What convinced you that Evolution is the truth?

[YoursTrue]

"Spinoza's God" is whom you call "God".



Probably what's called "contemplative prayer", which is my main form of prayer btw.

Thank you for your answer. I won't get "into it" now, but I appreciate your answer.

 

[YoursTrue]

"Spinoza's God" is whom you call "God".



Probably what's called "contemplative prayer", which is my main form of prayer btw.

Except to say that I doubt I call Spinoza's God my God. But again, I appreciate your kind response to my question.

 

[metis]

Except to say that I doubt I call Spinoza's God my God.

Why not? Maybe it's the same God but just with different interpretations and opinions. Spinoza's God was a creator-God that everything came from, so is yours different?

But again, I appreciate your kind response to my question.

Ditto, my friend.

 

[YoursTrue]

Why not? Maybe it's the same God but just with different interpretations and opinions. Spinoza's God was a creator-God that everything came from, so is yours different?

I know he was excommunicated from the Jewish group he initially was part of, right? I may try to read more about him. In fact (yes my bad memory comes into play here,) I placed a hold on two biographies of him yesterday at my library. So hopefully I can get through at least one of the books about him

 

[metis]

I know he was excommunicated from the Jewish group he initially was part of, right?

Yep, and then mostly met with Christians. However, some of the felt he was too "far out".

I may try to read more about him. In fact (yes my bad memory comes into play here,) I placed a hold on two biographies of him yesterday at my library. So hopefully I can get through at least one of the books about him

Good. The best imo is "A Book Forged In Hell" by Nadler. Don't let the title scare ya.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yep, and then mostly met with Christians. However, some of the felt he was too "far out".



Good. The best imo is "A Book Forged In Hell" by Nadler. Don't let the title scare ya.

Ok... I'll look for that one too. Hell doesn't scare me except I have a little problem. I don't want to die. (Smiling here...)

 

[YoursTrue]

Later. ...

 

[Saved by grace 2]

I’ll tell you one thing: Christendom has built a horrible reputation; they have failed big time in adhering to Christ’s commands… they are very blood guilty, for one thing.

What in your opinion are the commands Christians fail to adhere to?

 

[YoursTrue]

What in your opinion are the commands Christians fail to adhere to?

I hope this sheds some light on the subject. Luke chapter 10 goes into that somewhat. See what you think, I'm sure you know the illustration:

25And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” 27And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” 28And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

So Jesus answered the question that way. But then ...

29But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” 30Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. 31Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. 32So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. 34He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ 36Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?” 37He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” And Jesus said to him, “You go, and do likewise.”

Now Jesus knew that the Samaritans were not loved by the Jews. So he used that as an illustration to the one questioning him, showing him more about loving one's neighbor.

 

[Saved by grace 2]

I hope this sheds some light on the subject. Luke chapter 10 goes into that somewhat. See what you think, I'm sure you know the illustration:

25And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” 27And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” 28And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

So Jesus answered the question that way. But then ...

29But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” 30Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. 31Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. 32So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. 34He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ 36Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?” 37He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” And Jesus said to him, “You go, and do likewise.”

Now Jesus knew that the Samaritans were not loved by the Jews. So he used that as an illustration to the one questioning him, showing him more about loving one's neighbor.

Yes Sir, I know the the comand and the parable, but to claim I love perfectly like I am commanded would be a lie. I thank you for reminded me. I can see where I have personally come across unloving and I ask for forgiveness. I am reminded of something else Jesus said, where he said they will know you are my disciples "by your Love one for another"

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes Sir, I know the the comand and the parable, but to claim I love perfectly like I am commanded would be a lie. I thank you for reminded me. I can see where I have personally come across unloving and I ask for forgiveness. I am reminded of something else Jesus said, where he said they will know you are my disciples "by your Love one for another"

Certainly. We ALL need forgiveness for our sins. It isn't a one time deal. Every day Jesus taught his disciples to ask for forgiveness. Some things take longer than others. I can't say there are provisions or limitations yet. I'm sure that God is pleased when we pray for forgiveness even if we don't know everything we did wrong in God's eyes. The law of Moses stipulated life for life in certain cases. I'll wait and keep looking forward to the future. Knowing that God is love. Nice talking with you, @Saved by grace 2.

 

[Saved by grace 2]

Certainly. We ALL need forgiveness for our sins. It isn't a one time deal. Every day Jesus taught his disciples to ask for forgiveness. Some things take longer than others. I can't say there are provisions or limitations yet. I'm sure that God is pleased when we pray for forgiveness even if we don't know everything we did wrong in God's eyes. The law of Moses stipulated life for life in certain cases. I'll wait and keep looking forward to the future. Knowing that God is love. Nice talking with you, @Saved by grace 2.

This Perfect Love,................. I have been a believer for many years and still fall miserably short of truly showing this Supernatural Love! And love is what we were created for, to first love God, with the Love that he offers and gives us thru Christ Jesus, and then to give it away to others.

I know God is many amazing awesome powerful things! He is Holy, Righteous, All Powerful, All knowing, He upholds all things by the word of his Power, He is all that is True in the universe for he is the author of all living things, and yet the Apostle John's Bold proclamation defining who he is says "GOD IS LOVE!"

And God didn't just say he loves us, but he demonstrated his Love for us that even when we are at our worst, our farthest away from his Ways, his truth, his likeness, Christ Died for US. I don't fully understand the immense power of this love, but I, with my whole being desire to be so much like him! In every way, to die to self, and live for Christ Jesus. to have Christ live in me and thru me is the greatest hope!

And another matter I fail to understand is why anyone would choose not to want to KNOW Him, to follow and seek after a God that would offer such a great Love. Who's only will for us now is that all would Believe and turn back to him, for forgiveness of sins, which is absolutely necessary for reconciliation back to our creator, and then, provide for us a new start, a redo, and full restoration from what was lost thru our first parents.
It truly is incomprehensible for me to understand that!

 

[YoursTrue]

This Perfect Love,................. I have been a believer for many years and still fall miserably short of truly showing this Supernatural Love! And love is what we were created for, to first love God, with the Love that he offers and gives us thru Christ Jesus, and then to give it away to others.

I know God is many amazing awesome powerful things! He is Holy, Righteous, All Powerful, All knowing, He upholds all things by the word of his Power, He is all that is True in the universe for he is the author of all living things, and yet the Apostle John's Bold proclamation defining who he is says "GOD IS LOVE!"

And God didn't just say he loves us, but he demonstrated his Love for us that even when we are at our worst, our farthest away from his Ways, his truth, his likeness, Christ Died for US. I don't fully understand the immense power of this love, but I, with my whole being desire to be so much like him! In every way, to die to self, and live for Christ Jesus. to have Christ live in me and thru me is the greatest hope!

And another matter I fail to understand is why anyone would choose not to want to KNOW Him, to follow and seek after a God that would offer such a great Love. Who's only will for us now is that all would Believe and turn back to him, for forgiveness of sins, which is absolutely necessary for reconciliation back to our creator, and then, provide for us a new start, a redo, and full restoration from what was lost thru our first parents.A
It truly is incomprehensible for me to understand that!

As a comfort, we simply cannot succeed in showing perfect love. The demonstration of this seems to me to be in part with the Israelites. They regularly went to the temple to offer sacrifices for sin. They had to acknowledge they were sinners. In fact the goat was sent into the wilderness to demonstrate there were sins they (we) don't even KNOW we commit. But, one day this will not be, and Jesus paid the price that God accepted instead of the constant offering of other sacrifices at the temple. One way we know this is because the Bible tells us that at Revelation 21:1-5, letting us know that one day life is going to be far better and happier than it is now.
There have been many disasters, both personally and in the name of religion that would cause a person to turn off to the concept of God. For instance, someone wished me a happy Easter. Now we know there are various ways people and religious organizations celebrate Easter. I have not always been a believer. So before I understood some things, I looked at Easter as a children's tale, with bunny rabbits and chocolate eggs. But now I know more about that, and that it is completely offsetting to celebrate it. I hope you understand what I am saying.
Thank you for your comments.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As a comfort, we simply cannot succeed in showing perfect love. The demonstration of this seems to me to be in part with the Israelites. They regularly went to the temple to offer sacrifices for sin. They had to acknowledge they were sinners. In fact the goat was sent into the wilderness to demonstrate there were sins they (we) don't even KNOW we commit. But, one day this will not be, and Jesus paid the price that God accepted instead of the constant offering of other sacrifices at the temple. One way we know this is because the Bible tells us that at Revelation 21:1-5, letting us know that one day life is going to be far better and happier than it is now.
There have been many disasters, both personally and in the name of religion that would cause a person to turn off to the concept of God. For instance, someone wished me a happy Easter. Now we know there are various ways people and religious organizations celebrate Easter. I have not always been a believer. So before I understood some things, I looked at Easter as a children's tale, with bunny rabbits and chocolate eggs. But now I know more about that, and that it is completely offsetting to celebrate it. I hope you understand what I am saying.
Thank you for your comments.

I disagree. Though a big part of the story is Jesus's torture and death on the cross the important part is his resurrection and far more than Christmas, which is based on the self contradicting and mythical tales in Matthew and Luke, which is only about the birth of Jesus Easter is about why Christians have the hope that they natter on about so often. If Christianity is based upon any one single event that event is Easter. Why it is not celebrated more never made sense to me.

 

[Saved by grace 2]

If Christianity is based upon any one single event that event is Easter. Why it is not celebrated more never made sense to me.

This is true! All of Christianity hinges on the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus, which many call Easter! I prefer to call it, what we Christians celebrate it for "Resurrection Day" Without him doing this for all mankind, we have no forgiveness of sins.
Individually, We Believers ,celebrate this hope, every day in one way or another, for this event alone gives us hope that by believing in Jesus, Confessing him as Lord, and believing in our hearts that God raised him from the dead, WE ARE SAVED! God, then thru this free gift of Salvation declares us righteous. This alone grants us New Life, fellowship with the Father and the Son, and an eternity of living and serving him in his Kingdom as was eluded to in YoursTrue's post, Revelation 21:1-5
Communion, is regularly (weekly, bi-weekly, monthly) done corporately within the Church. This is done specifically for the purpose of remembering the sacrifice Jesus made for us and the ushering in of a NEW Everlasting Covenant, cancelling out the one Which YoursTrue mentioned regarding the Israelites and the Sinai covenant the God established thru Moses. It is the receiving of the body of Christ, by ceremoniously eating the bread (the giving up himself, his body) and drinking the wine which symbolizes the Blood he shed for the forgiveness of sins.
Preaching, teaching, exhorting. This too is done often and those gifted with expounding on these truths, encourage and remind their congregations who we are in Christ! Also, the call for those who have not yet known this Great Salvation thru Jesus death, burial and resurrection, are invited to join with the Saved!

 

[YoursTrue]

Why not? Maybe it's the same God but just with different interpretations and opinions. Spinoza's God was a creator-God that everything came from, so is yours different?

Reviewing a few posts.
Not sure if I answered this and I am taking a biography of Spinoza from the library, hopefully I'll learn something, but -- so far it seems to me that Spinoza's God is rather impersonal or uncaring for his worshippers and individuals. Maybe I'm wrong about his viewpoint, so hopefully I can glean some points from the biographies. I also do understand rather well Spinoza's resistance to what he grew up with and I might also say he must have been pretty brave to stand up against the strong forces of his community.
Yet I know how my God has helped me (personally), how He approached me after a prayer (by means of an individual who cared enough about me to try to help me understand more about God).

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What in your opinion are the commands Christians fail to adhere to?

It’s not so much individual Christians, aka those who are labeled the “laity”. They just follow the examples set by their leaders, aka the clergy, the leaders of Christendom.

What I wrote, was that they’re blood guilty.

Did not Jesus say even to “love your enemy”? (Matthew 5:44) What about John 13:34,35? But grief, Christendom hasn’t even loved their brother! Basically from its inception, in the day of Constantine the Great, Christendom has supported the State in its conflicts … even causing some of the bloodshed!

So are they Christ’s “friends”?
(John 15:14) No.

Yes Sir, I know the the comand and the parable, but to claim I love perfectly like I am commanded would be a lie. I thank you for reminded me. I can see where I have personally come across unloving and I ask for forgiveness. I am reminded of something else Jesus said, where he said they will know you are my disciples "by your Love one for another"

Again, this is not directed at you.

But this is about more than just not ‘loving perfectly’. This is about Catholics slaughtering Catholics, and Protestants slaughtering Protestants. With the endorsement of their respective organizations.
Reminds me of Titus 1:16.

You wrote: “I am reminded of something else Jesus said, where he said they will know you are my disciples "by your Love one for another"” John 13:34,35

Yes, exactly! Jesus, with his God-given wisdom, cut through hashing over all the doctrine & dogma of the 30,000+ sects of Christendom, by providing the key to search for to help one in finding which religion has his approval: look for Godly love (Gal. 5:22,23), transcending all national, political, and racial barriers.

Good night, my cousin.

 

[metis]

so far it seems to me that Spinoza's God is rather impersonal or uncaring for his worshippers and individuals.

Basically, yes. He believed that we need to realize the world as we see it and try to make it a better place, which is also my position.

and I might also say he must have been pretty brave to stand up against the strong forces of his community.

Amen to that!

Yet I know how my God has helped me (personally), how He approached me after a prayer (by means of an individual who cared enough about me to try to help me understand more about God).

As some know here, I also had a long serious of "premonitions" [in lack of a better word for them] that lasted over two years and really shook me up and brought some changes to my life and beliefs, so I'm sure there's "Something" to this. My old Signature Statement reflected that: "Whatever caused the universe/multiverse I call 'God' and pretty much just leave it at that".

 

[Saved by grace 2]

It’s not so much individual Christians, aka those who are labeled the “laity”. They just follow the examples set by their leaders, aka the clergy, the leaders of Christendom.

That is a very broad statement that cannot be unpacked in a few sentences. I whole heartedly agree though that many terrible atrocities have been perpetrated on the world in the name of Christianity thru out the centuries since Jesus first began with 11 men. You mentioned a few.
I even see things going on today by those who call themselves Christians and in one sense I am angered by this, because what generally is shown to those outside the Church is just that! Only those things that are hateful, and untrue to True Christian doctrine.

But I see what is going on outside the public eye, real Christ centered men and women, and by the way There truly are many Church Leaders who truly Love Christ and live what they preach.

And for those whom are hating, lying, teaching false doctrine, hypocrites, etc. whether they be Leaders or Laymen. Our Lord warned and prophesied this would happen.

Luke 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's. clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves

I believe Jesus is speaking of those within the Church.

And The same with the Apostle Peter

2 Peter 2:3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

And these are just a couple of scriptures Jesus, the apostles and Old testament prophets warned us about that even those from within would decieve, lie, distort and attempt to destroy the Body of Christ.

But I take comfort that Jesus said he will build his Church, not men and that even the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it.

The Catholic Church became so far away from the WORD of GOD that God stepped in and thru one Man's courage to stand up against false doctrines, began a reformation within the Church. And I believe that is crucial for us to understand. He did not do away with the Church, but brought us Back to the Truth of His Word.

And regrettably that is repeating itself today, with certain denominations, leaders, and Laity. So we are to be reminded, if we stray from the
WORD (Written). and JESUS THE WORD of God (LIVING). We will certainly become Decieved.

Be Blessed in knowing the Truth!

 

[YoursTrue]

That is a very broad statement that cannot be unpacked in a few sentences. I whole heartedly agree though that many terrible atrocities have been perpetrated on the world in the name of Christianity thru out the centuries since Jesus first began with 11 men. You mentioned a few.
I even see things going on today by those who call themselves Christians and in one sense I am angered by this, because what generally is shown to those outside the Church is just that! Only those things that are hateful, and untrue to True Christian doctrine.

But I see what is going on outside the public eye, real Christ centered men and women, and by the way There truly are many Church Leaders who truly Love Christ and live what they preach.

And for those whom are hating, lying, teaching false doctrine, hypocrites, etc. whether they be Leaders or Laymen. Our Lord warned and prophesied this would happen.

Luke 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's. clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves

I believe Jesus is speaking of those within the Church.

And The same with the Apostle Peter

2 Peter 2:3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

And these are just a couple of scriptures Jesus, the apostles and Old testament prophets warned us about that even those from within would decieve, lie, distort and attempt to destroy the Body of Christ.

But I take comfort that Jesus said he will build his Church, not men and that even the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it.

The Catholic Church became so far away from the WORD of GOD that God stepped in and thru one Man's courage to stand up against false doctrines, began a reformation within the Church. And I believe that is crucial for us to understand. He did not do away with the Church, but brought us Back to the Truth of His Word.

And regrettably that is repeating itself today, with certain denominations, leaders, and Laity. So we are to be reminded, if we stray from the
WORD (Written). and JESUS THE WORD of God (LIVING). We will certainly become Decieved.

Be Blessed in knowing the Truth!

I've been reading a little about Spinoza. Are you at all familiar with his history?