What Did Jesus Actually Do?

[Jeremiah Ames]

The movement, like many messianic movements before and after it, would have died imo if not for Paul. I think Jesus himself had very little impact upon it and it's doubtful he intended to create a new religion.

imo, Jesus did not start the movement so many Christians call Christianity today.
It doesn’t appear to me that Paul did either, but many people after Paul focused on his writings and ended up creating Christianity.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

These don't tell me what he did though; they tell me what people believe he did. I mean, that's fine, I have no problem with people believing stuff; I'm just asking, since no-one seems to know, what he did on a level that both Christians and non-Christians can agree, even on basic things.

Well, since we all have the same information, I cannot possibly provide you with anything new.

I wish I could.

 

[Dawnofhope]

From a historical standpoint, what, in his own lifetime, did Jesus of Nazareth achieve? I am having trouble figuring this out, because I can see objectively that Muhammad had a huge impact upon not only his own society but others, all within his lifetime. That the impact was either good or bad is not my point here, but that had had one. Baha'u'llah had some direct impacts, if small, upon his society. In contrast, I can't think of anything Jesus did that no-one else could have done.

He was born, he preached, he was executed.

This is probably going to turn into an 'It was all Paul not Jesus' thread, but have at it anyway.

He taught Judaism but reframed the central Teachings making it much more accessible to a wider audience. To what extent He was faithful to the Tanakh is debatable. What isn't in doubt is how His Teachings as recorded in the Gospels have been a source of inspiration to peoples of the world across a broad range of cultures. Of course He is not unique in this regard. Jesus stands alongside Muhammad and Buddha who had a similar degree of influence through the legacy of what they taught and as passed down through subsequent generations.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

From a historical standpoint, what, in his own lifetime, did Jesus of Nazareth achieve? I am having trouble figuring this out, because I can see objectively that Muhammad had a huge impact upon not only his own society but others, all within his lifetime. That the impact was either good or bad is not my point here, but that had had one. Baha'u'llah had some direct impacts, if small, upon his society. In contrast, I can't think of anything Jesus did that no-one else could have done.

He was born, he preached, he was executed.

This is probably going to turn into an 'It was all Paul not Jesus' thread, but have at it anyway.

I see that Baha'u'llah has answered your question directly in this quote about Jesus the Christ;

"Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.
We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.........We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world...."

Thus it appears that much was achieved.

Regards Tony

 

[Rival]

I see that Baha'u'llah has answered your question directly in this quote aboy Jesus the Christ;

"Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.
We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.
Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him..."

Thus it appears that much was achieved.

Regards Tony

This is your belief.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is your belief.

Well it is true or not true, thus it goes beyond belief.

Where does art come from? Where does the power of mind come from?

Regards Tony

 

[Rival]

Well it is true or not true, thus it goes beyond belief.

Where does art come from? Where does the power of mind come from?

Regards Tony

Mind the breadcrumbs in the puddle you're about to step in, the water doesn't look too joyful because of the fairies.

 

[Shantanu]

By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things.

How was this possible? What fresh capacity was infused into all created things. For that matter who would sacrifice himself for God. It must be a cruel God who expects humans to sacrifice themselves for the benefit of God. The best we can do is to live our lives in dharma (duties and righteous actions) and survive for as long as possible. That is the God I know to exist who helps me survive in dignity on a daily basis, not die to infuse fresh capacity into all created things by some magical way.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Mind the breadcrumbs in the puddle you're about to step in, the water doesn't look too joyful because of the fairies.

That is why you have to ask a question when the answer is as obvious as the noon day sun, you are not after an answer but to play a game.

One only has to look at history and the Influence of Jesus the Christ and the Bible, it is plain to see, some did good in that Name, some did not so good in that name, but change the world it did.

Over, but not out, Tony

 

[Rival]

That is why you have to ask a question when the answer is as obvious as the noon day sun, you are not after an answer but to play a game.

One only has to look at history and the Influence of Jesus the Christ and the Bible, it is plain to see, some did good in that Name, some did not so good in that name, but change the world it did.

Over, but out, Tony

I'm not playing; I'm seriously asking what did Jesus do that one needn't be a Christian to know, to make him deserve his place in history? Muhammad managed to unite the Arabian tribes, bring monotheism and win countless wars all within his lifetime - one need not be a Muslim to know this. I am asking what Jesus did.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How was this possible? What fresh capacity was infused into all created things. For that matter who would sacrifice himself for God. It must be a cruel God who expects humans to sacrifice themselves for the benefit of God. The best we can do is to live our lives in dharma (duties and righteous actions) and survive for as long as possible. That is the God I know to exist who helps me survive in dignity on a daily basis, not die to infuse fresh capacity into all created things by some magical way.

The fresh capacity enables us to live our lives in "duties and righteous actions".

It is the connection to the Spirit of Christ that brings those actions from us. We may not know it by that name, we may call it by another name or think we are the source, but when we bring the good from within to become a reality into this world, this is the Spirit that comes from us.

It is not our light, we draw it as if from a well.

Regards Tony

 

[Kenny]

Could you at least write some of it...?

Ever read the bible?

 

[Rival]

Ever read the bible?

Yes, and by this I assume you mean the Christian writings mostly. Again, as I've said, this is what people believe. As I've said, I don't need to believe things about Muhammad, I know he did these things; but in order to believe what I'm told about Jesus I'd be some sort of Christian at least. I can know that Muhammad united Arabian tribes without being a Muslim; I cannot believe that Jesus walked on water or changed water to wine without some level of belief.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm not playing; I'm seriously asking what did Jesus do that one needn't be a Christian to know, to make him deserve his place in history? Muhammad managed to unite the Arabian tribes, bring monotheism and win countless wars all within his lifetime - one need not be a Muslim to know this. I am asking what Jesus did.

That is more like it. He inspired generations of people to be the best they can, he enabled them to conquer self and thus contribute to building strong lasting communities, the greatest foundation to Nation building, thus Muhammad could then build Nations on what Christ had already put in place.

The quote I posted is what minds are inspired to be with by Christ. Art, Architecture, science etc.

It is when we forget Christ that this progress becomes dark and centered back in self again.

Regards Tony

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Jesus was a practicing Jew and even made racist remarks against Gentiles.

Considering orthodox Judaism is somewhat exclusive anyway, in relation to that, where in biblical text does it indicate that Jesus was "racist?"

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Yes, and by this I assume you mean the Christian writings mostly. Again, as I've said, this is what people believe. As I've said, I don't need to believe things about Muhammad, I know he did these things; but in order to believe what I'm told about Jesus I'd be some sort of Christian at least. I can know that Muhammad united Arabian tribes without being a Muslim; I cannot believe that Jesus walked on water or changed water to wine without some level of belief.

I stated before that I cannot tell you anything about Jesus that you don’t know or can easily find for yourself.

However, regarding some of the things that people believe:

Lets talk miracles, for one. I assume that you believe he did NOT perform any miracles. You can believe that, but you can’t ‘know’ it. There is documentation stating that he did, but you don’t believe the documentation, yet you believe documentation regarding things that Mohammed did. That is ok.
Now for me, does it matter if he did or did not perform miracles?
Absolutely not. So if you say he DID NOT perform miracles, I would say, I have no evidence that would make me disagree with you. I have read the stories of him performing miracles, and people would continue to ask for more miracles to prove he was who he claimed to be. If he came to you today and performed a miracle in front of you, it’s quite possible you would not believe it.
If you did, and you wrote about it or told someone else, they would most likely not believe you. I would only believe what I can see clearly. I would be skeptical of any alleged ‘miracles’.

Now I am wondering if you believe the stories of the Tanakh?
I find the stories there, regarding many characters, more difficult to believe than the stories of Jesus in the gospels. I’m not saying I don’t believe them, just that they are more amazing than stories of Jesus in the gospels.

So, what can we know, or not know FOR SURE from a time so distant in the past? I will not say ‘I know’ something happened for sure 2000 years ago, nor will I say ‘I know’ something didn’t happen for sure.

 

[Spartan]

This comment raises 2 questions for me.

Who is satan?

The devil.

For all the people living on earth prior to Jesus, are they all doomed to being ‘unsaved unto eternal life’?

Some are, some aren't. Read Genesis 15:6. Righteousness and justification by faith. Same as in the New Testament, except now they know who God is (Christ).

Bonus question: How is the world better today?

I can answer that this way: Next time you're down and out, try finding a BITTER ATHEIST'S HOMELESS SHELTER!

 

[Rival]

Lets talk miracles, for one. I assume that you believe he did NOT perform any miracles. You can believe that, but you can’t ‘know’ it. There is documentation stating that he did, but you don’t believe the documentation, yet you believe documentation regarding things that Mohammed did. That is ok.

He probably did, just like Pharaoh's magicians did. I believe what Muhammad did because I don't need to 'believe' he did those things; I can tell from outside sources that these things occurred in Arabia around the time Muhammad lived. We know there came a united Arab force, we know that they were monotheists. I do not 'know' that Jesus walked on water. I do not need to take anyone's word for these things about Muhammad - many things about Muhammad I do, and will not believe - but there are things that show in the historical record.

Now for me, does it matter if he did or did not perform miracles?

For me: yes, as it's part of his claim to fame.

Absolutely not. So if you say he DID NOT perform miracles, I would say, I have no evidence that would make me disagree with you. I have read the stories of him performing miracles, and people would continue to ask for more miracles to prove he was who he claimed to be. If he came to you today and performed a miracle in front of you, it’s quite possible you would not believe it.
If you did, and you wrote about it or told someone else, they would most likely not believe you. I would only believe what I can see clearly. I would be skeptical of any alleged ‘miracles’.

Yep.

Now I am wondering if you believe the stories of the Tanakh?

Yes.

I find the stories there, regarding many characters, more difficult to believe than the stories of Jesus in the gospels. I’m not saying I don’t believe them, just that they are more amazing than stories of Jesus in the gospels.

They are. However, I am perfectly alright admitting this is just my belief. If someone asked me what did the historical Moshe do, I would say I have no evidence that Moshe existed, but I believe he gave the Israelites the Torah. I wouldn't sit here spouting rubbish. So to the secular person, Moshe probably did absolutely nothing or something totally different from what I think he did. However, as Jesus is the head of the largest religion on the planet and apparently claimed to be G-d, I would have thought he would have had a bit more on his C.V.

So, what can we know, or not know FOR SURE from a time so distant in the past? I will not say ‘I know’ something happened for sure 2000 years ago, nor will I say ‘I know’ something didn’t happen for sure.

Right!

 

[Audie]

You can't think of anything ... or you don't believe it? Threads like this are really a waste of my time. No offense; but the facts speak for themselves. If people are going to deny it all and sweep it under the rug they have that choice.

There is nobody,but nobody who can out-deny
a creationist.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

He probably did, just like Pharaoh's magicians did. I believe what Muhammad did because I don't need to 'believe' he did those things; I can tell from outside sources that these things occurred in Arabia around the time Muhammad lived. We know there came a united Arab force, we know that they were monotheists. I do not 'know' that Jesus walked on water. I do not need to take anyone's word for these things about Muhammad - many things about Muhammad I do, and will not believe - but there are things that show in the historical record.


For me: yes, as it's part of his claim to fame.


Yep.


Yes.


They are. However, I am perfectly alright admitting this is just my belief. If someone asked me what did the historical Moshe do, I would say I have no evidence a Moshe existed, but I believe he gave the Israelites the Torah. I wouldn't sit here spouting rubbish. So to the secular person, Moshe probably did absolutely nothing or something totally different from what I think he did. However, as Jesus is the head of the largest religion on the planet and apparently claimed to be G-d, I would have thought he would have had a bit more on his C.V.


Right!

I go along with you on everything except maybe one thing we may see differently. Jesus may be the head of the largest religion on the planet. But I ask some questions:

Did he place himself in that position? Or did people place him there? If people placed him there, what was their motive?

Does that mean that this large religion believes in Jesus? Lip service doesn’t count.

Does it mean that they follow Jesus? Again, no lip service please.

I may be swerving off the path of the OP. If so, I’m sorry.