What Day was Jesus Crucified?

[Beta]

you can lead a horse to water...

Twice I have posted relevant scriptures to answer your question, seems some horses don't want to drink.:no:

 

[smokydot]

no mention of any meal there...

The meal begins in Jn 13:2 and goes for five chapters (13-17), and then he is arrested in chp 18.

 

[smokydot]

The Passover according to the book of Mark (supposedly the 1st of the four gospels) structures the Passover in a weird way from what I've been reading here in this thread. What I find most interesting was Yeshua was crucified on that Friday morning and taken down before the Sabbath. After he is taken down the scripture seems to imply he was visited the next day after the Sabbath. This is where I'm having trouble understanding the 3 days 3 nights.

He rose on the third day.
He died on Friday and rose on Sunday.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

He rose on the third day.
He died on Friday and rose on Sunday.

Whew I'm glad that's settled.

 

[smokydot]

We have been over this time and again , seems you won't accept that Jesus died on the day befor an ANNUAL SABBATH Joh.19v31 which was not the weekly Sabbath.And yes he died after eating the passover meal.That day was not a Sabbath but the next day was.

Yes, he did die the day before the annual Sabbath which was the first day of Unleavened Bread, which was the day after Passover.
The women observed that annual sabbath of Unleavened Bread and then went to the tomb the next day, the first day of the week, Sunday, to find he had risen.

And the Gospels do NOT say he rose after a Sabbath. They say that he was (past tense) risen, he was not there when the women came to the tomb on sunday morning. If you want to read a resurrection into sunday it's your business but you will not be in agreement with scripture.

So then he rose the day before, which was the annual sabbath of Unleavened Bread?

I am going to leave it there now , it's been explained over and over.

 

[smokydot]

No, it's not. John doesn't talk about a Passover Meal. The suggestion is never even brought up. In fact, John 18:28 states that Passover had not yet began and implies that the meal has not been eaten at that time (this is after Jesus is arrested).

So you still haven't reckoned with the nomenclature in post #212. . .where Passover can mean Unleavened Bread.

 

[smokydot]

If I'm so misinformed, then prove it. Take out your scripture, and find, in the Gospel of John, where the Last Supper is ever called a Passover Meal. It is a simple request if what you are saying is true.

Take out your Scripture, and find, in the Gospel of John, where it ever says that God exists.

Get the point? John is not the only record of Jesus' last meal.
You're practicing counterfeit exegesis again. . .trying to set the gospel of John against the other gospels, which are all in agreement.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

He rose on the third day.
He died on Friday and rose on Sunday.

I'm not saying you don't have a right to believe it the way you perceive it. Using Mark I was just pointing out that the idea of 3 days and 3 nights don't add add up. Even if you assume "third day", using Mark, it still doesn't add up given the way Jews observe their days and nights. I would have no other frame of reference if there weren't Jews in this thread disagreeing with the Christian perception as to what theirs days are.

Mark 15 says Joseph of Arimathaea went to Pilate and when Pilate received word from the Centurion (confirmation of death) he allowed Joseph to take the body. This was said to be done in the evening right before the start of the Sabbath. He would have been taken down Friday "evening" before the start of the Sabbath. Somewhere between Saturday evening and Sunday morning (the first day of the week, according to Mark 16) the women came to the tomb and discovered there was no body of Yeshua there but it is recorded in your scripture a young man was present who told the women (Yeshua has risen). This does not make 3 days and 3 nights nor does it seem Yeshua rising on the "third day".....

 

[smokydot]

Not a word about the Passover meal there. Read up to verse 28 which states that Passover had not yet began.

You still have reckoned with the nomclature. See post #212.

 

[fallingblood]

So you still haven't reckoned with the nomenclature in post #212. . .where Passover can mean Unleavened Bread.

You still haven't read John 18:28, or any of the posts by Poisonshady, which cleared this up.

 

[fallingblood]

Take out your Scripture, and find, in the Gospel of John, where it ever says that God exists.

Get the point? John is not the only record of Jesus' last meal.
You're practicing counterfeit exegesis again.

You're practicing ignorance and dismissive tactics. By saying ridiculous ideas do not make your argument any more sound. And ignoring the information that you've been given simply shows your arrogance.

 

[fallingblood]

You still have reckoned with the nomclature. See post #212.

Doesn't matter. Your point of nomenclature simply doesn't work here as it is simply ridiculous. Maybe it would be worth your time to listen to Poisonshady, who has explained this all very well.

 

[waitasec]

The meal begins in Jn 13:2 and goes for five chapters (13-17), and then he is arrested in chp 18.

maybe you didn't notice...

Not a word about the Passover meal there. Read up to verse 28 which states that Passover had not yet began.

john 3:1 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.
2 The evening meal was in progress...

 

[Poisonshady313]

And another thing. Here's a little word on what "between the evenings" mean:


in the afternoon: Heb. בֵּין הָעַרְבָּיִם From six hours [after sunrise] and onward is called בֵּין הָעַרְבַּיִם, literally, between the two evenings, for the sun is inclined toward the place where it sets to become darkened. It seems to me that the expression בֵּין הָעַרְבַּיִם denotes those hours between the darkening of the day and the darkening of the night. The darkening of the day is at the beginning of the seventh hour, when the shadows of evening decline, and the darkening of the night at the beginning of the night.

Exodus - Chapter 12 (Parshah Bo) - Exodus - Torah - Bible


6 hours from sunrise... assuming a 7:00 AM sunrise brings us to 1:00 PM. THE AFTERNOON!

 

[Harmonious]

You hold so much stock in your post #212 that I decided to take a look and address what you've mentioned.

First, the Passover lamb was sacrificed and roasted in the evening of the 14th, and then eaten the night of the 14th.

No, the Passover lamb was sacrificed and roasted in the evening of the 14th (before Mincha time) and it was eaten that evening which would have been the 15th of Nissan.

The following Passover day of the 14th was the Day of Preparation for the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the day Jesus was crucified.

This is a concept that has been annoying me since I started reading this thread.

This day of preparation... Dude, if you actually understood what Jews DO in preparation for Passover, this would not be such an issue, except for those who wish to believe whatever they will to make their agenda of believing what they will about Jesus work.

On the 14th of Nissan, Jews have to stop eating Chametz, or simplistically, leavened bread. Thus, it is IN PREPARATION, yes, but it isn't a special holiday.

It is a day that the First Born Jews fast, in commemoration of the fact that the first born of the Egyptians died in the plague, but the Jews were NOT killed. It's still not a special holiday.

During Temple times, people brought their lambs for the Passover offering and the Chagiga offering to be slaughtered and processed before Mincha (afternoon daily offering and prayer service) on the 14th, so that they could be prepared for dinner that night, which would be the 15th.

If you want to say that "people made a day of it," as the whole day was spent in preparation for Passover, I'll buy that. (Which, frankly, makes Jesus' whole turning of the money-tables entirely unforgivable, and it is a sin Jesus committed that will forever make me despise the mention of the man.)

But no, it was never a special, separate holiday. It is only so in the hearts and minds of Christians who don't bother with what Jews ACTUALLY do, or HAVE done, but wish to continue to propagate misbegotten ideas that were spawned from bad translations to start with.

The clear evidence for the above dates is the testimony of all four gospels that Jesus ate the Passover meal before he died, and that he died on the day before the Saturday Sabbath of the 15th, which was the first day of the seven-day Feast of Unleavened Bread.

If the evidence is clear that Jesus ate the Passover meal, that would have been the 15th. When the sun rose, it would ALSO have been the 15th.

If the idea is being spread that Jesus ate a meal that was not the 15th of Nissan, it was clearly not a Passover seder.

You can't have it both ways, no matter what you wish to believe.

So that's after the Passover meal and before the 15th, which has to be the 14th, as well as the day of Passover

I just addressed this. If it was before the 15th, it wasn't Passover.

All

four gospels give this account.

If you say so. I don't care about the timing. I don't have a dog in this race.

What I DO want is to clarify when Passover is. If Jesus ate a big meal before Passover, cool. If the meal Jesus had was a Passover seder, good for him. It's no skin off my nose, either way.

But don't try to remake the Jewish calendar to fix a textual problem you have if the gospels didn't manage to make everything nice and neat.

Now regarding your question, you can assume neither, for Passover in the time of Jesus could mean three things:
1) Passover - Nisan 14, one-day feast

Which would be patently nonsense, as God commanded that Passover is SEVEN DAYS, from the night that is the 15th of Nissan until the 21st.

2) Unleavened Bread - Nisan 15-21, seven-day feast (which is its meaning in your question, and is why the Day of Preparation is day before (14th) for Unleavened Bread on the 15th).

Which, again, is nonsense, as the commandment to refrain from eating Chametz (leavened bread) is the whole week long. However, the actual days that were celebrated as a particular holiday are the first night and subsequent day, and the seventh night and subsequent day.

3) both feasts together - Nisan 14-21, eight days of feasts

And none of these are used the same in the different gospels.

Because the three options you have listed are patented nonsense.

Then Unleavened Bread in the NT could mean two things:
1) Unleavened Bread - Nisan 15-21, seven-day feast, or
2) both feasts - Nisan 14-21, eight days of feasts

If Jesus changed things, it was clear that he wasn't keeping Passover properly.

Passover is only as I've described it. If you have come up with anything else... It could be Charlie, it could be Shirley, but it WON'T be Passover.

1) By the time of the NT, Unleavened Bread was often called Passover, but that is not the name it was given when it was legislated in Lev 23:4-8.

This just shows simple ignorance. Sometimes Passover is referred to as Pesach, and sometimes it is referred to as the Holiday of Matza.

Believing that Passover is some other bizarre thing because you are caught up in bad translations... would explain a lot, but it doesn't mean that you have a clue about what Passover IS, or when it is.

 

[fallingblood]

You hold so much stock in your post #212 that I decided to take a look and address what you've mentioned.No, the Passover lamb was sacrificed and roasted in the evening of the 14th (before Mincha time) and it was eaten that evening which would have been the 15th of Nissan.

I cut the quote down just for space sake, but bravo. I appreciate the information you posted.

 

[Harmonious]

I cut the quote down just for space sake, but bravo. I appreciate the information you posted.

I'm glad you appreciated it.

 

[Beta]

If Jesus changed things, it was clear that he wasn't keeping Passover properly.
Passover is only as I've described it.

What you have described are ' jewish practices ' and not at all what is being taught in the NT.Since you are 2000 years behind in new knowledge you can hardly expect us to listen to you. :no:

 

[Harmonious]

What you have described are ' jewish practices ' and not at all what is being taught in the NT.

Well, yes. Precisely.

Since you are 2000 years behind in new knowledge you can hardly expect us to listen to you. :no:

That only assumes that what is taught in the NT is legitimate knowledge. Since you are making up knowledge to reflect your personal beliefs, rather than what God commanded the Jews in the Five Books of Moses, you can hardly be expect us to listen to you.

See how that works?

 

[Beta]

I cut the quote down just for space sake, but bravo. I appreciate the information you posted.

If the blind lead the blind both fall into the ditch.:cover: