What Do Palestinians Want?

[Shusha]

This is an accurate listing of persistent Palestinian beliefs. The discussion on this thread should be about these.

The conclusion that I get is that what the Palestinians want is to murder every Jew in Israel. Is that not blood-thirsty?

I don't come to that conclusion. Rather, I would say that Palestinians want political and religious control over the entire territory. They most certainly want some measure of ethnic cleansing. They are willing to use violence to achieve that goal because they believe they are morally correct to do so and that violence is an effective means of achieving that goal. That doesn't make them blood-thirsty so much as it makes them feel justified in committing heinous acts.

 

[dust1n]

The article

What Do Palestinians Want?​

is long, interesting, and disturbing. But, sadly, its observations are not surprising.

Great article.

What I found interesting was all of those people who apparently responded to these surveys negatively, as in, were giving generally non-violence as answers. So, I started reading about and came across this and thought you might enjoy an even broader glimpse, though I'm sure it's nothing you aren't familiar with.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/05/18/palestines-hidden-history-of-nonviolence-2/

 

[Debater Slayer]

I'm not sure I can disagree with the statement that Israel doesn't want a two-state solution. At least I don't. But on the other hand, if the other theoretical state's attainment of open borders would increase my risk of death (as the linked article suggests it would), would I be wise to want them to gain control over their borders?

Good question. I don't think opening the borders before reaching an agreement would be a good idea. The powers that be don't want to reach an agreement, though, and civilians and innocent people are paying the price.

 

[Shusha]

The powers that be don't want to reach an agreement, though, and civilians and innocent people are paying the price.

Isn't the OP saying rather the opposite? The Palestinian people don't want an agreement, and the powers that be are forced to bow to that.

 

[FearGod]

The real solution is easy than just writing essays and making a propaganda,
a 2 states and an international observers at the borders, Palestinians should
be free in their own lands the same for the Israelis, then peace will come
which Israel don't want, i don't mean by saying "Israel" the people of Israel
but the leaders, i don't know exactly what's their purpose but i can see that
they're playing with the Jewish people themselves and their people believe and trust
them, one example when Netanyahu said to the Jews that the Palestinian Mufti asked
Hitler to burn you "the Jews", and then the Jews in the next day will fetch for some Palestinians
to revenge, the same thing with the Palestinians, How to make the Palestinians
angry, let us let them to think that we(the Jews) want the holy mosque and they'll gone crazy,
few Jews all in a sudden went to the holy mosque and annoyed the Palestinians, the violence
started which is what the leaders planned for, i know no one will believe me but that what i can see.

 

[Tumah]

Good question. I don't think opening the borders before reaching an agreement would be a good idea. The powers that be don't want to reach an agreement, though, and civilians and innocent people are paying the price.

Are you convinced that with the Palestinian mindset as described in the link, Israel would be able to feel confident in any agreement reached with the Palestinians? Reading that article, would it be prudent to stake my life and the life of my wife and children on such an agreement? Could I trust the Palestinian president to ensure that his people would not illegally import weapons that would endanger my family?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Are you convinced that with the Palestinian mindset as described in the link, Israel would be able to feel confident in any agreement reached with the Palestinians? Reading that article, would it be prudent to stake my life and the life of my wife and children on such an agreement? Could I trust the Palestinian president to ensure that his people would not illegally import weapons that would endanger my family?

I honestly don't know. I believe that stopping the occupation and illegal settlement could go a long way toward improving the public image of Israel in Palestine, but that doesn't mean I'm certain Palestinians would take kindly to a two-state solution.

 

[Tumah]

I honestly don't know. I believe that stopping the occupation and illegal settlement could go a long way toward improving the public image of Israel in Palestine, but that doesn't mean I'm certain Palestinians would take kindly to a two-state solution.

So assuming this alleged occupation and illegal settling stopped, you think that the Palestinians, who believe that [secular] Israel is getting ready to destroy al Aqsa and replace it with a [religious] synagogue, will have an improved image of Israel?

 

[Debater Slayer]

So assuming this alleged occupation and illegal settling stopped, you think that the Palestinians, who believe that [secular] Israel is getting ready to destroy al Aqsa and replace it with a [religious] synagogue, will have an improved image of Israel?

I don't know about Palestinians as a whole, but I think it could improve the image of Israel at least for some Palestinians. Actions speak louder than words, so stopping illegal settlements would probably go further toward giving a better image of Israel than an agreement on paper.

 

[Tumah]

I don't know about Palestinians as a whole, but I think it could improve the image of Israel at least for some Palestinians. Actions speak louder than words, so stopping illegal settlements would probably go further toward giving a better image of Israel than an agreement on paper.

I understand what you are saying. I am saying that considering Palestinians already strongly believe something that is clearly baseless, it is unclear to me that reality affects their image of Israel.

 

[Shusha]

I don't know about Palestinians as a whole, but I think it could improve the image of Israel at least for some Palestinians. Actions speak louder than words, so stopping illegal settlements would probably go further toward giving a better image of Israel than an agreement on paper.

What do you mean by "stopping illegal settlements"? No more new settlements? No more new housing units in existing settlements? Emptying the settlements of Jews and cleansing them all back to Israel? What areas do you refer to when you speak of settlements? All of Area C? Just some parts of Area C?

Withdrawal didn't create peace with Gaza, what makes you think it will create peace with the West Bank? In fact, according to the OP essay it created an attitude in the Palestinians that violence works to gain territory. What makes you think that a withdrawal will lead to the end of the conflict?

 

[FearGod]

I understand what you are saying. I am saying that considering Palestinians already strongly believe something that is clearly baseless, it is unclear to me that reality affects their image of Israel.

Foreign Observers at the borders will solve the problem of insecurity.

 

[Tumah]

Foreign Observers at the borders will solve the problem of insecurity.

You mean, like its been working until now...

 

[RocketJSquirell]

Foreign Observers at the borders will solve the problem of insecurity.

I suppose you mean the same way that the "foreign observers" solved the problem of insecurity on the border with Lebanon. Where they fled when Hezbollah moved in and started shelling Israel Or perhaps you mean the "foreign observers" who did such a good job preventing Egypt from attempting to invade Israel in 1967? Foreign observers, foreign soldiers, UN forces, etc.... have all shown that they are all too willing to allow Israel to be attacked. In fact, the UN has shown that it will willingly join in the attacks (remember UNWRA - the organization who allowed its schools to be used a missile launching sites) Peace will come when the Arabs - all of the Arabs - recognize Israel as the Jewish state and stop trying to destroy it and stop their attacks againt Israel and its citizenry. I do not see that as happening any time soon. Since the one and only unifying theme of the Arab world is hatred for Israel.

DEBATER SLAYER
There are no illegal settlements. At least none constructed by Israel or any Israelis. Really you need to read the treaties and agreements. It would help if everyone became familiar with these documents and the history of the region.

 

[RocketJSquirell]

Something something idolizing Israel something something.

Do you have anything useful to add to the debate. You know, facts or anything like that?

 

[FearGod]

It seems that the leaders are debating here.

 

[Akivah]

The real solution is easy than just writing essays and making a propaganda,
a 2 states and an international observers at the borders, Palestinians should
be free in their own lands the same for the Israelis, then peace will come
which Israel don't want...

Why envision a way for violence to end and conclude by saying it won't work? How about
"Palestinians should be free in their own lands the same for the Israelis, then peace will come" PERIOD.

From the consistent polling of the Palestinians, we can see that they are the ones that refuse concede that the Israelis should have ANY land. I believe once they accept the notion of being neighbors with Israel, then peace might be achieved.

 

[FearGod]

Why envision a way for violence to end and conclude by saying it won't work? How about
"Palestinians should be free in their own lands the same for the Israelis, then peace will come" PERIOD.

From the consistent polling of the Palestinians, we can see that they are the ones that refuse concede that the Israelis should have ANY land. I believe once they accept the notion of being neighbors with Israel, then peace might be achieved.

If the Palestinians will have freedom in their lands and high quality of life then the conflict will end forever.

 

[Tumah]

If the Palestinians will have freedom in their lands and high quality of life then the conflict will end forever.

Judging by the article quoted in the OP, I believe that that is as fanciful as claiming that Israel is trying to build a synagogue where al Aqsa mosque is.
For one thing, according to the article, "their land" in Palestinian eyes, equals everything from the Mediterranean sea to Jordan and everything in between.
For another, I don't see how Palestinian quality of life became an Israeli concern. What if Palestinians have their "freedom" but (as in many Arab lands) their quality of life remains the same?
For another, what if after having gained their "freedom", the Palestinians think "hey! Terrorism works! Look what we got! Let's go get some more!" I know that that line of thought might seem preposterous and yet...

 

[Shusha]

If the Palestinians will have freedom in their lands and high quality of life then the conflict will end forever.

If that was what the Palestinians wanted the Oslo Accords and the Gaza withdrawal would have solved the conflict. It didn't. Why?