What Day was Jesus Crucified?

[fallingblood]

I raised this question in another thread. It was claimed that there were no disagreements in the Bible, or the story of Jesus. As I have done on various occasions, I raised this question, on what day was Jesus crucified?

Upon a close examination of the Gospels, this simple question becomes a little difficult. For reference, the translation I will be using for various verses will be the NRSV.

We will begin with what Mark states (I use Mark as Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source and generally agree).

Mark 14:12 "On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb is sacrificed, his disciples said to him, 'Where do you want us to go and make the preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

In other words, the passage is referring to the Day of Preparation of the Passover; the day before Passover.

Mark 15:25, it still being Passover, tells us that jesus was crucified at nine o'clock in the morning. So clearly, in Mark, and the synoptics follow along, Jesus was crucified on the day of Passover. For instance, Matthew 26:17 states "On the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "where do you want us to make the preparations for your to eat the Passover?"

Another key here is that both Matthew and Mark place the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Break on the day of Preparation of the Passover; the day before Passover. Luke simply lumps it all together: Luke 22:1 "Now the festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was near." There is no doubt that in any of these three accounts, the authors are talking about the festival that lasted 8 days.

It should also be noted that the synoptics all portray the last supper as a Passover meal.

Now, moving to John, we see a difference. John 19:14 "Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon." The context of this verse is with Jesus' trial before Pilate. At this point, Jesus had already been flogged, and is now getting the verdict; he will be crucified, as stated in verse 16. So for John, is is the Day of Preparation for the Passover; or the day before Passover, that Jesus is crucified. Clearly, there is a disagreement here.

However, this is not the only evidence we have that Passover had not yet occurred. John 18:28 "Then they took Jesus from Caiaphas to Pilate's headquarters. It was early in the morning. They themselves did not enter the headquarters, so as to avoid ritual defilement and to be able to eat the Passover." Clearly, this shows that Passover had not yet occurred. Since, in the account of John, the last supper had already occurred, there is no way it could have been a Passover meal; according to John.

Now, some have claimed that John 19:31 ["Since it was the day of Preparation, the Jews did not want the bodies left on the cross during the sabbath, especially because that sabbath was a day of great solemnity."] points to the idea that it had to be Passover. However, the main reason for the confusion is a lack of understanding of the terms Day of Preparation for the Passover, and day of Preparation. Some try to combine these two phrases to make them both signify one thing. However, that simply can not logically be done.

The Day of Preparation for the Passover is a term that signifies the day before the Passover. On this day, the sacrificial lamb was slaughtered in the temple. The term can only mean one day, and that is the day before Passover.

The day of Preparation was the day before the Sabbath. In other words, it was Friday. The day of Preparation, and the Day of Preparation for the Passover though could be the same day on occasion. It all has to do with when Passover falls. A big mistake that Christians do is assume that it falls always on a Friday. That simply is not true. We place it on Friday because of theological reasons. However, the Jewish Calendar, and our calendar do not sync up perfectly. For instance, Passover this coming year (2011), Passover will begin at sunset of April 19th, which is a Tuesday.

That is why some translations use the term Special Sabbath. When Passover fell on the Sabbath, it was considered a Special Sabbath.

As we can see then, the synoptics and John disagree on the day in which Jesus is crucified.

 

[Muri27]

we will never know due to the fact the book was written a long time ago, and has been rewritten by thousands of people, who all just had to put their own stamp on the book.

so don't take the book to serious, just look at the metaphors and try to bring the world around you some insight/happiness

 

[outhouse]

we will never know due to the fact the book was written a long time ago, and has been rewritten by thousands of people, who all just had to put their own stamp on the book.

so don't take the book to serious, just look at the metaphors and try to bring the world around you some insight/happiness

I think your right in the fact we will never know.

I like the fact your positive in your out look

this is one rare example ive seen with proper use of religion as a positive guide

frubals

 

[fallingblood]

we will never know due to the fact the book was written a long time ago, and has been rewritten by thousands of people, who all just had to put their own stamp on the book.

so don't take the book to serious, just look at the metaphors and try to bring the world around you some insight/happiness

I like your insight as well; however, I think you missed the point of what I was saying. I was not arguing that we can actually know what day. My point is that there are errors in the Bible, and that they should be recognized. More so though, this thread is addressing a point that I've brought up before, and others have argued.

 

[horiturk]

well even the christian scriptures can't agree,they all don't even mention a resurrection....sounds fishy to me

 

[David M]

Remember, the bible is innerrant and infallibe, even when it contradicts itself

 

[dogsgod]

Perhaps John's intention was to give an explicit reference to Christ as the Passover lamb.

 

[Muri27]

I like your insight as well; however, I think you missed the point of what I was saying. I was not arguing that we can actually know what day. My point is that there are errors in the Bible, and that they should be recognized. More so though, this thread is addressing a point that I've brought up before, and others have argued.

they can't recognize that there are errors in the bible due to the nature of religion.
if you present the absolute truth it's quite difficult to admit there are mistakes in your holy book and will be fixed asap .

but yes they should be recognized.

 

[waitasec]

Remember, the bible is innerrant and infallibe, even when it contradicts itself

wow...:areyoucra

 

[waitasec]

they can't recognize that there are errors in the bible due to the nature of religion.
if you present the absolute truth it's quite difficult to admit there are mistakes in your holy book and will be fixed asap .

but yes they should be recognized.

tear down the wall!
-roger waters

 

[Beta]

Remember, the bible is innerrant and infallibe, even when it contradicts itself

The only reason we have this 'apparent' contradiction is 'faulty human perception'.
It seems quite obvious that PEOPLE apply different terms and meanings to the 'Passover Festival', some including the 'Days of Unleavened Bread' while others consider them separate. And 'Christians in general' have no understanding of them at all since they distance themselves from GOD's FESTIVALS altogether. All they have are some perverted substitutes of them alien to the God of the Bible.
What is the point of discussing this event based on such confusion ??? There are clear biblical/scriptural records from which the day of Jesus' death can be correctly calculated so why all the parlaver ? :help:

 

[fallingblood]

The only reason we have this 'apparent' contradiction is 'faulty human perception'.
It seems quite obvious that PEOPLE apply different terms and meanings to the 'Passover Festival', some including the 'Days of Unleavened Bread' while others consider them separate. And 'Christians in general' have no understanding of them at all since they distance themselves from GOD's FESTIVALS altogether. All they have are some perverted substitutes of them alien to the God of the Bible.
What is the point of discussing this event based on such confusion ??? There are clear biblical/scriptural records from which the day of Jesus' death can be correctly calculated so why all the parlaver ? :help:

Can you show where the confusion in my OP is? Show me where my faulty human perception is, so I can see this isn't an apparent contradiction.

I don't think you can do that though because I am aware of what Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread is. And I have learned a basic history about them as well.

 

[Beta]

Can you show where the confusion in my OP is? Show me where my faulty human perception is, so I can see this isn't an apparent contradiction.
I don't think you can do that though because I am aware of what Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread is. And I have learned a basic history about them as well.

I do not hold you personally responsible for this ignorance and confusion friend. It is the fault of general unbelief and digression from the Word of God that has led Jews and Christians to confuse the issues and cause misunderstanding. Not something happening now but been ongoing for centuries.

 

[fallingblood]

I do not hold you personally responsible for this ignorance and confusion friend. It is the fault of general unbelief and digression from the Word of God that has led Jews and Christians to confuse the issues and cause misunderstanding. Not something happening now but been ongoing for centuries.

Again, maybe you would like to show my ignorance instead of making baseless claims.

 

[Beta]

Again, maybe you would like to show my ignorance instead of making baseless claims.

Again I say my remarks were not directed at yourself since I do not know your beliefs. I have already explained they are a general observation of religious misunderstanding.

 

[waitasec]

The only reason we have this 'apparent' contradiction is 'faulty human perception'.
It seems quite obvious that PEOPLE apply different terms and meanings to the 'Passover Festival', some including the 'Days of Unleavened Bread' while others consider them separate. And 'Christians in general' have no understanding of them at all since they distance themselves from GOD's FESTIVALS altogether. All they have are some perverted substitutes of them alien to the God of the Bible.
What is the point of discussing this event based on such confusion ??? There are clear biblical/scriptural records from which the day of Jesus' death can be correctly calculated so why all the parlaver ? :help:

faulty human perception
wait, are you human?

 

[Beta]

faulty human perception
wait, are you human?

Good point friend !!!
But according to this way of thinking no human would ever know the truth. We know from scripture that SOME who have the Spirit of God do know more than those who have not. The Prophets and Apostles are certainly among the elect and chosen of God as well as the Firstfruits. Therefore not all humans are excluded from it.

 

[waitasec]

Good point friend !!!
But according to this way of thinking no human would ever know the truth. We know from scripture that SOME who have the Spirit of God do know more than those who have not. The Prophets and Apostles are certainly among the elect and chosen of God as well as the Firstfruits. Therefore not all humans are excluded from it.

that is a statement made by faith...
there is absolutely no way you can prove such a claim.
unless of course you're always right which would be highly improbable, what do you think?

 

[fallingblood]

Again I say my remarks were not directed at yourself since I do not know your beliefs. I have already explained they are a general observation of religious misunderstanding.

And again, as I've stated before, show me these misunderstandings. Obviously, you think that there is a misunderstanding in my OP. Otherwise, you wouldn't have posted anything. So maybe you will explain the religious misunderstanding here.

 

[Pegg]

I raised this question in another thread. It was claimed that there were no disagreements in the Bible, or the story of Jesus. As I have done on various occasions, I raised this question, on what day was Jesus crucified?

Upon a close examination of the Gospels, this simple question becomes a little difficult. For reference, the translation I will be using for various verses will be the NRSV.

We will begin with what Mark states (I use Mark as Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source and generally agree).

Mark 14:12 "On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb is sacrificed, his disciples said to him, 'Where do you want us to go and make the preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

In other words, the passage is referring to the Day of Preparation of the Passover; the day before Passover.

Mark 15:25, it still being Passover, tells us that jesus was crucified at nine o'clock in the morning. So clearly, in Mark, and the synoptics follow along, Jesus was crucified on the day of Passover. For instance, Matthew 26:17 states "On the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "where do you want us to make the preparations for your to eat the Passover?"

Another key here is that both Matthew and Mark place the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Break on the day of Preparation of the Passover; the day before Passover. Luke simply lumps it all together: Luke 22:1 "Now the festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was near." There is no doubt that in any of these three accounts, the authors are talking about the festival that lasted 8 days.

It should also be noted that the synoptics all portray the last supper as a Passover meal.

Now, moving to John, we see a difference. John 19:14 "Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon." The context of this verse is with Jesus' trial before Pilate. At this point, Jesus had already been flogged, and is now getting the verdict; he will be crucified, as stated in verse 16. So for John, is is the Day of Preparation for the Passover; or the day before Passover, that Jesus is crucified. Clearly, there is a disagreement here.

However, this is not the only evidence we have that Passover had not yet occurred. John 18:28 "Then they took Jesus from Caiaphas to Pilate's headquarters. It was early in the morning. They themselves did not enter the headquarters, so as to avoid ritual defilement and to be able to eat the Passover." Clearly, this shows that Passover had not yet occurred. Since, in the account of John, the last supper had already occurred, there is no way it could have been a Passover meal; according to John.

Now, some have claimed that John 19:31 ["Since it was the day of Preparation, the Jews did not want the bodies left on the cross during the sabbath, especially because that sabbath was a day of great solemnity."] points to the idea that it had to be Passover. However, the main reason for the confusion is a lack of understanding of the terms Day of Preparation for the Passover, and day of Preparation. Some try to combine these two phrases to make them both signify one thing. However, that simply can not logically be done.

The Day of Preparation for the Passover is a term that signifies the day before the Passover. On this day, the sacrificial lamb was slaughtered in the temple. The term can only mean one day, and that is the day before Passover.

The day of Preparation was the day before the Sabbath. In other words, it was Friday. The day of Preparation, and the Day of Preparation for the Passover though could be the same day on occasion. It all has to do with when Passover falls. A big mistake that Christians do is assume that it falls always on a Friday. That simply is not true. We place it on Friday because of theological reasons. However, the Jewish Calendar, and our calendar do not sync up perfectly. For instance, Passover this coming year (2011), Passover will begin at sunset of April 19th, which is a Tuesday.

That is why some translations use the term Special Sabbath. When Passover fell on the Sabbath, it was considered a Special Sabbath.

As we can see then, the synoptics and John disagree on the day in which Jesus is crucified.

have you taken into consideration that on this particular year (33ce) the passover was 'a great' passover as John calls it, John 19:31 Then the Jews, since it was Preparation, in order that the bodies might not remain upon the torture stakes on the Sabbath, (for the day of that Sabbath was a great one,) requested Pilate to have their legs broken and the [bodies] taken away
This means that the Passover and Sabbath coincided so it was like having a 'long weekend' rather then a normal 2 day weekend.

"That year the Passover occurred on the sixth day of the week (counted by the Jews as from sundown on Thursday to sundown on Friday). This is evident from John 19:31, which shows that the following day was “a great” sabbath. The day after Passover was always a sabbath, no matter on what day of the week it came. (Le 23:5-7) But when this special Sabbath coincided with the regular Sabbath (the seventh day of the week), it became “a great one.” So Jesus’ death took place on Friday, Nisan 14, by about 3:00 p.m.—Lu 23:44-46." Insight on the Scriptures.