What did they die for?

[Nakosis]

I just came back from holidays and one of the first news I saw was the taking over of Afghanistan by the Taliban. I'm shocked.
So, 20 years of war, a couple of trillion dollars and thousands of lives later, this is it?
I wonder what the families and friends of the soldiers who died in that war must be feeling. Their loved ones went there believing they were going to fight for freedom. In the end, what did they die for?

To give Afghan a chance. Which apparently was a waste of time.
Humans suck at predicting the future. Afterwards what should have been the correct choices can be seen.
We have an ideal of individual freedom and liberty which unfortunately is not shared by everyone.
We will probably make the same mistake again because we assume freedom and liberty is what everyone wants.
It has to be sown in the right environment. We hoped it would find fertile soil, but there is never a guarantee.

 

[Aupmanyav]

U.S. foreign policy is markedly corrupt and abusive. It renders the U.S. incapable of claiming much higher moral ground on the international stage than countries like China, Russia, and Iran.

Forget about morality, they did not know how to handle the situation. Taliban roots, training, supplies and refuge was in Pakistan. They should have handled Pakistan first.

Change has to come from the Afghan people themselves.
It may be that this 20 year interlude will have sowed the seeds of that change, ..

High hopes. They have 350 thousand US-trained soldiers equipped with US arms, many of whom will join Taliban. They will easily take care of those who want change.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I just came back from holidays and one of the first news I saw was the taking over of Afghanistan by the Taliban. I'm shocked.
So, 20 years of war, a couple of trillion dollars and thousands of lives later, this is it?
I wonder what the families and friends of the soldiers who died in that war must be feeling. Their loved ones went there believing they were going to fight for freedom. In the end, what did they die for?

A few billionaires (and their political enablers) in the weapons business became richer.

Sorry, but do you really think it was for some good purpose?

People have lived their lives in that country for thousands of years, and they will continue in the future. Why do some people need to change how others live their lives?

 

[Estro Felino]

To give Afghan a chance. Which apparently was a waste of time.
Humans suck at predicting the future. Afterwards what should have been the correct choices can be seen.
We have an ideal of individual freedom and liberty which unfortunately is not shared by everyone.
We will probably make the same mistake again because we assume freedom and liberty is what everyone wants.
It has to be sown in the right environment. We hoped it would find fertile soil, but there is never a guarantee.

I don't think they will let them help us.
The more we try to westernize the world, the more they do anything to be different.
We ought to respect nations' freedom of self-determination.

 

[pearl]

Just think you've kept all the corporations that supply weapons/logistics/etc in business.
Wars are necessary or the likes of Halliburton go bust

I guess we never heeded Eisenhower's warning about the 'industrial military complex'.
President Eisenhower warns of military-industrial complex - HISTORY

 

[metis]

I just came back from holidays and one of the first news I saw was the taking over of Afghanistan by the Taliban. I'm shocked.
So, 20 years of war, a couple of trillion dollars and thousands of lives later, this is it?
I wonder what the families and friends of the soldiers who died in that war must be feeling. Their loved ones went there believing they were going to fight for freedom. In the end, what did they die for?

The mistake was trying to nation-build when all forces throughout history have never been able to conquer and then control that region.

The bottom line: They live there--we don't-- so we need to get this through our arrogance and thick skulls.

 

[Nakosis]

I don't think they want to be helped.
The more we try to westernize the world, the more they do anything to be different than us.

We want freedom and equality now. They are looking for benefits in the afterlife.

 

[Polymath257]

I don't think they want to be helped.
The more we try to westernize the world, the more they do anything to be different than us.

Some wanted help. Just not the help we offered.

 

[Secret Chief]

what did they die for?

When someone joins the armed forces what do they think is the purpose of the armed forces, how is that purpose manifested and what role in that does the person expect to play?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In the end, what did they die for?

I do not think we can take away the spirit of the intention.

All that have fought for Peace and a fair go for all people of all Nations are forever etched in our praise and gratitude.

That this battle was lost is just showing us that only a worldwide effort of ridding the world of tyrants, that have a distorted self based agenda, will ultimately succeed.

This offer was given to the world back at the end of the 1800's, prior to the First world war, I wonder now if it is even more urgent, maybe we can prevent a 3rd world war?

"The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny."

Each National Government must be the voice of all its citizens, not a forced control of a group or radical men.

There appears there is yet to be much more conflict before the Nations sit down and talk peace.

So far we have tried, we have had the League of Nations after the first world war, then followed by the United Nations after the 2nd world war, both toothless tigers. Will it take a 3rd war and universal destruction to have that Union of Nations, that I see God has said is needed?

Regards Tony

 

[Valjean]

I just came back from holidays and one of the first news I saw was the taking over of Afghanistan by the Taliban. I'm shocked.
So, 20 years of war, a couple of trillion dollars and thousands of lives later, this is it?
I wonder what the families and friends of the soldiers who died in that war must be feeling. Their loved ones went there believing they were going to fight for freedom. In the end, what did they die for?

This is what we've been doing for >100 years, except we used to be more successful. Vietnam should have been a lesson for us. Heck, we should have listened to Eisenhower.

Fight for freedom?! When have we fought for freedom lately? Since WWII we've been busy suppressing democratic governments, installing puppet rulers and supporting coöperative. autocrats.

 

[Valjean]

Right. I think this was always about the political capital and the war profiteering that so many politicians stood to benefit from, along with most of their friends and political donors. We should've tried to kill Bin Laden, not occupy a country indefinitely, but boy did an occupation pay out lots of contracts to US companies. It also let the GOP call Democrats "anti-American" whenever they tried to object to overspending, corruption, and pet amendments added on to emergency spending bills.

Kill Bin Ladin? Without a trial?That doesn't sound like justice.
We should have taken the Taliban up on their multiple offers to turn Bin Ladin over to a third country or the world court, (not reported in US mainstream press). But we didn't really care about Bin Ladin. We wanted war, and he was a good, pro-war propaganda symbol.
Bush rejects Taliban offer to surrender bin Laden
You're right. War was profitable for the Owner Class.

And I'm wondering if the Afghan army was always a sham, and the soldiers were more sympathetic to the Taliban than any foreign ideals of democracy and human rights. I suspect they were happy to let us build up and secure their country, but ultimately happier putting women in bags. You can't just change a nation's culture with a military occupation, and I think history bears that out pretty clearly.

But we were changing Middle-Eastern culture -- 50 years ago. They were westernizing rapidly. It was only when we became heavy handed and began bullying that they were motivated to turn back the clock to the 1400s.

Women in Afghanistan were not always under house arrest and forbidden by law to leave their ...pinterest.com
465 × 508

I think this collapse would've happened whether we withdrew our forces 10 years ago or 50 years from now. I only wish we could've allowed time for everyone to leave first who wanted to.

We had a wolf by the ears; damned if we stayed and damned if we left.

 

[Valjean]

Many feel betrayed by the Biden Administration.

Why Biden? Why not Bush, Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz? They got us into all this. They wanted war. It wasn't Biden's fault that we got mired in an impossible situation.

 

[metis]

Why Biden? Why not Bush, Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz? They got us into all this. They wanted war. It wasn't Biden's fault that we got mired in an impossible situation.

Bingo! Expecting that we could turn Afghanistan into a Jeffersonian democracy is about as crazy as crazy could be. As the old folk song goes, "When will we ever learn, ...".

 

[Valjean]

"We are fighting terrorism there so it doesn't come to our shores" was something I heard a lot of. Bull****. Our involvement made this situation into what it is now. Terrorism has been spiraling out if control and has been only getting more deeply entrenched because of us and what we are doing. Now the inevitable seems to have unfolded. Time to reap what we've sown! The chickens have come home to roost! [I read that book ]

It was our foreign adventurism that created the anti-American animosity in the region to begin with. Noöne seems interested in why they resent us. We create the very terrorists that the military claims to protect us from.

 

[Kooky]

Kill Bin Ladin? Without a trial?That doesn't sound like justice.
We should have taken the Taliban up on their multiple offers to turn Bin Ladin over to a third country or the world court, (not reported in US mainstream press). But we didn't really care about Bin Ladin. We wanted war, and he was a good, pro-war propaganda symbol.
Bush rejects Taliban offer to surrender bin Laden
You're right. War was profitable for the Owner Class.
But we were changing Middle-Eastern culture -- 50 years ago. They were westernizing rapidly. It was only when we became heavy handed and began bullying that they were motivated to turn back the clock to the 1400s.

Women in Afghanistan were not always under house arrest and forbidden by law to leave their ...pinterest.com
465 × 508

We had a wolf by the ears; damned if we stayed and damned if we left.

Well, in the case of Afghanistan, it was mostly the Soviet Union and its influence on the secular Afghan governments who did the changing, but I do grant your greater point.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I just came back from holidays and one of the first news I saw was the taking over of Afghanistan by the Taliban. I'm shocked.
So, 20 years of war, a couple of trillion dollars and thousands of lives later, this is it?
I wonder what the families and friends of the soldiers who died in that war must be feeling. Their loved ones went there believing they were going to fight for freedom. In the end, what did they die for?

The only thing I can say is for each other. Brothers in arms.

The country. No.

For themselves? Hell yea.

 

[Valjean]

We might have handled the 2001 WTC bombing more like we did the '93 bombing, but the US already had plans for both the Afghan and Iraqi wars. The 9/11 attack simply provided a convenient excuse -- Google.

 

[Kooky]

We want freedom and equality now. They are looking for benefits in the afterlife.

After all, what could be closer to freedom and equality, than a foreign military occupation that caused massive civilian death tolls, combined with the brutal rule of corrupt military warlords?

The US military has never brought anybody freedom and equality who wanted it, except perhaps rarely by sheer accident.

 

[Wandering Monk]

After all, what could be closer to freedom and equality, than a foreign military occupation that caused massive civilian death tolls, combined with the brutal rule of corrupt military warlords?

The US military has never brought anybody freedom and equality who wanted it, except perhaps rarely by sheer accident.

I think the Dutch would disagree with you.