What do people think "atheist" means?

[Bunyip]

Not sure if someone has explained this, but it's actually a - theos - ism. But we don't determine a word's definition by its etymological roots. A word can mean anything.

Oh thank God! Finally LOL.

 

[ArtieE]

Why keep trying to come up with all the different labels, and not just ask whoever you are talking to what they mean?

Because of course if you can use one word instead of possibly many sentences and convey the same meaning it simplifies communication. Isn't that obvious?

 

[Norrin-6-]

Theism, weak atheism and strong atheism are just points on a line. Think of it as a pendulum where straight down is weak atheism and some force has to influence the pendulum to move it towards either theism or strong atheism.

This is post-hoc. Dawkins didn't use the term weak/negative atheism. In fact, Dawkins avoids this terminology.

 

[Bunyip]

Because of course if you can use one word instead of possibly many sentences and convey the same meaning it simplifies communication. Isn't that obvious?

Obvious? Yes. Enforcible? Sadly no. People use words and dictionaries struggle to keep up.

 

[ArtieE]

Not sure if someone has explained this, but it's actually a - theos - ism. But we don't determine a word's definition by its etymological roots. A word can mean anything.

If so so what? Still means not, without god(s) and not belief that god(s) don't exist.

 

[Bunyip]

If so so what? Still means not, without god(s) and not belief that god(s) don't exist.

Which Gods?

 

[Bunyip]

If so so what? Still means not, without god(s) and not belief that god(s) don't exist.

And what do you mean by 'exists' exactly?

 

[ArtieE]

Which Gods?

All gods of course.

 

[Norrin-6-]

Because of course if you can use one word instead of possibly many sentences and convey the same meaning it simplifies communication. Isn't that obvious?

It would be nice, but unfortunately we have people trying desperately to claim the word as their own. The word atheist, in philosophy, is almost universally (and I hope someone corrects me on that if I'm wrong) defined as a person who believes there's no god.

 

[ArtieE]

And what do you mean by 'exists' exactly?

Are real and not imaginary. Didn't you really know what exists mean? Shall I explain what real and imaginary means too?

 

[Sees]

Are real and not imaginary. Didn't you really know what exists mean? Shall I explain what real and imaginary means too?

Not having fun with the eternal RF dictionary game?!

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

When a person tells me that he or she is an atheist, I think that tells me that this person is not a theist

When a person tells you he or she is a Catholic, Conservative, Liberal, Anarchist, apolitical, agnostic, polytheist, amoral, etc., what do each of these tell you that person is not? Or is atheist the only term used completely and only by people who (for some ridiculous reason) wish to identify themselves ideologically, philosophically, epistemologically, and/or intellectually in terms of a singular definition that describes that which they aren't, rather than what they are or what they think or believe?

 

[Bunyip]

All gods of course.

Oh well, then there are no atheists.

 

[Bunyip]

When a person tells you he or she is a Catholic, Conservative, Liberal, Anarchist, apolitical, agnostic, polytheist, amoral, etc., what do each of these tell you that person is not? Or is atheist the only term used completely and only used by people who (for some ridiculous reason) wish to identify themselves ideologically, philosophically, epistemologically, and/or intellectually in terms of a singular definition that describes that which they aren't, rather than what they are or what they think or believe?

So true. Although I like most atheists only identify as such in the context of a discussion about Gods.

 

[ArtieE]

It would be nice, but unfortunately we have people trying desperately to claim the word as their own. The word atheist, in philosophy, is almost universally (and I hope someone corrects me on that if I'm wrong) defined as a person who believes there's no god.

And universally when people hear the word atheist they automatically know this person doesn't believe gods exist but unfortunately some people are trying to claim that in addition you would have to believe that gods don't exist to call yourself atheist which just complicates things.

 

[Norrin-6-]

And universally when people hear the word atheist they automatically know this person doesn't believe gods exist but unfortunately some people are trying to claim that in addition you would have to believe that gods don't exist to call yourself atheist which just complicates things.

Things are complicated no matter who you want to give blame to. There's no reason why people can't use the term to describe a person who lacks belief. And I get your reason for wanting clarity. It's never clear to me though.

 

[ArtieE]

When a person tells you he or she is a Catholic, Conservative, Liberal, Anarchist, apolitical, agnostic, polytheist, amoral, etc., what do each of these tell you that person is not? Or is atheist the only term used completely and only used by people who (for some ridiculous reason) wish to identify themselves ideologically, philosophically, epistemologically, and/or intellectually in terms of a singular definition that describes that which they aren't, rather than what they are or what they think or believe?

LOL. They aren't trying to identify themselves ideologically, philosophically, epistemologically, and/or intellectually they just want to identify themselves as not being theists. If they want to convey more than that there are plenty of other words.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

LOL. They aren't trying to identify themselves ideologically, philosophically, epistemologically, and/or intellectually they just want to identify themselves as not being theists.

How much time do you spent identifying yourself as not a florist, not a proponent of massive modularity, not a proponent of embodied cognition, not a proponent of the biomedical model of mental illness, not a proponent of the multiverse interpretation of quantum mechanics, not a conservative (but also not a proponent of any other political ideology), not a polytheist, not an agnostic, not a constructivist, etc.? Notice that in most cases I can't even give a word to describe the position one is "not a proponent of". That's because we don't bother to define terms to deal with the infinitely many alternatives to a given position. We use words that mean something. There's no point to atheist/atheism as simply "not theism", because we can simply say "not theism" or "not theist". And in every other case, that's what we do (and in this case, that's also what we do only in the past couple of decades some have denied this).

 

[Norrin-6-]

I don't get the attachment by people who are unwilling to say God does not exist.

 

[ArtieE]

How much time do you spent identifying yourself as not a florist, not a proponent of massive modularity, not a proponent of embodied cognition, not a proponent of the biomedical model of mental illness, not a proponent of the multiverse interpretation of quantum mechanics, not a conservative (but also not a proponent of any other political ideology), not a polytheist, not an agnostic, not a constructivist, etc.? Notice that in most cases I can't even give a word to describe the position one is "not a proponent of". That's because we don't both with the infinitely many alternatives to a given position. We use words that mean something. There's no point to atheist/atheism as simply "not theism", because we can simply say "not theism" or "not theist". And in every other case, that's what we do (and in this case, that's also what we do only in the past couple of decades some have denied this).

Here in Norway I never go around identifying myself as an atheist. It's a given. Just a little over 20% are self-identified theists. I haven't used the word in conversation outside forums for I don't know how long. It's not something we identify us as, we are just not theists. Most have no interest in God at all. They just can't be bothered to put any effort into taking any position. It's a non-issue.