What do Jews find strange about Christianity and why.

[Harel13]

, but it is noteworthy that they never challenged these genealogies.

They probably figured: nothing to challenge when this guy is only the adopted son of a descendant of David, and isn't a descendant himself.

 

[Harel13]

I find it strange that many Christians do not agree to disagree with Jews about whether or not Jesus is the Messiah.

Why can't we agree to disagree?

I'm with you. The constant preaching and the I'm-holier-than-thou and you're all a bunch of idiots is tiring.

 

[wizanda]

The constant preaching and the I'm-holier-than-thou and you're all a bunch of idiots is tiring.

Deuteronomy 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not Source. They have provoked me to anger with their vanities. I will move them to jealousy with those who are not a people. I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

It is meant to be this way as prophecy related, the problem is instead of questioning that it could be that Rabbinic Judaism is missing the plot; they assume the Christians are stupid, therefore the texts must be wrong, which is dumb on their part (Zechariah 12:4, Deuteronomy 28:28-29).

We can show where the Bible is too complex, and the foolish are generally the ones who go around calling other's idiots.

They probably figured: nothing to challenge when this guy is only the adopted son of a descendant of David, and isn't a descendant himself.

Yeshua/Yehoshua was a prophesied reincarnation of King David (Psalms 89:19-21 = Isaiah 52:13-14 - Marred = Anointed); therefore genealogy isn't a requirement.

In my opinion.

 

[Harel13]

therefore genealogy isn't a requirement.

Tell that to @Deeje who brought up the genealogy factor.

 

[wizanda]

Tell that to @Deeje who brought up the genealogy factor.

Proverbs 9:8-10 Don’t reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you. Reprove a wise person, and he will love you. (9) Instruct a wise person, and he will be still wiser. Teach a righteous person, and he will increase in learning. (10) The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

In our opinion.

 

[Spartan]

Because you're eating god. Even symbolically, you're eating god. You chew his flesh, you drink his blood.
And I smile with pride that my ancestors so corrupted and twisted your religion by adding Pagan elements to it. Christianity was something else until the Celts and the Danes touched it.

Yada yada yada...

How do you labor for the food that endures to eternal life? Believe in me! (John 6:27, 29) “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me [in faith] shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.” (John 6:35) “For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:40) “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.” (John 6:47)

 

[Spartan]

It is proper form that you attempt to answer the question I asked. Citing sources is to back you claims up, not throw them out first and solely and expect someone to read all that when you could summarize in a paragraph or two the definition that was requested.

You just kick everything to the curb. It's pretty much a waste of time with you.

 

[dybmh]

Can you provide me any real evidence that God intended his laws to be taken to such a degree without him ever directly telling the Jewish leadership to do any of it. These are the commands of men dressed up as the word of God.....how are they not?

I'll see what I can find. My first stop will be looking at Hiddur... if it has a source in Torah ( If i had to guess it would be in Psalms ) , then that seems to me to be the shortest path to get to a possible answer. Not **the** answer, but a possible answer.

@Deeje, you asked for "any" real evidence that God intended for his laws to be taken to such a degree?

There are 2 scriptural sources for this that I found. However, there are a bit obscure.

In the Exodus story, the Nation sings a song at the sea. In it, ( verse 15:2 ) the nation makes a commitment to exalt God. This verse can be applied towards Beautifying the Mitzvah, making it detailed and ornate. The verse says "I will [ future tense ] exalt/lift up God." One way to do this, here in the material world, is to make each Mitzvah beautiful with many details and dimensions. Like a diamond or a gem which has been cut to sparkle.

In Leviticus, during the laws of the temple sacrifices, the offering is described and the fat and the other choice tidbits are left for God. ( verse 3:16 ). This can also be seen as a directive to always strive to offer God the best in all the actions that are devoted to Him.

Does that help?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You just kick everything to the curb. It's pretty much a waste of time with you.

I asked you a simple questing and you didn't answer it. And how nice that you, a Christian who is instructed to not judge, is so judgmental.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yada yada yada...

How do you labor for the food that endures to eternal life? Believe in me! (John 6:27, 29) “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me [in faith] shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.” (John 6:35) “For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:40) “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.” (John 6:47)

Believing doesn't make it real. I would assume most adults know that due to things like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

 

[dybmh]

I'm with you. The constant preaching and the I'm-holier-than-thou and you're all a bunch of idiots is tiring.

At times. Though depending on the person, I think it's cute. What get's me are Rabbis who argue and advocate that the Torah is fiction. ( it's somewhat common here in the US )

 

[1213]

No, because David wrote this Psalms for other people to sing. First the Temple priests and by extension Temple worshipers. So, yes, this Psalm is about its singers proclaiming that David is our master and sits at the right hand of HaShem.

Sorry, I understand it differently. However, I think it is not a problem, if we both agree that there is only one true God that is greater than David or Jesus.

 

[1213]

Here is a link to it in English
Tehillim - Psalms - Chapter 110

Thank you. Interesting, but I don’t think it really helps in this.

 

[Deeje]

@Deeje, you asked for "any" real evidence that God intended for his laws to be taken to such a degree?

There are 2 scriptural sources for this that I found. However, there are a bit obscure.

Thank you for your efforts, I appreciate it.

In the Exodus story, the Nation sings a song at the sea. In it, ( verse 15:2 ) the nation makes a commitment to exalt God. This verse can be applied towards Beautifying the Mitzvah, making it detailed and ornate. The verse says "I will [ future tense ] exalt/lift up God." One way to do this, here in the material world, is to make each Mitzvah beautiful with many details and dimensions. Like a diamond or a gem which has been cut to sparkle.

Yes, and I agree whole-heartedly...every command of God has a purpose and if God commanded it, it must be perfect.....but why the need to enhance something that is already perfect? For some reason this brings to mind humans who are already physically good looking but want to make themselves better looking, so they consult a plastic surgeon and he makes enhancements to 'improve' the looks of this already beautiful person....sometimes they don't know when to stop, and they end up becoming hideous. This is how I see the Jewish approach to God's commands.....they go to ridiculous extremes when God never intended that they should have to do so. You can become so obsessed with how something "looks" and want to make it better, but end up making it just the opposite...if you catch my drift.

As I said, God never asked Israel to do anything ridiculous. I know that to Jews, their practices do not seem to be ridiculous, but to those on the outside, (not indoctrinated in those practices from birth,) we just shake our heads and wonder what happened to common sense? God reads hearts, not just minds....blindly obeying additions to his original commands comes from an indoctrinated mind.....obeying God from the heart will serve God better, don't you think? He sees us wanting to observe his commands willingly because we love him, not fearfully because we might transgress a 'gnat' but end up 'gulping down a camel'.

In Leviticus, during the laws of the temple sacrifices, the offering is described and the fat and the other choice tidbits are left for God. ( verse 3:16 ). This can also be seen as a directive to always strive to offer God the best in all the actions that are devoted to Him.

Giving God our best was always a matter of the heart....selfishness is ingrained in fallen humanity, so when Israel fell to offering God sick and lame animals, he was rightly incensed. (Malachi 1:6-9) But when God requests our best he is testing our heart. We know when we give him less than our best....so how far does God want us to go? How far is too far.....how much is not enough? God is all about balance....not too much, not too little, as he demonstrated with the manna. (Exodus 16:16-18) God gave us intelligence to figure things out for ourselves....when he commanded the Israelites to do something, he intended them to do exactly what he had commanded...no more, no less.

Does that help?

I guess it always helps to understand Jewish thinking.....this is rather new to me because I have no Jewish people where I live, so speaking with Jews here is always an education to me. I really want to understand how they arrive at their definitions of things. More so, it is about "who" they rely on for their definitions.....seeing as how Jews do not seem to have a set of beliefs (like the 10 Commandments written on stone) can you just choose which Rabbi's definition suits what you want to believe? I find that very odd when they are so pedantic about do many minor things...

 

[dybmh]

Thank you for your efforts, I appreciate it.

You're always welcome.

Yes, and I agree whole-heartedly...every command of God has a purpose and if God commanded it, it must be perfect.....but why the need to enhance something that is already perfect? For some reason this brings to mind humans who are already physically good looking but want to make themselves better looking, so they consult a plastic surgeon and he makes enhancements to 'improve' the looks of this already beautiful person....sometimes they don't know when to stop, and they end up becoming hideous. This is how I see the Jewish approach to God's commands.....they go to ridiculous extremes when God never intended that they should have to do so. You can become so obsessed with how something "looks" and want to make it better, but end up making it just the opposite...if you catch my drift.

I do catch your drift. Completely. I think there's a lot of merit to living simply, and simply following the commandments. But I also recognize the merit of having the law as it has been derived by Rabbis and Scholars in the Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox communities.

Giving God our best was always a matter of the heart....selfishness is ingrained in fallen humanity, so when Israel fell to offering God sick and lame animals, he was rightly incensed. (Malachi 1:6-9) But when God requests our best he is testing our heart. We know when we give him less than our best....so how far does God want us to go? How far is too far.....how much is not enough? God is all about balance....not too much, not too little, as he demonstrated with the manna. (Exodus 16:16-18) God gave us intelligence to figure things out for ourselves....when he commanded the Israelites to do something, he intended them to do exactly what he had commanded...no more, no less.

The Mannah, It's a really good point. You asked a good question too... "How far is too far?" I should be able to find something that answers that question. Again, I should be able to find a possible answer, not **the** answer.

However, ahem, if you don't mind, { he say's straightening his imaginary tie }, May I respectfully request scripture ( preferably something from the Tanach ) that supports: "when God requests our best he is testing our heart."

I guess it always helps to understand Jewish thinking.....this is rather new to me because I have no Jewish people where I live, so speaking with Jews here is always an education to me. I really want to understand how they arrive at their definitions of things. More so, it is about "who" they rely on for their definitions.....seeing as how Jews do not seem to have a set of beliefs (like the 10 Commandments written on stone) can you just choose which Rabbi's definition suits what you want to believe? I find that very odd when they are so pedantic about do many minor things...

Well... I think it makes sense for you and others to question and criticize the Rabbi's who deem Jesus not to be the Messiah. But when it comes to dietary laws, observance of Shabbos, and other non-Messianic issues ( for lack of better term ); what is the harm? Put more clearly:

Is there any scriptural evidence that supports not observing Shabbos in the manner that resonates with Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox communities? How do you know that God is not overjoyed by this?

 

[Maximus]

Since the ancient Jews had no belief in an afterlife, how is David sitting at the right hand of God? How is he to "rule" if David is dead and has been for centuries?
His son Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 says....

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for their remembrance is forgotten. הכִּ֧י הַֽחַיִּ֛ים יֽוֹדְעִ֖ים שֶׁיָּמֻ֑תוּ וְהַמֵּתִ֞ים אֵינָ֧ם יֽוֹדְעִ֣ים מְא֗וּמָה וְאֵֽין־ע֤וֹד לָהֶם֙ שָׂכָ֔ר כִּ֥י נִשְׁכַּ֖ח זִכְרָֽם:

Whatever your hand attains to do [as long as you are] with your strength, do; for there is neither deed nor reckoning, neither knowledge nor wisdom in the grave, where you are going. יכֹּ֠ל אֲשֶׁ֨ר תִּמְצָ֧א יָֽדְךָ֛ לַֽעֲשׂ֥וֹת בְּכֹֽחֲךָ֖ עֲשֵׂ֑ה כִּי֩ אֵ֨ין מַֽעֲשֶׂ֤ה וְחֶשְׁבּוֹן֙ וְדַ֣עַת וְחָכְמָ֔ה בִּשְׁא֕וֹל אֲשֶׁ֥ר אַתָּ֖ה הֹלֵ֥ךְ שָֽׁמָּה:"

This Psalm is a Messianic prophesy.



Jesus was not 'something more than a man'. He was 100% human. And he had to die as a human. He wasn't God because mere humans cannot kill an immortal God. If Jesus didn't die, then the ransom is not paid and we are still condemned in our sins.

Jesus is called God's "servant" in our scripture.
Acts 3:13-15...the apostle Peter said....
"13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him. 14 Yes, you disowned that holy and righteous one, and you asked for a man who was a murderer to be given to you, 15 whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses."

Jesus was sent by God to offer himself on behalf of Adam's children...."a life for a life" as it was demanded in God's law. One precious perfect life atoned for the sins of many. He was sentenced to death for the sake of Adam's children.....to die instead of them. Genesis 3:15 says that God's adversary was to deal him a "heel" wound.....from which he recovered when God resurrected him.
Jesus was not a human sacrifice.....but he was put to death as an innocent man at the behest of the Jewish leaders of the day, as Peter said. He was not guilty of the charge brought against him.

A 'Master' is usually one who has authority over others, so what is the big deal about the capital letter?

Psalm 110:1-2...
"The word of the Lord to my master; "Wait for My right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool at your feet." אלְדָוִ֗ד מִ֫זְמ֥וֹר נְאֻ֚ם יְהֹוָ֨ה | לַֽאדֹנִ֗י שֵׁ֥ב לִֽימִינִ֑י עַד־אָשִׁ֥ית אֹֽ֜יְבֶ֗יךָ הֲדֹ֣ם לְרַגְלֶֽיךָ:

2The staff of your might the Lord will send from Zion; rule in the midst of your enemies. במַטֵּ֚ה עֻזְּךָ֗ יִשְׁלַ֣ח יְ֖הֹוָה מִצִיּ֑וֹן רְ֜דֵ֗ה בְּקֶ֣רֶב אֹֽיְבֶֽיךָ:"

God is talking to David's "master". How can these words be directed to David, by David? Nothing fits. His kingship was not future....how was God to "make his enemies a footstool for his feet"? And how was he to "rule in the midst of his enemies"?

@Spartan has raised some very valid points and your demeanor is demonstrating that you have no real responses to them.



We read it as it fits....Jesus was a son of David.....of the tribe of Judah.

The genealogical lists made by both Matthew and Luke were comprised of names publicly recognized by the Jews of that time as authentic. The scribes and Pharisees as well as the Sadducees were bitter enemies of Christianity, and they would have used any possible argument to discredit Jesus, but it is noteworthy that they never challenged these genealogies. If either Matthew’s or Luke’s genealogy of Jesus had been in error, what an opportunity it would have been for these opponents to prove it then and there! Until 70 C.E. they evidently had ready access to the public genealogical registers and the Scriptures.

Our scripture points out that Jesus was actually the Son of God and the natural heir to the Kingdom by miraculous birth through his mother, Mary, of David’s line, and that Jesus was also the legal heir in the male line of descent from David and Solomon through his adoptive father Joseph. If there was any accusation made by hostile Jews that Jesus’ birth was illegitimate, the fact that Joseph, aware of the circumstances, married Mary and gave her the protection of his good name and royal lineage refutes any such slander.

@Deeje "Since the ancient Jews had no belief in an afterlife"

I think that was true of some Jews (e.g., Sadducees) but not others (Pharisees). There were many different sects.

 

[Deeje]

@Deeje "Since the ancient Jews had no belief in an afterlife"

I think that was true of some Jews (e.g., Sadducees) but not others (Pharisees). There were many different sects.

I am speaking about the ancients, not the ones who were clearly off the rails in Jesus’ day. He had nothing good to say about them.
The Jews adopted some of the strong Greek influence, (especially Plato in his belief about the immortality of the soul...something not taught in Hebrew Scripture.

 

[dybmh]

I am speaking about the ancients, not the ones who were clearly off the rails in Jesus’ day. He had nothing good to say about them.
The Jews adopted some of the strong Greek influence, (especially Plato in his belief about the immortality of the soul...something not taught in Hebrew Scripture.

Enoch? Elijah? no immortal soul?

 

[Deeje]

You're always welcome.

Thank you, it’s always a pleasure to talk with you.

I do catch your drift. Completely. I think there's a lot of merit to living simply, and simply following the commandments. But I also recognize the merit of having the law as it has been derived by Rabbis and Scholars in the Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox communities.

I understand...we all have choices to make for our own reasons.

The Mannah, It's a really good point. You asked a good question too... "How far is too far?" I should be able to find something that answers that question. Again, I should be able to find a possible answer, not **the** answer.

LOL how very Jewish of you...

However, ahem, if you don't mind, { he say's straightening his imaginary tie }, May I respectfully request scripture ( preferably something from the Tanach ) that supports: "when God requests our best he is testing our heart."

It’s the reason for requesting our best.....he can see what our best is and whether or not we are giving it. I didn’t think that needed explaining. When the lame and sick animals were offered, what did that tell God about those presenting them? They were making their sacrifices according to the Law, but God knew as well as they did that their sacrifices were based on selfishness....they kept the best for themselves. Wholehearted devotion to God doesn’t need a law....it comes from knowing him and loving him. It’s not about performance for the sake of it....it’s about a desire to please God in ways that count. (the camels)

Well... I think it makes sense for you and others to question and criticize the Rabbi's who deem Jesus not to be the Messiah. But when it comes to dietary laws, observance of Shabbos, and other non-Messianic issues ( for lack of better term ); what is the harm? Put more clearly:

Is there any scriptural evidence that supports not observing Shabbos in the manner that resonates with Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox communities? How do you know that God is not overjoyed by this?

It’s not about whether the laws were harmful or not, but whether this adherence to strict rituals, not included in the law itself, but by the Rabbis who interpreted them, to be a complete waste of time and energy, better spent in common sense practice from the heart rather than nit picking the law and losing the spirit to of it, which is what Jesus pointed out. And finding ways to circumvent the nit picking.....like elevators where you do not need to push the button....or automatic lighting so you don’t need to flick a switch....you can’t move something with your hand but you can nudge it with you elbow or use your teeth.....that kind of thing. You really think that Gd is that pedantic? That is not the God Jesus showed us.

 

[Spartan]

I asked you a simple questing and you didn't answer it. And how nice that you, a Christian who is instructed to not judge, is so judgmental.

Look who's judging - you.

Like I told you before, you kick all evidences about Jesus and the NT to the curb. That's what you do and are.