What Day was Jesus Crucified?

[smokydot]

like what?

Like justice for the community.

i'm guessing you don't have any kids.
besides you still didn't answer the question...

My post #135 was a "yes" to your question.

consider romans 8:15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship And by him we cry, “Abba Father"
isn't that the whole idea of of being free of sin? having god be your northern star, the direction to go towards...but still you're not good enough.

Freedom from sin and "God as our northern star to go towards" is for those who believe that Jesus' atoning sacrifice saves from the just wrath of God on their sin.

Jeus says it is not for anyone else, "He who does not believe in me is condemned already." (Jn 3:18)

that is what i find so vile in this religion. you are never good enough.

Those who believe in Jesus Christ are given the righteousness (goodness) of Christ.
There is no higher goodness. Their confidence is not in their own goodness. Their conscience testifies that they are not righteous.
Their confidence is in the rightousness of Jesus Christ, which God accounts to them. There is no fear for those who believe in Jesus Christ.
There is freedom from the fear caused by one's personal imperfections.

surely god would know how we are wired in the sense that we depend on people to believe in us, we need to believe in ourselves. where does the bible say he believes in us (as any loving parent would with their own children) and knows we are capable of doing the right thing....NO WHERE.

The Bible says something better.
Because we are not capable of always doing the right thing, God counts the righteousness of Jesus Christ as belonging to those who believe in him.

How good is that?

 

[fallingblood]

First let me say that I never listen to scholars - I go to the Word of God for information.
There is not a specific Day called Passover. SOME Jews referred (still do) to the FIRST Day of Unleavened Bread as Passover (or even the whole 7/8 days) and some did/do not --- that is where the confusion comes in. So if you want to call the day after the preparation Passover (but are referred to as the days of unleavened bread)...No..Jesus did not die on that day but on the day before called the 'preparation day'. Still no problem or confusion and still the same day on which he died. :yes:

I think there is a big problem there. Scholars have spent a vast amount of time studying "the Word of God." They know the Greek, they know the history behind it's composition, etc.

Basically, what I see from you is that you will believe what ever fits your ideas then. At that point, there is no reason to debate as it is nearly impossible to do, because the facts don't necessarily matter. That's the same problem Smoky has. Once facts are abandoned, there really is no point for a discussion.

 

[smokydot]

Again, there is no actual connection. Jesus was killed during that time simply because of his actions. He wasn't the only Jew killed during or around that celebration. He wasn't the only Jew crucified during or around the Passover.
More so, the Passover had been in practice much longer than Jesus. The fact that it was being celebrated before Jesus says everything we need to know.

And, indeed, it is the only thing you know. . .you are so misinformed. . .and so in over your head. . .like the kid who is confident that he did well on the test,
because he doesn't know enough about the material to realize he didn't do well at all.

You are confident only because of your ignorance of the subject on which you purport to expound.

Go and learn what "types" are.

When you have done that, then see posts #178 and #179 which show the types connecting Jesus to the Passover.

 

[fallingblood]

And, indeed, it is the only thing you know. . .you are so misinformed. . .and so in over your head. . .like the kid who is confident that he did well on the test,
because he doesn't know enough about the material to realize he didn't do well at all.

You are confident only because of your ignorance of the subject on which you purport to expound.

Go and learn what "types" are.

When you have done that, then see posts #151 and #152 which show the types connecting Jesus to the Passover.

I'm not going to debate with what you said, as it is pointless. Your tactic throughout has been to ignore, dismiss, and insult. My advice for you is to stop being so arrogant, and act with some maturity. Because honestly, it is becoming sickening with all of the insults that you hurl at me, even though they are baseless.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That's the same problem Smoky has. Once facts are abandoned, there really is no point for a discussion.

It's not necessarily the facts that are the problem, but the obstinate refusal to realize one's "facts" are misinterpreted or untrue.

When we come into debate or discussion, we have to be willing to admit that we're wrong and correct ourselves. Otherwise, we never improve.

 

[smokydot]

I'm not going to debate with what you said, as it is pointless. Your tactic throughout has been to ignore, dismiss, and insult.

That's called "unable to take you seriously" because you are so confident in your ridiculous misinformation and in your ignorance on the subject.

My advice for you is to stop being so arrogant, and act with some maturity. Because honestly, it is becoming sickening with all of the insults that you hurl at me, even though they are baseless.

Go and learn what types mean.

Then review posts #178 and #179 which show the types connecting Jesus to Passover, contrary to your confident assertion in post #143.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That's called "unable to take you seriously" because you are so confident in your ridiculous misinformation and in your ignorance on the subject.
Go and learn what types mean.

The thing is, when you call someone ignorant, you are merely insulting their intelligence.

When others point out your ignorance, it's a matter of compassion.

 

[smokydot]

I think there is a big problem there. Scholars have spent a vast amount of time studying "the Word of God." They know the Greek, they know the history behind it's composition, etc.

Basically, what I see from you is that you will believe what ever fits your ideas then. At that point, there is no reason to debate as it is nearly impossible to do, because the facts don't necessarily matter. That's the same problem Smoky has. Once facts are abandoned, there really is no point for a discussion.

And you won't have the facts of the matter until you learn the OT.

There are ideas there which you know not of, which have determinitive bearing on the facts as presented in the NT.

Your assertion that you have the facts of the matter, when you aren't familiar with the OT, will not cause anyone to abandon the facts of the OT which you know not of.

 

[smokydot]

The thing is, when you call someone ignorant, you are merely insulting their intelligence.
When others point out your ignorance, it's a matter of compassion.

No. . .the thing is, it all depends on whether one is willing to accept, from those who point them out, the actual facts of which they are ignorant.
I know of many changes in view in this forum regarding the actual facts when they were pointed out,
(and of then being criticized for changing those views by the very one who furnished the facts which caused the changes. . .go figure).
There is no such change in his view when they are pointed out to fallingblood.

Call it whatever you like, fallingblood refuses to accept the facts presented in the OT, and accuses of obstinacy those who will not abandon them,
based on his misinformed view.

See posts #178 and #179 for much of what he is not aware, and post #158 for the reckoning he has not done.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

No, the thing is that it all depends on whether one is willing to accept, from those who point them out, the actual facts of which they are ignorant.
I know of many changes in view in this forum regarding the actual facts when they were pointed out.
There is no such change in his view when they are pointed out to fallingblood.

Call it whatever you like, fallingblood refuses to accept the facts presented in the OT, and accuses of obstinacy those who will not abandon them,
based on his misinformed view.

All is vanity.

 

[waitasec]

Like justice for the community.
My post #135 was a "yes" to your question....

if your answer is yes then you would turn your back on your children for wanting to be themselves. is that love based on condition or not?

well if that were the case, then this god is not your abba father
romans 8:15
he is not concerned with you and is not concerned with counting the hairs on your head and what your dreams are...
he doesn't care what school you should go to or if your football team will win and if you get the best parking space at costco...
he is concerned with black and white issues...and you better be on the right side, or else.

yea that sounds like freedom

you are speaking as though you know what it would be like to a parent. of which you are obviously not. therefore, you cannot answer the question. i didn't ask you as a judge did i?

There is no higher goodness. Their confidence is not in their own goodness. Their conscience testifies that they are not righteous.
Their confidence is in the rightousness of Jesus Christ, which God accounts to them. There is no fear for those who believe in Jesus Christ.
There is freedom from the fear caused by one's personal imperfections.
The Bible says something better.
Because we are not capable of always doing the right thing, God counts the righteousness of Jesus Christ as belonging to those who believe in him.

How good is that?

what moral act can a believer do that a non believer can't do?

 

[smokydot]

if your answer is yes then you would turn your back on your children for wanting to be themselves. is that love based on condition or not?

Post #135, which is the answer to your question, is about me being the Judge of the Court, responsible for justice in the community, which when justice is the issue, trumps all other considerations.

well if that were the case, then this god is not your abba father
romans 8:15
he is not concerned with you and is not concerned with counting the hairs on your head and what your dreams are...
he doesn't care what school you should go to or if your football team will win and if you get the best parking space at costco...
he is concerned with black and white issues...and you better be on the right side, or else.
yea that sounds like freedom

It seems the NT idea of freedom is not the same as yours.

you are speaking as though you know what it would be like to a parent. of which you are obviously not. therefore, you cannot answer the question. i didn't ask you as a judge did i?

If you want me to answer a question comparing God's behavior to mine, then our situations must be similar to make a fair comparison.

what moral act can a believer do that a non believer can't do?

That matters not because God declares the believer is righteous because he is in Christ, and not because he is morally superior.

 

[waitasec]

Post #135, which is the answer to your question, is about me being the Judge of the Court, responsible for justice in the community, which when justice is the issue, trumps all other considerations.
It seems the NT idea of freedom is not the same as yours.
If you want me to answer a question comparing God's behavior to mine, then our situations must be similar to make a fair comparison.
That matters not because God declares the believer is righteous because he is in Christ, and not because he is morally superior.

i asked you AS A PARENT not a judge...

so no. you didn't answer the question


if your definition of freedom is
exemption from the power and control of another

all i can say is, you got a lot of goal posts to move...

That matters not because God declares the believer is righteous because he is in Christ, and not because he is morally superior.

are you kidding me? so i guess you answered in your own way that
unbelievers can be as morally good as believers but by your own admission believers are morally superior?
nice. you're not making a good case for your faith, you know...

 

[fallingblood]

No. . .the thing is, it all depends on whether one is willing to accept, from those who point them out, the actual facts of which they are ignorant.
I know of many changes in view in this forum regarding the actual facts when they were pointed out.
There is no such change in his view when they are pointed out to fallingblood.

Call it whatever you like, fallingblood refuses to accept the facts presented in the OT, and accuses of obstinacy those who will not abandon them,
based on his misinformed view.

See posts #151 and #152 for much of what he is not aware, and post #160 for the reckoning he has not done.

That's incorrect. I've admitted that I was wrong. That is one of the reasons I am not fully participating in this discussion anymore.

Poisonshady313 pointed out where I was wrong. So I admitted to that and stepped back from the discussion until I can learn more. Why? Because I admit fallibility when I see it. And then I make sure it doesn't happen again with that particular information.

However, you've not shown where I am wrong. Instead, you continue to insult me.

 

[Beta]

But what settles the issue is the ancient testimony of the Church from its beginning, which reports Jesus died on Passover and rose on Firstfruits (post #151).
They were't 2,000 years removed from the events.

What settles it is
SCRIPTURE - THE WORD OF GOD.
No man or worldly church has authority over God and Christ !!!

 

[Beta]

Christ died on Wednesday before the Passover sabbath on Thursday not the weekly sabbath on Saturday. In this way He was in the tomb for the full 3 days and 3 nights He said He would be. Thursday night Friday night and Saturday night Thursday day Friday day and Saturday day. In other words there were two sabbaths that week, the Passover sabbath on Thursday and the regular weekly sabbath on Saturday.

A little slip in adding up my friend. True - Jesus died on the wednesday afternoon and was buried at sunset so he was in the tomb WEDNESDAY NIGHT, Thursday night and friday night (3 nights) Thursday day, Triday day Saturday day (3 daytimes). By sunday early morning while still dark he was already risen .Since he was buried wed.sunset he rose saturday sunset exactly 3 days and 3 nights ( 72 hours) later as predicted according to scripture and his own sign given Mat.12.

 

[smokydot]

i asked you AS A PARENT not a judge...
so no. you didn't answer the question

I am answering as a parent who is a judge. . .to insure the comparison of my behavior to God's is more fairly comparable.

I will not address a charge against God by comparing him to myself in an unfair way.

if your definition of freedom is
exemption from the power and control of another
all i can say is, you got a lot of goal posts to move...

But didn't I say my definition of freedom is that of the NT?

are you kidding me? so i guess you answered in your own way that
unbelievers can be as morally good as believers but by your own admission believers are morally superior?

Did you miss the believers "are NOT morally superior there"?

I think you misunderstood what I meant. . .let me try again.
It is not moral superiority that causes God to look on believers as righteous, for they are not. It is because they are in Christ that God accounts them as righteous.

C'mon, waitasec, you're not up to your standard here.

nice. you're not making a good case for your faith, you know...

 

[smokydot]

Yeshua has everything to do with Passover. Just like First fruits of the barley harvest represents 3 days of travel into the wilderness, Yeshua was in grave for 3 days. Just like the counting of the omar to Shavout where the children of Israel received the 10 commandments (on Mt. Sinai) and Holy spirit visited the upper room.
These festivals are Gods appointed times to meet with man, his creation.

Since you brought it up (edited in red), I will expand on the FEASTS (festivals) which were types (pictures) of Christ, as related to his Passover sacrifice.

PASSOVER - 14th--------------Christ was sacrificed-----commemorating salvation from the angel of death----type (picture) of salvation from eternal death (con't next)...
----(lamb sacrificed)

UNLEAVENED BREAD - 15th--------------------------------commemorating Exodus------------------------------------...to purge sin from our lives.
----(all yeast removed from homes)

FIRST FRUITS - 16th-----------Christ rose---------------------------------------------------------------------------------type--Branch of the Lord, presented as firstfruit of resurrection
---(first fruit of barley harvest [stalks] presented to the Lord)

WEEKS (Pentecost)-----------Holy Spirit was sent-------commemorating giving law on Mt. Sinai-----------------type--pouring out of Holy Spirit, full harvest of the cross
----(full barley harvest--40 days later)

Con't. in post #179.

 

[smokydot]

Im not saying anything about the number 3.
The time frame of Israel leaving Egypt, traveling into the desert, going through the Red Sea and resurrecting as a saved nation took 3 days. This is the FirstFruits of the Barley harvest. The date was a hotly contested issue, the Pharisees maintained that the date would be the 16 th of Aviv, while the Sadducees endorsed the Sunday following the weekly Sabbath during Hag haMatzah. The debate is over leviticus 23.
At first it looks like the Sadducees were right, but there are 7 sabbaths known as "Shabbaton" or "High Sabbaths". The 15th of Aviv is such a sabbath.
Yeshua was in the grave for 3 days, and became our Firstfruit as described in I corinthians 15.20-23.
The connection is between the 7 festivals which God gave us as appointed meeting times with him, and the Messiah.
The Messiah may well have visited us, in parallel with the spring/former rain festivals (feasts in post #151). The Messiah may very well come back in parallel with the fall/later rain festivals.

Well, since you brought it up (edited in red), there are three more FEASTS (festivals) on which I will expand, thereby covering all seven of them here, and in post #178.

Con't. from post #179:

FEAST OF TRUMPETS - Tishri 1--------commemorating trumpet on Mt Sinai calling people to come-----type--trumpet call of the gospel to the nations
----(Sabbath feast beginning with trumpet blasts)

DAY OF ATONEMENT------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------type--blood of Christ that continues (Heb10:4) cleansing until he comes
---(cleansing of Temple with blood of atoning sacrifices, actually a fast day)

FEAST OF TABERNACLES (In Gathering)-----Christ comes again-----commemorating 40 years in wilderness----type--gathering in of the nations at the second coming
----(wheat and grape harvest)

 

[smokydot]

That's incorrect. I've admitted that I was wrong. That is one of the reasons I am not fully participating in this discussion anymore.
Poisonshady313 pointed out where I was wrong.

But Poisonshady313 is operating from an incorrect translation, which differs from the KJV, NSV, NIV, and all the other "V's", as shown in post #181,
which causes an incorrect location of the Passover meal.

So I admitted to that and stepped back from the discussion until I can learn more. Why? Because I admit fallibility when I see it. And then I make sure it doesn't happen again with that particular information.
However, you've not shown where I am wrong. Instead, you continue to insult me.

You and Poisonshady313 are both wrong, as shown in post #181.
The Passover meal was on Nisan 14.