It is adequately explained by Jesus in the NT.
His explanation of it is not the same as common Jewish belief at the time.
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What Day was Jesus Crucified?
- Thread starter fallingblood
- Start date
His explanation of it is not the same as common Jewish belief at the time.
Now that's one amateurish understanding. . .
You didn't get it either, did you?
And I declare with the same authority as you, that it is you, not the gospels, who is wrong.
Underlining above by me.
Do you think you are guilty of Poisonshady' charge in post #233?
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Doesn't John 18:28 settle the matter?
The beginning of chapter 18 shows they came and arrested Yeshua during the Passover Preparation. It was the 14th. This was most likely (Thursday evening - Friday morning) while it was still dark outside because it says they came with torches and lanterns. So this is still dark and still considered the 14th.
I surmise it was before the Sabbath because in Chapter 19 is where they supposedly took him to be crucified. John 19:14 says it was Preparation before the Passover and about the 6th hour......This, to me, sounds as though this is about (6am), but could also be about the 6th hour of his captivity (not sure). Regardless, we know it is the Preparation before the Passover, as it states, and Yeshua is then crucified and Joseph of Arimathaea is allowed to retrieve the body...which was done before the start of the Sabbath (Friday evening).
John 19:31 says;
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day,.........
Preparation of the Passover on the 14th and Sabbath on the 15th.
I've already come to the conclusion the 3 day, 3 night in the tomb doesn't add up and seem to work out more like two of our (Western) days and nights.
Friday (night)
Saturday (day)
Saturday (night)
Sunday (day)
By (western) standards this is 2 days 2 nights. By Jewish standards he doesn't even seem to have been in the tomb that long (not 2 days, 2 nights)
Considering John 20:1-2 says
The first [day] of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
The beginning of chapter 18 shows they came and arrested Yeshua during the Passover Preparation. It was the 14th. This was most likely (Thursday evening - Friday morning) while it was still dark outside because it says they came with torches and lanterns. So this is still dark and still considered the 14th.
I surmise it was before the Sabbath because in Chapter 19 is where they supposedly took him to be crucified. John 19:14 says it was Preparation before the Passover and about the 6th hour......This, to me, sounds as though this is about (6am), but could also be about the 6th hour of his captivity (not sure). Regardless, we know it is the Preparation before the Passover, as it states, and Yeshua is then crucified and Joseph of Arimathaea is allowed to retrieve the body...which was done before the start of the Sabbath (Friday evening).
John 19:31 says;
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day,.........
Preparation of the Passover on the 14th and Sabbath on the 15th.
I've already come to the conclusion the 3 day, 3 night in the tomb doesn't add up and seem to work out more like two of our (Western) days and nights.
Friday (night)
Saturday (day)
Saturday (night)
Sunday (day)
By (western) standards this is 2 days 2 nights. By Jewish standards he doesn't even seem to have been in the tomb that long (not 2 days, 2 nights)
Considering John 20:1-2 says
The first [day] of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
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waitasec
Veteran Member
And you know this how?no. one discusses the NT to make this exact point
Perhaps you would like to give a short explanation of it , I'd appreciate it.
Oh, you said plainly in post #354 that the Jews had nothing to do with the killing of Jesus.
In post #386, I posted many NT reports which stated to the contrary.
And I declare with the same authority as you that you are simply wrong about that.
The Scriptures know of no other Messiah than the one promised to Israel.
Jesus was a Jew from Israel, and it is the overwhelming testimony of the NT that he is the Jewish meshi`ahh (annointed prince leader who was to come),
translated into the Greek word, Christos, and into the English word, Christ.
The Scriptures know of only one meshi`ahh, or Christos, or Christ.
The Jewish apostles say it is Jesus of Nazareth.
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waitasec
Veteran Member
because you base your faith on 'proof'
it's one thing to agree to disagree but to keep at it as you are it's pretty apparent you need evidence to sustain your faith.
Jesus' rising from the dead knocks the props from under the Jewish assertion that his dying on a cross proves he was not the Messiah.
The Jewish word in Isa 7:14 is almah.
The Greek Septuagint, translated from the Hebrew c. 200 B.C., translated the Hebrew word almah into the Greek word, parthenos,
which translates into the English word virgin.
That was 200 years before the birth of Jesus.
Matthew (in 1:23), 200 years later, simply quoted Isa 7:14 from the Septuagint of his time, where the Greek word there in that 200-year-old translation was parthenos, which is virgin.
The Greek word parthenos is likewise translated into the English word "virgin" in Mt 25:1,7,11; Lk 1:27; Ac 21:9; 1 Co 7:25,28,34,36,37; 2 Co 11:2,
and even used of men in Rev 14:4.
Actually, it is the NIV which has the better translation, as in seen for example in Mt 25:1,7,11, which is the parable of the ten parthenois (virgins),
in addition to its use in other Scriptures.
And is the "distinct difference" of Jn 3:16 a material difference?
You did not address my next to last response in this post, regarding your time line meaning a three-day delay in the proper preparation of Jesus body for burial.
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fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
It's amazing how you can take that part of what Harmonious said, and misconstrue it to try to fit your idea. Maybe you want to try to read all of what Harmonious said.
Is that the only thing for which it can be evidence?because you base your faith on 'proof'
it's one thing to agree to disagree but to keep at it as you are it's pretty apparent you need evidence to sustain your faith.
Think outside the box now.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
The Kingdom of God was a physical Kingdom that would replace the Earthly Kingdom, which at that time was Rome. It did not refer to a kingdom in heaven, but one on this Earth.Perhaps you would like to give a short explanation of it , I'd appreciate it.
When this Kingdom came, the righteous would be resurrected in a general resurrection, and live in this Kingdom. From what I recall, it was also a time in which people would be judged.
It isn't as simple as that, but that is pretty much the basics. I know some believed that the Messiah was suppose to rule in this Kingdom, and usher it in.
It did not refer to heaven, and contrary to what Smoky said, the Kingdom of God that Jesus was speaking about was the same idea that was prevalent in Judaism during that time.
waitasec
Veteran Member
i never claimed to believe the bible as the word of god....you did
through faith,
i'm just saying this talk of faith is a load of horse puckey
thank you for proving my point
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Other Jewish leaders also claimed to be Messiah, or had disciples who called them that as well. The fact is, none of them have fulfilled Messianic prophecy, and none have the right to be referred to as the Jewish Messiah. A basic understanding of Judaism would greatly help you here.