming a monster?

People always try to catagorize governing schemes into neat little catagories.......but there are all sorts of gradients in between. You do not have to have an absolute democracy, or an absolute monarchy, or an absolute socialism, etc. Those things can sometimes be blended.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Fear mongering you, you seem so dog whistle trained, hopefully you don't get shocked by the electric fence wires others put in place to control you but it's o.k.- I am not your enemy.

Lots of things look similar to something else, it doesn't make it necessarily so. But, at the same time, it sometimes does have a similar outcome. And, indeed, factually, the last time we saw such a rise in far-Right politics and nationalism things turned out badly for entire nations and millions of people. That's called "history." It's also no secret that Trump wants to do things that only dictators do.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

It might just be because 40% USA disbelieve in evolution, 40% believe global warming is a hoax, and 30% are Christian fundamentalists. The GOP draws heavily on all three of these groups.

Those look like pretty skewed polls to me - they happen apparently! I'd give the American people- the most scientifically productive on the planet, a little more credit. Nowhere near 60% believe in evolution, according to Gallup- belief in Darwinian evolution runs about 20%.- still scary to most of us- but it's mainly high school educated or less, most people gain more scientific understanding/ skepticism later in life. Climastrology is dead last in people's concerns- somewhere behind invasion from Mars? Again those of us old enough to live through 'global cooling' are a little more concerned with tangible problems

 

[Yerda]

Is there a path away from democracy that doesn't run the risk of becoming a monster?

I understand a lot of people are disappointed right now but this kind of thinking is madness.

 

[Perditus]

I understand a lot of people are disappointed right now but this kind of thinking is madness.

People are running on hysteria right now.

The only thing to do is ride it out.

What blows me away is how ignorant the young are as to the presidential electoral process.

Their protests are absurd.