What did Jesus the "Messiah" Sacrifice?

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Jesus Christ in my opinion was nothing more than a philosopher in a troubled time and not the son of any god. I think he wanted to help people, to give them hope in a seemingly hopeless time. Many with great political power didn't like what he was doing and what he had to say. He became an outlaw. Jesus died because he had no choice as a convicted criminal of the state. In my opinion, Christ sacrificed nothing.

He did, however, become a symbol for the rise of a new cult called Christianity. They say how could millions of people be wrong. Well, millions of people used to think the Earth was flat and that it was the center of the Universe.

/Adramelek\

Thank you :yes:
That is what I believe. But me personally, I don't think Jesus was a real person. I may be wrong though, I just haven't seen any documented evidence that he was.

I don't see how someone who dies and supposedly goes to a "perfect paradise" sacrificed anything.

 

[Adramelek]

Ave ApostleofLucifer!

You make a good point my friend. It is also worth noting that Adam, Eve, Moses, Noah, David, Goliath, etc., are all fictitious characters. There is no historical proof that any of them ever existed, only faith.

/Adramelek\

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I believe the most succinct version of the christian thesis I have heard goes as follows - God sacrificed himself to himself so that he might change a rule that he made himself.

It doesn't make a lot of sense but making sense isn't exactly the focus of christianity.

And if 'Jesus' did exist, he sure did a good job of erasing any historical footprints he really SHOULD have left. Maybe he was a ninja?

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Ave ApostleofLucifer!

You make a good point my friend. It is also worth noting that Adam, Eve, Moses, Noah, David, Goliath, etc., are all fictitious characters. There is no historical proof that any of them ever existed, only faith.

/Adramelek\

Exactly

Plus, many of the stories in the bible have a striking similarity to religions that predate christianity and even judaism, so for me the bible is a "myth", as it is said Sumerian Mythology, Norse Mythology, Greek Mythology, etc. And since those "mythologies" are what christianity is similar to, would that not also make it "Christian Mythology"?

 

[septimus]

Darkness of skin irrelevant. Darkness of heart bad. Simple.

Thank God everyday for His Son. Thank God everyday for His Son's sacrifice. As He said, he didn't have to do it. Don't doubt Him. Don't doubt the truth.

Nobody. Count them. That's right. No fingers required. Nobody is above God. Nobody.

There are people - I am one of them - who were there. Who still feel the distress of witnessing His sacrifice. We are here now. It was real. The misuse of His name - often by the churches, and the erasing of His footprints - ever since makes that no less real. As some "fictitious characters" bear witness to His, and their own presence now and into the future, you can move beyond opinion as you need to.

For now, I will send you love and pray for you.

Love and Peace

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Darkness of skin irrelevant. Darkness of heart bad. Simple.

Thank God everyday for His Son. Thank God everyday for His Son's sacrifice. As He said, he didn't have to do it. Don't doubt Him. Don't doubt the truth.

Nobody. Count them. That's right. No fingers required. Nobody is above God. Nobody.

There are people - I am one of them - who were there. Who still feel the distress of witnessing His sacrifice. We are here now. It was real. The misuse of His name - often by the churches, and the erasing of His footprints - ever since makes that no less real. As some "fictitious characters" bear witness to His, and their own presence now and into the future, you can move beyond opinion as you need to.

For now, I will send you love and pray for you.

Love and Peace

I don't know where the darkness of skin part came in this discussion.

And not to sound harsh, but if you would not mind, I would appreciate if you did not pray for me. I do not want nor need these prayers, thank you in advance.

In my opinion, all humans are above the Judeo-Christian god. Every last one of them. I do not doubt the truth, I know the truth.

"Truth is truth, beyond the god" - Great quote from a great band, Celestial Bloodshed.

Again, I was only wondering what it is that he sacrificed. His life on earth, for a perfect life in heaven is in my opinion, no sacrifice, but a selfish act.

 

[arimoff]

I don't know where the darkness of skin part came in this discussion.

And not to sound harsh, but if you would not mind, I would appreciate if you did not pray for me. I do not want nor need these prayers, thank you in advance.

In my opinion, all humans are above the Judeo-Christian god. Every last one of them. I do not doubt the truth, I know the truth.

"Truth is truth, beyond the god" - Great quote from a great band, Celestial Bloodshed.

Again, I was only wondering what it is that he sacrificed. His life on earth, for a perfect life in heaven is in my opinion, no sacrifice, but a selfish act.

Can we please not call it Judeo-Christian, it is totally up to you to believe or not believe in anything you want, but Judaism and Christianity is totally to different ideas and it is not proper to put them in the same pot, thank you.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Can we please not call it Judeo-Christian, it is totally up to you to believe or not believe in anything you want, but Judaism and Christianity is totally to different ideas and it is not proper to put them in the same pot, thank you.

I was referring to the god, who is the same.

 

[septimus]

"Come. As you are. As you were. As I want you to be." - Quote from a great band, one people (outside their immediate family) have actually heard of.
"All you need is love" - Quote from a great band, one people (outside their immediate family) have heard of.

I'm not above God. I know of no human who is. I know no human is.

I'd appreciate people who've never been tortured to death on a wooden cross refraining from the suggestion that this could have been anything but a sacrifice.

 

[arimoff]

I was referring to the god, who is the same.

no it is not the same G-D

 

[Xafwak]

"Come. As you are. As you were. As I want you to be." - Quote from a great band, one people (outside their immediate family) have actually heard of.
"All you need is love" - Quote from a great band, one people (outside their immediate family) have heard of.

I'm not above God. I know of no human who is. I know no human is.

I'd appreciate people who've never been tortured to death on a wooden cross refraining from the suggestion that this could have been anything but a sacrifice.

If I knew I would get to an eternal paradise for clinging nailed on a wooden cross for a day, I would do it immediately. I would hang there for a week if I had to. And I wouldn´t feel I´ve sacrificed anything.

But this is theology of a religion which I don´t believe in, so I don´t really need to rationalize it to myself.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

If I knew I would get to an eternal paradise for clinging nailed on a wooden cross for a day, I would do it immediately. I would hang there for a week if I had to. And I wouldn´t feel I´ve sacrificed anything.

But this is theology of a religion which I don´t believe in, so I don´t really need to rationalize it to myself.

I agree. As far as I knew, I thought christians would do whatever it takes to get to heaven. If they could hang on a cross for a few hours to make certain that they get to heaven, wouldn't they? In my opinion, that is no sacrifice.

 

[septimus]

You seem to be struggling with the difference between Christ and Christian. The man. The followers. One. Many.

Love everybody. Now.

You have my love and are in my prayers. Now. Always.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

You seem to be struggling with the difference between Christ and Christian. The man. The followers. One. Many.

Love everybody. Now.

You have my love and are in my prayers. Now. Always.

I am aware of the difference. I am saying that I am sure that almost anyone who wants to make it to heaven would do exactly what jesus supposedly did to get a free ticket to heaven.

Please exclude me from your prayers, I would appreciate if you would not pray for me. I'm not trying to be rude, those are just my wishes.

 

[septimus]

"Our Father who art in Heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name
Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done
On Earth as it is in Heaven
Give us this day our daily bread
Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us
Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil
For Thine is the Kingdom, the power and the glory
Forever and ever"

- my first prayer every morning, my last every night. I love these words. They are not mine to change. Certainly not for the purpose of excluding somebody who has a great need - regardless of their "wishes" - to be included. Everybody is in my prayers. Everybody has my love.

I don't talk about His sacrifice as theology. I don't talk about His sacrifice out of religion. I don't talk about his sacrifice out of rationalisation. I speak with tears in my eyes and pain in my heart of a 2000 year old memory. I speak with certain knowledge that He has returned. If you've never witnessed such a thing how can you pretend to understand sacrifice?

 

[McBell]

If you've never witnessed such a thing how can you pretend to understand sacrifice?

You don't seem to be having any problem....

 

[septimus]

Now the vultures have come I must leave them to the dead carcass until the living are many
And it was said, 'they will hate me and so they will hate you for they are not of God, nor of the spirit, but of the soul and praise of men of the soul of which they cling'
Here is a man who knows and who sees, so he speaks to the blind of whom speak in his name, yet when the man who knows the name speaks, they cannot hear, for they are blinded by their selfish desires
I come here to reveal the name in living for who I have seen with my eyes and felt with my heart. You chose to remain dead to a dead man that will never be unless you wake up and see his word on this very page as now I do quote, and the word of my own which is born from the same.

 

[McBell]

Now the vultures have come I must leave them to the dead carcass until the living are many
And it was said, 'they will hate me and so they will hate you for they are not of God, nor of the spirit, but of the soul and praise of men of the soul of which they cling'
Here is a man who knows and who sees, so he speaks to the blind of whom speak in his name, yet when the man who knows the name speaks, they cannot hear, for they are blinded by their selfish desires
I come here to reveal the name in living for who I have seen with my eyes and felt with my heart. You chose to remain dead to a dead man that will never be unless you wake up and see his word on this very page as now I do quote, and the word of my own which is born from the same.

Thank you for so successfully proving my point...

 

[Adramelek]

Plus, many of the stories in the bible have a striking similarity to religions that predate christianity and even judaism, so for me the bible is a "myth", as it is said Sumerian Mythology, Norse Mythology, Greek Mythology, etc. And since those "mythologies" are what christianity is similar to, would that not also make it "Christian Mythology"?

Like all religions, Christianity, Islam, etc, are cults which happen to have millions of followers. Many of its mythologies are indeed taken from other much more ancient mythologies such as ancient Egypt. If one takes the time to study Egyptian mythology, as well as, the others you mentioned and the JudaoChristian mythos they would indeed find striking similarities. I'm not going to site any examples because I'm not going to do the work for them. But yes, the christian bible is pure mythology.

Xeper em Ma'at.
/Adramelek\

 

[Adramelek]

OK, I'll give four examples:

I. Set (Egyptian) slaying his brother Osiris - Cain slaying Abel.

II. Osiris (Egyptian) returning from the dead. Christ's resurrection after being crusified.

III. Prometheus (Greek) giving the forbiden knowledge of the gods to man, and then being punished by Zeus - Lucifer giving Adam and Eve the forbiden knowledge of good and evil. Lucifer being punished by God.

IV. Fenriz (Norse) the Wolf of Ragnarok being chained by the gods, and who will be unleashed upon the world in the "end times" Ragnarok. Satan, condemned to Hell, but will be unleashed upon the world during Armageddon.

Anybody else care to share some more examples?

/Adramelek\