What Day was Jesus Crucified?

[waitasec]

Could you use a better sense of the ancients and their practices, which are so foreign to us today, so that you would not expect their 2,000+ year-old Middle East narratives to read like 21st century Anglo-Saxon narratives?

Do you find Shakespeare any easier to understand?

i would expect, if there was a god, then god would be more obvious today like he was, allegedly, to the eye witnesses then?

no big voice in the sky or a talking burning bush...or a talking snake...
what about the miracle of feeding thousands with a loaf of bread?

what about commanding his creation that everyone is created equal instead of how he should be worshipped.
what about god taking sides over a small piece of land for a certain people

 

[smokydot]

i would expect, if there was a god, then god would be more obvious today like he was, allegedly, to the eye witnesses then?
no big voice in the sky or a talking burning bush...or a talking snake...
what about the miracle of feeding thousands with a loaf of bread?
what about commanding his creation that everyone is created equal instead of how he should be worshipped.
what about god taking sides over a small piece of land for a certain people

Well, the very meaning of a holy, righteous God is that he doesn't answer to you, but you answer to him, that his ways trump your ways and his thinking trumps your thinking.

Any God where these aren't the facts of the matter, is too small and limited to be God.

 

[sniper762]

according to the gospels, on friday the day before the sabboth

 

[smokydot]

according to the gospels, on friday the day before the sabboth

Yep, the Sabbath which was the first day of the seven-day Feast of Unleavened Bread that year (Nissan 15-21),
and the Passover was the day before that feast (Nissan 14), which was the Passover Friday on which Jesus was crucified as the Passover Lamb.

Jesus participated in the Passover meal at sundown of Passover, Nissan 14. . .and then fulfilled Passover the next day (Nissan 14) when he was sacrified as the Passove Lamb.

All explained in post #55.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't understand.

You can see right through me.

A post as simple as that should be easy.

 

[Onlooker]

On the 10th of Aviv, the Priest would have a procession from the east of the city going to the Temple with the lamb. Crowds sang Psalm 118.
Yeshua entered the city the same route with the crowd saying a similar song.
For 4 days the lamb is in the outer court for all to examine for spots/blemishes.
Yeshua for 4 days taught in the Temple, with Sadducess and Parisees not finding fault.
Morning of the 14th at 900 am the lamb was brought/bound to the alter.
Yeshua was tied/nailed to tree at 900 am.
6 hours both awaited sacrifice.
At 9th hour (3 pm) the lamb was sacrificed, at 3 pm Yeshua pronounced "it is finished".
For 1500 years the appointed festival God gave his believers to follow as "Passover" mirrored Yeshua's sacrifice.

 

[fallingblood]

On the 10th of Aviv, the Priest would have a procession from the east of the city going to the Temple with the lamb. Crowds sang Psalm 118.
Yeshua entered the city the same route with the crowd saying a similar song.
For 4 days the lamb is in the outer court for all to examine for spots/blemishes.
Yeshua for 4 days taught in the Temple, with Sadducess and Parisees not finding fault.
Morning of the 14th at 900 am the lamb was brought/bound to the alter.
Yeshua was tied/nailed to tree at 900 am.
6 hours both awaited sacrifice.
At 9th hour (3 pm) the lamb was sacrificed, at 3 pm Yeshua pronounced "it is finished".
For 1500 years the appointed festival God gave his believers to follow as "Passover" mirrored Yeshua's sacrifice.

That really isn't correct. The lamb was sacrificed the day before Passover, on the Day of Preparation for the Passover. And Jesus has nothing to do with Passover. He just happened to be executed at that time.

 

[fallingblood]

according to the gospels, on friday the day before the sabboth

I have to agree with you on that. It was on a Friday. My question was more regarding on what specific day. The Day of Preparation for the Passover, or the Passover.

 

[sniper762]

scripture only says that it was a few hours before the sabboth.

 

[dogsgod]

The day Jesus was executed was entirely up to the authors.

 

[dogsgod]

"According to the Gospels, Jesus was crucified on either the first day of Passover or the day before Passover, depending on the Gospel. The synoptics have Jesus crucified on the day of Passover, while John puts the crucifixion on the day before. This itself defies reason, as Passover is considered one of the holiest of Jewish holidays, and this holiday not only took considerable preparation, but was a time of forgiveness and celebration. It is also when the Jews made public sacrifices to their god. That the Jewish authorities would have held a public execution of someone at this time is itself pretty well beyond belief." Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ


The Romans authorities could have executed anyone at any time of their own choosing, however the gospels have the Jewish leaders appealing to the Roman authorities for the arrest and execution of Jesus at a time that makes the story historically impossible, but it does make sense theologically.

 

[fallingblood]

scripture only says that it was a few hours before the sabboth.

The OP explains what each Gospel tells us.

 

[fallingblood]

The Romans authorities could have executed anyone at any time of their own choosing, however the gospels have the Jewish leaders appealing to the Roman authorities for the arrest and execution of Jesus at a time that makes the story historically impossible, but it does make sense theologically.

Not exactly. We know very little about the Sanhedrin during the first century.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Yep, the Sabbath which was the first day of the seven-day Feast of Unleavened Bread that year (Nissan 15-21),
and the Passover was the day before that feast (Nissan 14), which was the Passover Friday on which Jesus was crucified as the Passover Lamb.

Jesus participated in the Passover meal at sundown of Passover, Nissan 14. . .and then fulfilled Passover the next day (Nissan 14) when he was sacrified as the Passove Lamb.

All explained in post #55.

One of the things that bugs me about non-Jews talking about Jewish holy days and the Jewish calendar is how sloppy they are.

For example.... calling the day of the sacrifice of the lamb "Passover" confuses the fact that the 7 day festival is called Passover.

Let me explain.

On the 14th of Nisan, in the afternoon, the lamb is slaughtered. When the sun sets, it becomes the 15th of Nisan, and the lamb is eaten on the first night of Passover at the Passover meal/feast of unleavened bread.

There is no passover meal on the 14th of Nisan.

 

[Poisonshady313]

You are so misinformed.

Passover began at sundown the day before, and went to sundown the day of, Nissan 14.
The Passover lamb was slain the day it was eaten at the sundown meal of Nissan 14, the sundown before Passover daytime of Nissan 14.
You are so misinformed.

The feasts were not interchangeable, their names were interchangeable (Lk 22:1).
The Feast of Unleavened Bread (Nissan 15) always occurred the day after Passover (Nissan 14).
The OT observing Jews (prior to ascension of Jesus) did not make changes in the Levitical laws.
Their observance has changed now, which has nothing to do with observance before the ascention of Jesus. The NT records the practices and nomenclature of apostolic times, where Passover is simply called the Feast of Unleavened Bread, but it is not the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

Both feasts together were sometimes called Passover (Lk 22:1), the name of only one of them, but applied to both of them,
and were sometimes called Feast of Unleavened Bread (Mt 26:17), the name of only one of them, but applied to both of them because of their immediate proximity.
By NT times the names were virtually interchangeable.

And that fact of their interchanging the nomenclature, explained in the previous response here, I presented to you several times
(posts #80 and #44 on the Paul and Jesus thread), which each time you emphatically argued against.
What changed your mind?
What was celebrated in the first century after the ascension of Jesus in 30 AD is irrelevant. What was celebrated during the lifetime of Jesus,
as well as the interchangeable nomenclature of the two feasts used then (stated by you above in red), is what is recorded in the NT. . .which you simply do not understand.

You acknowlege the facts, as above in red, but you don't understand how they relate to one another. They are just isolated facts to you, having no bearing on one another.
In the OT they were always grouped into one celebration, at least to the ascension of Jesus, because of their immediate proximity--one following on the other
with no day in between.
Passover was on the Nissan 14, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread began on Nissan 15 and continued through Nissan 21, making eight days in a row of continuous feast.
They were always celebrated as one celebration, at least until the ascension of Jesus.
You've already stated, above in red, that the names for the two feasts were used interchangeably.
That is exactly what John does in his account.
He uses the name Passover to mean the Feast of Unleavened Bread. . .whose Day of Preparation is Nissan 14, which is the day of Passover.

John is not saying the Day of Prepration was Nissan 13.
He is using the name Passover, to refer to the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Nissan 15), whose Day of Preparation was Nissan 14, the day of Passover (Nissan 14),
and the day Jesus was crucified.
Do you have a source?
You haven't reckoned with the fact that the Feast of Unleavened Bread of NIssan 15, was only called the Passover of Nissan 14 (Lk 22:1).
So when John speaks of Passover, he is using the then common name for and referring to the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
Therefore, when John reports that Jesus died on the Day of Preparation for Passover, he is referring to the Day of Preparation for Unleavened Bread on Nissan 14.
John says no such thing. He says:

"It was just before the Passover feast" (nomenclature for Feast of Unleavened Bread, Nissan 15, per your statement above in red).
So John is saying that it was just before the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Nissan 15), which was the Day of Preparation for that feast (Nissan 14),
which was the day of Passover, and the day Jesus was crucified.

And regarding the Passover meal having not been eaten, John records five chapters (13-17) of the Passover meal which Jesus ate with them.
You have not reckoned with the fact that the Feast of Unleavened Bread was commonly called Passover, although it was not Passover (Lk 22:1).
Therefore, John is referring to the Feast of Unleavened Bread when he uses the term Passover.
You are so misinformed. . .Jewish practice after the ascension of Jesus in 30 AD is irrelevant.

You have the facts of nomenclature, which you stated above in red, but you don't know how to put them together.
They are just isolated facts to you, which have no bearing on one another.
Passover means Feast of Unleavened Bread (Lk 22:1). John is referring to the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
The names are interchangeable, the feasts are not. The Feast of Unleavened Bread was called the Passover (Lk 22:1), it was not the Passover itself.
You haven't reckoned with the nomenclature, where the Feast of Unleavened Bread is called Passover (Lk 22:1), it is not Passover itself.
The vast majority of what you stated is repetition over and over of the same misinformation. It has all been addressed previously once,
but you can't understand it because you see the facts, which you acknowledge above in red, as isolated, and do not see their bearing on one another.

I've done all I can in this regard. . .I'll let Pegg give it a try.

You are so misinformed.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Maybe you want to look at how Jews kept days. At sundown on Nissan 13th, the day changed to Nissan 14. Days were kept as sundown to sundown. Thus, on Nissan 13th, as Jewish tradition states, the Passover lamb was sacrificed and prepared, hence the title, Day of Preparation for the Passover.

It was the on Nissan 14 that the Passover meal was eaten.

You're not much better than smokydot.

The passover lamb was sacrificed and prepared on the 14th of Nisan. And at sundown, when it became the 15th, the lamb was then eaten.

 

[dogsgod]

Not exactly. We know very little about the Sanhedrin during the first century.

So you don't see a problem with Jewish high priests in Jerusalem appealing to the Roman authorities for a trial and execution to be held during Passover celebrations. OK, whatever.

 

[Poisonshady313]

its quite simple to refute that Jesus died on a sabbath. Mosaic law did not permit anyone to be staked on a sabbath. Criminals had to be removed from their stakes before the sabbath as
Deuteronomy 21:23 states: "...his dead body should not stay all night on the stake; but you should by all means bury him on that day..."

this is why the guards had to break the legs of those on the stakes besides Jesus, because they had to be taken down before sundown...before the Sabbath began.

What makes you figure the Romans were beholden to Mosaic law?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Exodus 12:6 It shall be yours for examination until the fourteenth day of this month; the entire congregation of the assembly of Israel shall slaughter it in the afternoon.


Ok. Simple. The lamb is slaughtered on the 14th in the afternoon.

Exodus 12:8 They shall eat the flesh on that night - roasted over the fire - and unleavened bread; with bitter herbs shall they eat it.

When it's the 14th, and then the sun sets, it becomes the 15th. The Passover meal... the feast of unleavened bread... is eaten on the 15th.


Why in the hell did anybody start talking about the 13th? Exodus is crystal clear.

 

[fallingblood]

Exodus 12:6 It shall be yours for examination until the fourteenth day of this month; the entire congregation of the assembly of Israel shall slaughter it in the afternoon.


Ok. Simple. The lamb is slaughtered on the 14th in the afternoon.

Exodus 12:8 They shall eat the flesh on that night - roasted over the fire - and unleavened bread; with bitter herbs shall they eat it.

When it's the 14th, and then the sun sets, it becomes the 15th. The Passover meal... the feast of unleavened bread... is eaten on the 15th.


Why in the hell did anybody start talking about the 13th? Exodus is crystal clear.

Honestly, I had not idea on the exact days. I was just assuming Smokydot had the right days of the month correct. I just knew that the Passover lamb was sacrificed on the day before Passover. I should have done more research on the actual days of the month that they corresponded to, but thanks for pointing it all out.