What do Atheists Want?

[Clara Tea]

I guess that in a way that is exactly what it is...I mean lets face it, can i legimately win the lotto without buying a ticket?

We havea binary choice...I think that is universally accepted as being obvious...

God does tell us in Revelation 3

14To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Originatore of God’s creation.
15I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other!
16So because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to vomit you out of My mouth!
17You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked....
20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me.
21To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

I attended a funderal a few years ago for a cousin of mine who passed away in a car accident. She was a young person full of life in her late teens and one of two who passed away in the accident. The funeral service was attended by a large number of her fellow school students. Almost none of the group were Christian...the sense of loss, utter dispair, and complete hopelessness in that they would never see either of these two young ladies again was, i think one of the saddest moments in my life. I longed for these people to believe in God so that if nothing else, they could at least have dreams beyond their dispair!

I know this is a silly thing to say, however, i would rather believe in a fairytale that might actually be true having a lot of evidence in support of its authenticity, then believe in nothing and travel the journey of life looking forward an alternative that is..."kaput"!​

I like fantasy, too, when fillling out IRS forms. Yet, the IRS still wants to get paid.

I think that atheists would be annoyed, particularly during a wake, if prostelytized.

 

[Clara Tea]

Insults to intelligence are your topic?

Claiming the flood is an actual historic
event disqualifies any further comments.

Scientists have just identified Jericho, and found that an icy asteroid knocked down it's walls. There is 5 feet of ash from the impact (14 miles away), and in the ash is microscopic diamonds, which only form under extreme pressure and heat....not enough of either in a forest fire.

They also speculate that the same event might have destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Yet, Sodoom and Gomorrah are at the top of the Dead Sea, and so close to Jerusalem that you'd think that Jerusalem would have also been leveled, and I have not heard of that ash layer near Sodom and Gomorrah.

If some parts of the bible are historically accurate (or can be determined by archaeology), then perhaps the flood has some merit?

 

[Clara Tea]

Well said and spot on. FWIW, your comment about the rise of atheism reminded me of these quotes, particularly the second one.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi

"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.” - Brennan Manning

I agree. Christians don't follow Christ. Jesus would be banned in forums for being antiChristian.

 

[Audie]

Scientists have just identified Jericho, and found that an icy asteroid knocked down it's walls. There is 5 feet of ash from the impact (14 miles away), and in the ash is microscopic diamonds, which only form under extreme pressure and heat....not enough of either in a forest fire.

They also speculate that the same event might have destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Yet, Sodoom and Gomorrah are at the top of the Dead Sea, and so close to Jerusalem that you'd think that Jerusalem would have also been leveled, and I have not heard of that ash layer near Sodom and Gomorrah.

If some parts of the bible are historically accurate (or can be determined by archaeology), then perhaps the flood has some merit?

The stuff about icy asteroid sounds garbled. Citation?

Theres no non biblical reference to sodom and gomoorah even existing, is there?

As for flood / merit?
Of course it rains, sometimes floods.

If you seek more merit than that, its gonna
involve a trip to lala land.

 

[Subduction Zone]

because a "flying spaghetti monster" is an insult to my intelligence!

It also ignores the overwhelming historical evidence that supports the Bible narrative. It is ridiculous to say that Christians need to provide the burden of proof...we already do that. Atheists ignore it because they simply do not wish to face the balance beam and be found way too light on their end of it.

For example, one of the most common arguments i hear atheists use against christianity is the morality argument. It is also the argument they themselves cannot answer. If we cannot blame a supernatural figure for all the evil in this world, then clearly, atheists can only blame mankind for evil!

So, why is mankind so evil according to atheism? At least Christians have a decent answer with a historical theme...Satan, the fall of man, the plan of redemption, and the future restoration of this sinful planet and its inhabitants back to the original perfection that Lucifer corrupted!

How can the Christian God not be an insult to your intelligence? You can't be serious if you have ever read Genesis.

By the way, atheists have no problem at all with the morality question. Secular morality is far superior to that of religions. Why on Earth would you make that rather ignorant and insulting claim?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Christianity is basically a religion of fearmongering: fearing the Christian god, fear of going to hell for "sinning" against this god and not asking this god for his forgiveness for disobeying him, and shame and guilt for "sinning" against this god. It was a relief to me when I finally broke free from Christianity. I no longer allow myself to be ensnared by the fearmongering tactics of this religion.

That’s your experience of Christianity, perhaps. It certainly isn’t mine.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

How can the Christian God not be an insult to your intelligence? You can't be serious if you have ever read Genesis.

Admittedly, I ignored a lot of horrific things written in the Bible after I had read it from cover to cover when I was still a Christian. My learned belief in a loving, merciful God (and a heavenly father) brazenly contradicted what I read in the Bible about him and what I experienced in my own life while growing up. I desperately held on to my belief in God for many years, and it took me several years to free myself from it. I think of myself as a prime example of how easily a person can be brainwashed and ensnared by Christianity or another cult-like religion. It was very difficult to free myself from Christianity, but now that I'm free, I never want to go back to it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Admittedly, I ignored a lot of horrific things written in the Bible after I had read it from cover to cover when I was still a Christian. My learned belief in a loving, merciful God (and a heavenly father) brazenly contradicted what I read in the Bible about him and what I experienced in my own life while growing up. I desperately held on to my belief in God for many years, and it took me several years to finally free myself from it. To be honest, I think of myself as a prime example of how easily a person can be ensnared and brainwashed by Christianity or some other cult-like religion.

When one grows up with the stories one becomes immune to the absolute insanity and self contradictions. So when they see something silly that they are not familiar with they call it an "Insult to their intelligence without going back to check what they believe.

 

[RestlessSoul]

How can the Christian God not be an insult to your intelligence? You can't be serious if you have ever read Genesis.

By the way, atheists have no problem at all with the morality question. Secular morality is far superior to that of religions. Why on Earth would you make that rather ignorant and insulting claim?

You appear to have missed the point about the Problem of Evil. The question put to believers is, if God is good, how do you account for all the evil in the world? Different theologies offer a variety of answers to this vexed question. It’s arguable that none are completely satisfying, but that’s beside the point; the question can be asked of anybody, and if the atheist asks it of the believer, then he really ought to have considered for himself how to answer it.

So, if you don’t believe in God, how do you account for evil? Or do you think no answer is required of you? How would that be commensurate with the claim you have just made about the superiority of secular morality?

If you consider Genesis an insult to your intelligence btw, I’d have to point out that interpreting the story literally looks like a wilfully dumb thing to do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You appear to have missed the point about the Problem of Evil. The question put to believers is, if God is good, how do you account for all the evil in the world? Different theologies offer a variety of answers to this vexed question. It’s arguable that none are completely satisfying, but that’s beside the point; the question can be asked of anybody, and if the atheist asks it of the believer, then he really ought to have considered for himself how to answer it.

So, if you don’t believe in God, how do you account for evil? Or do you think no answer is required of you? How would that be commensurate with the claim you have just made about the superiority of secular morality?

If you consider Genesis an insult to your intelligence btw, I’d have to point out that interpreting the story literally looks like a wilfully dumb thing to do.

I don't think he was referring to that problem necessarily since he said:

"It is also the argument they themselves cannot answer. "

Atheists have a very easy answer to the "problem of evil". We don't posit some sort of all benevolent deity so that evil exists in an imperfect world, and there is no reason to expect the world to be perfect either, only makes sense from an atheistic viewpoint. What most atheists do then is to try to minimize that evil. Why would that ever be a problem for atheists? To me it seemed like he was going to go on about a source of morality.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So why mention 'gods' in your post?

Because gods are a part of some religions. Philosophical physicalism is a part of other religions. And there are even other religions.

 

[Altfish]

Because gods are a part of some religions. Philosophical physicalism is a part of other religions. And there are even other religions.

Atheism is not a religion

 

[RestlessSoul]

Atheism is not a religion

A vocal few of it's adherents however, exhibit a Messianic zeal and a fundamentalist's intolerance towards all other positions.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Atheism is not a religion

No, but e.g. philosophical naturalism/materialism/physicalism is. You are more that just an atheist. You have an overall worldview like the rest of us. You are not just a negative as I don't believe in gods. You are a positive as you have positive beliefs/claims like all other humans with a sufficient cognition.

 

[Audie]

A vocal few of it's adherents however, exhibit a Messianic zeal and a fundamentalist's intolerance towards all other positions.

Thats a serious matter. Possubly its a disproportionate reaction to the centuries of millions of religionists' persecution.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Thats a serious matter. Possubly its a disproportionate reaction to the centuries of millions of religionists' persecution.

It has nothing to do with atheism as such nor religion as such.

 

[Altfish]

A vocal few of it's adherents however, exhibit a Messianic zeal and a fundamentalist's intolerance towards all other positions.

What ... they fly planes into buildings ... or protest violently outside women's health clinics ... or what is it they do?
I hope it is not using words and reason, that's despicable.

 

[Altfish]

No, but e.g. philosophical naturalism/materialism/physicalism is. You are more that just an atheist. You have an overall worldview like the rest of us. You are not just a negative as I don't believe in gods. You are a positive as you have positive beliefs/claims like all other humans with a sufficient cognition.

Yes, I am a Humanist or try to be. BUT that does not equate to a religion. I do not believe in or worship a higher power, I follow my own creeds and make my own morals; I don't waste one day a week talking to a 'higher power'

 

[Kfox]

As a non believer, why does it matter if they exist or not. If you don't believe either way?

If your willing to look at or hear evidence, you're agnostic.

Agnostic has nothing to do with your willingness to look at evidence, Agnostic have made up their minds that nobody know; it is the atheist who usually says; show me evidence and I'll change my mind.

 

[Kfox]

Which is precisely why I have a hard time believing you can be atheist and still a participant in this forum. There has to be a reason you are answering my question if you are atheist. What is it?

They want to see your evidence.