Listen, the Catholic church happily tortured and burned anyone who did not toe their set of abominations. The pope gave an apology recently regarding two of those in question, Joan of Ark, and Galileo. He failed to return the money taken and give an apology for the thousands of unnamed victims. The fruit of your church is rotten (Matthew 7:16-20), such as the many protected pedaphile priest, laundering mafia money, taking from the widows, etc. The pope calls the witnesses against the church of the devil, and has a history of helping to cover up crimes against children. The church may make you feel shivers going down your leg, but it has a history of bad fruit (Matthew 7:19). Apparently the ship is going down (Matthew 7:26), and not all will escape (Zechariah 2:7). In the words of Yeshua, "repent; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matthew 4:17).
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What Did Jesus Mean?
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
Listen, the Catholic church happily tortured and burned anyone who did not toe their set of abominations. The pope gave an apology recently regarding two of those in question, Joan of Ark, and Galileo. He failed to return the money taken and give an apology for the thousands of unnamed victims. The fruit of your church is rotten (Matthew 7:16-20), such as the many protected pedaphile priest, laundering mafia money, taking from the widows, etc. The pope calls the witnesses against the church of the devil, and has a history of helping to cover up crimes against children. The church may make you feel shivers going down your leg, but it has a history of bad fruit (Matthew 7:19). Apparently the ship is going down (Matthew 7:26), and not all will escape (Zechariah 2:7). In the words of Yeshua, "repent; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matthew 4:17).
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Another lie as Mary is not "worshiped" ("veneration" is not the same), plus it's not because she was or is somehow ever viewed as being a "goddess" as that's forbiidden in the real Catholicism that you continually misrepresent and perpetually lie about. And these two lies fit well into your repeated lie about Catholics worshiping the sun, which you repeatedly claimed even after I linked you to various Catholic sites that clearly showed that this is not allowed in Catholicism. But, as with the above, Truth and honesty is rather clearly not part of your m.o.
Oh really?:
Luke.1[42] and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
The word "blessed" in that context means "special".
Well: Matthew 25:46: “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
2 Thessalonians 1:9: They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
Mark 9:43: If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Now, what I would expect from you, as you love playing word, games, is to say that the word "hell" is not found in the Koine Greek as "hell". You also play such games even with "God" as not being the politically-correct way of saying "Jehovah", which itself is not politically correct either since that is not God's name in Hebrew. You position makes no sense as you read your Bible in English and you post verses in English even though not a single verse in the earliest texts are written in English.
Words are symbolic, thus not the real thing being symbolized. The word "cow" is not really a cow, and the name "Jehovah" is not really YHWH, especially since there's no "J" sound in Hebrew plus we don't know which vowels were used in the original pronunciation.
So, this is what I mean by "real theology" versus what your JW leaders have taught you on these and some other matters. And yet you blindly believe them versus actually believing in what's found in the Bible, plus you lie and distort what Catholics really do teach.
So, maybe do the homework from more objective sources instead of blindly believing what the Watchtower Society tries to brainwash you with. You might be surprised in what you can learn if you actually do the studying from serious sources and from serious theologians.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It is against Catholic Canon Law to have any doctrine officially taught by the Church that is contradicted by scripture. However, as mentioned many times before, serious theologians and serious Bible students well know that interpretations can vary.
But it is you who ignores the scriptures when you perpetually judge others, including stereotyping groups, thus going against what any good parent would teach you is morally unacceptable. You recently judged John the Baptist and you stereotype and then condemn other churches, even though Jesus said "judge ye not...".
Paul even said that he was unwilling to judge himself, but you take it upon yourself to judge some other people in other denominations and religions.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe John the baptist is a greater prophet because he gets to introduce the Messiah in person.
John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
I believe those in the Kingdom get to see Jesus for eternity but John the Baptist for only a few years.
Matt 18:4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is a misinterpretation. All one may infer from his statement is that he does not believe himself to be Elijah.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I don't believe one may draw that from the statement. It is much too speculative. I believe the natural meaning of "born of women" is simply a distinction between humans and angels.
Deeje,Not sure this answers the questions Brick.
John played a vital role in the people's acceptance of Jesus as the Christ, so in that way he was an outstanding figure on earth....but why is he overshadowed by one who is least in the kingdom of God?
When Jesus spoke about John the Baptist, Jesus said, of all Born of Women, there is no greater than John the Baptist. This Scripture is a very misunderstood Scripture, because only a few understand God’s Purpose, for Jesus and the Saints, Holy Ones.
No on born of Woman was greater that John the Baptist, but a lesser one in the Kingdom of God is greater than he is, Matthew 11:11. If John had lived until after Jesus died this statement would not be true, but John died before Jesus did. Remember, all the ones in the Kingdom of Heaven are of the Anointed, they are Born of God, not just of Woman, John 1:11,12, John 3:3,5-8.
Consider Matthew 11:12, where we are told about the time from John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom is what men pressed forward to attain and those who tried hard attained it. Until after Jesus died the way to heaven had not been opened, which is what the mentioning of the Vail, Curtain was torn from top to bottom, at Jesus death. This same sign is also mentioned at Hebrews 9:8. These ones who became Anointed Christians after Jesus death, were given a token of the Holy Spirit, that made them KNOW for sure that their HOPE was. Heavenly one, to be Kings and Priests, with Jesus, Romans 8:14-17, Revelation 20:4-6. The TOKEN or Ernest Spirit that was given was like a down payment of Spirit, and when the would be resurrected that would be ALL Spirit, John 3:3-8. Notice, if you are Born from the Spirit you ARE Spirit. No flesh and blood person can be a part of The Heavenly Kingdom, 1Corinthians 15:50. At resurrection the ones who died as Anointed ones will be resurrected as Immortal Spirit. Creatures, and the ones alive when Jesus Comes again will, in the moment in the twinkling of an eye, be changed to Immortal Creatures also. They will meet the lord in the air and always be with the Lord, 1Thessalonians 4:13-17.
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It is by way of the Catholic canon that the Word of God, Scripture, has been made "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13), and that the words of men, and the false prophet Paul, have become scripture. From such a foundation, one can build their tower of babel.
You appear to use the "big lie" of the serpent for part of your foundation (Genesis 3:4). Jeremiah 31:30," everyone will die for their own iniquity", which would include your leader and teacher Paul. Being that Paul's gospel of grace/cross, is part of the "mark of the beast", the followers of such a wide path, would apparently be lead to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13). For those with the mark of the beast, who make it to the "awesome day of the LORD", they would be made to drink from the cup of the wrath of God (Revelation 14:10) & Revelation 20:4. Sorry for the bad news, but as we are at the "end of the age", all hidden will be brought to light.
We need to reconcile the contradictory statements made by Christ where He strongly suggests John the Baptist was Elijah with the statement John the Baptist made that he wasn't Elijah. We also need to consider the prophecy in Malachi 4:5 that suggests Elijah must come before the day of the Lord. My interpretation is similar to mainstream Christans who bother to give this any thought.
What can we learn from the life of Elijah?
What's your interpretation?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It's really not speculation at all since through various sources we well know what the attitude back then was, plus it shows up in different ways and through difference sources. The male/female relationship was hardly egalitarian culturally or scripturally.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
John wasn't around for the giving of the Holy Spirit in John 20. John says he needs to be baptized by Jesus... which means the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And as we all know, unless a man is born from above... by the breath of Jesus... he cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven.
If someone else has already given this answer, my apologies.
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OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
John said that his job was to baptize until he found the Christ upon whom the Holy Spirit remained. Having done that, he witnessed to Jesus the Christ. He called in the wilderness for those willing to repent... which is still a wilderness to this day. Many many followers of Christ have never learned what grace for grace means. Partially because of Paulianity snatching the word away, and giving it a meaning it never owned. And partially because grace is like the grace period... it is earned by conduct. Grace for grace means forgiven so that we may forgive.
Matthew 11:12 seems to mean the vipers John and Jesus both mention... John accuses them of fleeing from the wrath... Babylon might well have been the direction they were even then coming from. Paul is the perfect example [if anything can be called perfect about such a double-minded thief] of taking the Kingdom by force... he says he taught the Kingdom, which a flat-out lie. That's like saying you can teach Homer, without ever quoting the Iliad. More than a few of modern mankind have noticed that Jesus never gets a word in edgewise, in the gospel of Paul.
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OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Not to mention what's been happening for a very long time in South America... and what happened to Canada's indigenes and the Bosnian Genocide.
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Anna Therese
Member
The Bible commentary (Douay-Rheims Haydock) says that the comparison is only between John and the ancient prophets, to signify that John was greater than any of the other prophets, at least by his office of being the immediate precursor of the Messias. The comparison cannot be extended to Christ Himself, who was both God and man, nor to His blessed Virgin Mother; nor need we understand it of His apostles.
Maybe, you should know that only he and maybe Jehovah and anyone with whom Jehovah will tell can know that he is "uncomfortable" We are wondering how in the world do you know? Is Jehovah talking to you?.
Jesus did not have anyone else to compare John to....so yes he was greater than all the prophets who went before him and his mission was like that of Elijah, boldly proclaiming the coming of their Messiah. So how does John become less than a lesser one in the Kingdom if there are none greater than he is?
Do you have scripture to support this belief? Where will I find that Jesus is both God and man?
It is true that Jesus was born of a virgin mother, but there is nothing to state that her marriage to Joseph was not as consecrated as any other Jewish marriage and blessed with many children? Jesus had siblings. (Mark 6:3) Was there some reason why the church wanted to keep her ever virgin?
It says in the Douay of Mary...."And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."
Or in the NRSV Catholic Edition..."but had no marital relations with her until she had borne a son; and he named him Jesus."
The word "until" means that Joseph and Mary had normal sexual relations after Jesus was born.
Since the apostles and all the first disciples were heaven bound, anointed with God's spirit at Pentecost to rule with Jesus in his Kingdom, then John is a lesser one because he died before Jesus opened the way to heaven. John will therefore have an earthly resurrection like all the other pre-Christian men and women of faith. (John 5:28-29)
John 5:28-29 is with respect to a day of judgment, whereas "those who did good deeds, to the resurrection of life, and those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of of judgment" (John 5:29). It has nothing to do with "Pentecost". Those who "had been beheaded" because of the "word of God", such as John the Baptist, or do not have the mark of the beast, such as Daniel, or the early true followers of Yeshua, have not "came to life" (Revelation 20:4), and reign with "Christ for a thousand years".
Supposedly Peter, one of the first disciples, who was alive at the time of the Pentecost, has his bones buried in Rome. According to your discourse, the only ones who have gone to your imagined heavenly kingdom, are those who died in the 50 days previous to Pentecost.
The resurrection of John 5:28-29 is after the day of judgment, when Christ has established his kingdom over a cleansed earth, when he calls the dead from their graves....those who are righteous like John the Baptist and his earthly father Joseph will be among those raised to life, as will all of God's pre-Christian servants like Noah, Abraham, Daniel and David. These were not taken into the new covenant with Jesus on the night of his last Passover and so I believe that they will be given positions in the earthly realm of God's heavenly Kingdom. Pentecost was when the ones chosen to rule with Christ got their anointing.
The mark of the beast is only spoken about in Revelation, so would not apply until the "time of the end" .Only those found without the mark will survive the end times, the end of which is fast approaching according to my expectations.
I have no idea what you are talking about. What does it matter where a person's bones end up? Those of the heavenly resurrection are given new spirit bodies, so God does not need a single molecule of their remains to resurrect them. The spiritual resurrection has begun, although not all of the bride are yet in heaven at this time. Jesus said he was going ti heaven to prepare a place for his "joint-heirs".
The ones resurrected back to the earth will follow later because the heavenly resurrection comes first. (Revelation 20:6)
The earthly resurrection will see all those in their graves returned to life.....some will be on notice to change their ways.
One is anointed whenever God so chooses. The anointing of the "children" of 1 John 2:27 has nothing to do with Pentecost, and they are required to abide in what "you heard from the beginning". (1 John 2:24). The ones who will rule for 1000 years includes Daniel, who did not "worship the beast", and remains at "rest" until the "end of the age".
There is no "spiritual resurrection". There is a time when the bones will come out of their graves and the breath of life will bring them back to life (Ezekiel 37:9). The only "spiritual resurrection"/ revival, will be as per Ezekiel 36:26, when the "house of Israel" will be gathered from the nations (Ezekiel 36:24), and given a "new heart and a new spirit" (Ezekiel 36:26).
There are no brides in heaven, for the marriage feast hasn't even happened. You still have the guest with improper clothing, and brides shopping for oil.
Revelation 17:10 incudes the 6th head of the beast/king who "is", which precedes the "end times". Daniel lived in the time of the 1st head of the beast, and he refused to worship the beast Nebuchadnezzar, the "head of gold", which entitles him to rule for 1000 years (Revelation 20:4). The beast with two horns like a lamb, was the "another" king of Daniel 7:24, who followed the 6th head of the beast who had 10 horns, and is who instituted the Roman church in 325 AD. His followers, who kept his laws and dogmas, carry the mark of the beast. That would include the majority of the Christian religion.
Those with the mark of the beast will be "tormented with fire and brimstone" (Revelation 14:10), but while 1/3 of mankind is "killed by "fire smoke and brimstone" (Revelation 9:18), there will be survivors, "who were not killed", and will still not repent (Revelation 9:21). The "nations"/Gentiles will be ruled by a "rod of iron" (Revelation 19:15).