What do people think "atheist" means?

[Windwalker]

Thus, the person mentioned could accurately be classified as a "weak atheist" ..... as they do not believe in the existence of God or gods.

It is this "they do not believe in the existence of God", that is what I am saying is an active belief. It is an postive affirmation of not believing in God. They would not self-identify as atheist if they had no opinion. They clearly have an opinion as you just stated, "They do not believe in the existence of God".

"Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty. Another way of defining belief is, it is a mental representation of an attitude positively orientated towards the likelihood of something being true.

[From Wiki].

To not believe something, is a belief. It is my belief that little green men don't exist. Do I know that absolutely, no. But saying "I don't believe they exist", and saying "I believe they don't exist" is saying the exact same thing.

 

[leibowde84]

It is this "they do not believe in the existence of God", that is what I am saying is an active belief. It is an postive affirmation of not believing in God. They would not self-identify as atheist if they had no opinion. They clearly have an opinion as you just stated, "They do not believe in the existence of God".

"Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty. Another way of defining belief is, it is a mental representation of an attitude positively orientated towards the likelihood of something being true.

[From Wiki].

To not believe something, is a belief. It is my belief that little green men don't exist. Do I know that absolutely, no. But saying "I don't believe they exist", and saying "I believe they don't exist" is saying the exact same thing.

This is a fallacy. Held erroneously by quite a few, but not true all the same. An atheist (many actually) can lack both the belief that God exists and the belief that God does not exist simultaneously. Many people see this as agnosticism, but that is incorrect, as agnosticism deals with knowledge of God, not belief in God's existence. Picture this:

A stranger comes up to you and says "I know this guy in Chicago that owns 3 Lamborghinis". You don't know whether to trust this person, but you also have no real reason to doubt him, as you have no evidence either way. Thus, you would (most likely) say to another person asking whether you "bought his story", "I don't believe that this guy exists, but I also don't believe that this guy doesn't exist, as I have a lack of evidence for both positions". Nevertheless, you still "lack believe for the existence of this guy with 3 Lamborghinis".

In shorty, you are erroneously assuming that saying "I don't believe in God or gods" necessarily means that the speaker "believes that God and/or gods don't exist". This is a fallacy.

 

[ArtieE]

To not believe something, is a belief. It is my belief that little green men don't exist. Do I know that absolutely, no. But saying "I don't believe they exist", and saying "I believe they don't exist" is saying the exact same thing.

They are? What if one person says "I don't believe they exist and I don't believe they don't exist either I'm undecided..." and another person says "I believe they don't exist" do you really think they say the same thing?

 

[leibowde84]

To not believe something, is a belief. It is my belief that little green men don't exist. Do I know that absolutely, no. But saying "I don't believe they exist", and saying "I believe they don't exist" is saying the exact same thing.

This is 100% false. I don't believe in Aliens, but I also would never say that I believe that Aliens don't exist. I am "without belief in the existence of aliens" and, simultaneously, "without the belief that aliens do not exist". There is insufficient evidence either way, but that doesn't mean that I am not "without belief in aliens".

 

[leibowde84]

They are? What if one person says "I don't believe they exist and I don't believe they don't exist either I'm undecided..." and another person says "I believe they don't exist" do you really think they say the same thing?

He's not getting it still. I don't know how one can think that "not believing in something" necessarily means "believing that something doesn't exist". It is nonsensical.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

This debate reminds me of the "I want to be a woman" debate from Monty Python's Life of Brian. Search for it on youtube if you have not seen it before.

 

[Ouroboros]

When a person tells you he/she is an atheist, what do you think that tells you? No philosophical treatises please, just a few short sentences.

Based on recent debates, my first thought now (it didn't use to be) is that he/she is just ignorant and haven't though much about the concepts of God(s) and just claim the label "atheist" because he/she has no other label to use.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is this "they do not believe in the existence of God", that is what I am saying is an active belief. It is an postive affirmation of not believing in God. They would not self-identify as atheist if they had no opinion. They clearly have an opinion as you just stated, "They do not believe in the existence of God".

"Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty. Another way of defining belief is, it is a mental representation of an attitude positively orientated towards the likelihood of something being true.

[From Wiki].

To not believe something, is a belief. It is my belief that little green men don't exist. Do I know that absolutely, no. But saying "I don't believe they exist", and saying "I believe they don't exist" is saying the exact same thing.

Imagine a giant jar of jelly beans.

Mr. A says "I'm sure that there's an even number of jelly beans in the jar. I know it."

Mr. B says "I don't think you have any way to know how many jelly beans are in the jar. I'm certainly not going to accept your assertion that the number is even."

Has Mr. B argued that there's an odd number of jelly beans in the jar?

 

[leibowde84]

Imagine a giant jar of jelly beans.

Mr. A says "I'm sure that there's an even number of jelly beans in the jar. I know it."

Mr. B says "I don't think you have any way to know how many jelly beans are in the jar. I'm certainly not going to accept your assertion that the number is even."

Has Mr. B argued that there's an odd number of jelly beans in the jar?

Exactly.

 

[Windwalker]

They are? What if one person says "I don't believe they exist and I don't believe they don't exist either I'm undecided..." and another person says "I believe they don't exist" do you really think they say the same thing?

They aren't the same thing. True. But is calling yourself atheist the new way to say you're undecided? If so, they why say you're an atheist which means no-god? To say no-god, is a positive affirmation of a position. If you are undecided then why not say you "don't know" or had "no-knowledge" which is a-gnosis? Theist is a positive statement, a-theist is a positive statement, agnostic is a neutral statement. Why complicate this?

 

[Windwalker]

Imagine a giant jar of jelly beans.

Mr. A says "I'm sure that there's an even number of jelly beans in the jar. I know it."

Mr. B says "I don't think you have any way to know how many jelly beans are in the jar. I'm certainly not going to accept your assertion that the number is even."

Has Mr. B argued that there's an odd number of jelly beans in the jar?

No, he has taken no position. He therefore is a non-believer in the rational behind Mr. A's assertion. But to say you are an A-Mr.A belief is to say you reject his assertion itself. If you wish to say you simply don't accept his reasoning, then that is not the same thing as saying "even" doesn't exist, which is in fact what Atheism is asserting when it says the proposition of God (or even) is non-existent, a fantasy fairy tale, etc.

Why not do what I would recommend, highly, and simply say the traditional theists' reasoning doesn't hold water to assert God in the way they propose it, but leave God (or the even number equation in your example) out of it? In which case you're not an "atheist", you're an a-mythicist, a-pre-rationalist like me.

 

[Bunyip]

Well, by saying it the person obviously thought it would tell you something... what do you think the person thought he/she was telling you?

I just answered that mate. Read my first response again ok?

 

[Unification]

When a person tells me that he or she is an atheist, I think that tells me that this person is not a theist, that this person doesn't believe in the existence of gods.

When a person tells you he/she is an atheist, what do you think that tells you? No philosophical treatises please, just a few short sentences.

That one doesn't believe in a relatively new European word "god" that was never around in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, or Latin.

That no label is needed, it's inward. Just more terminology and classification that separates into another sect or group of human beings with each their own individual experiences.

That there must be theists and god concepts, terminology, etc. for one to have the self-label of aTHEIST.

Confirmation of beliefs by applying an unneeded label and identity to oneself.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, he has taken no position. He therefore is a non-believer in the rational behind Mr. A's assertion. But to say you are an A-Mr.A belief is to say you reject his assertion itself.

No, it isn't it only means that you see no reason to accept his conclusion.

If you wish to say you simply don't accept his reasoning, then that is not the same thing as saying "even" doesn't exist, which is in fact what Atheism is asserting when it says the proposition of God (or even) is non-existent, a fantasy fairy tale, etc.

That isn't what "atheism" says. All atheism means is that the person hasn't accepted the existence of any gods ("I see no reason to believe that the number of jelly beans is even"). Some atheists go beyond this ("... in fact, I've counted them myself and the number is odd!"), but it isn't necessary for the label "atheist" to apply.

Why not do what I would recommend, highly, and simply say the traditional theists' reasoning doesn't hold water to assert God in the way they propose it, but leave God (or the even number equation in your example) out of it? In which case you're not an "atheist", you're an a-mythicist, a-pre-rationalist like me.

Actually, what you describe is an atheist position.

 

[Unification]

Theism = belief in the existence of gods
a- ="not, without"
Atheism = without belief in the existence of gods

not "belief that gods don't exist"

What are gods?

 

[ArtieE]

If you are undecided then why not say you "don't know" or had "no-knowledge" which is a-gnosis?

Yes that is "agnosis" so why are you dragging "agnosis" into a discussion about atheism? Atheism is about what people believe not what they know don't change the subject.

Soccermatch

1. I don't believe team A wins. (I don't believe gods exist)
2. I don't believe team B wins. (I don't believe gods don't exist)
3. I believe neither undecided.

Since when did saying you don't believe team A wins mean that you automatically believe team B wins?

 

[Unification]

This is 100% false. I don't believe in Aliens, but I also would never say that I believe that Aliens don't exist. I am "without belief in the existence of aliens" and, simultaneously, "without the belief that aliens do not exist". There is insufficient evidence either way, but that doesn't mean that I am not "without belief in aliens".

Saying it another way, you don't believe in aliens but you believe in the potential or chance for aliens to exist.

Simultaneously being not completely sure of what you believe or don't believe. Potential belief and lack of belief co-existing in mind.

Or, you don't believe in the common and notable definition(s) of the word alien but you believe there could be a potential alternative definition(s) of the word alien.

 

[psychoslice]

you would have to be a bit backward to not realize what atheist is, its just common sense.

 

[Unification]

you would have to be a bit backward to not realize what atheist is, its just common sense.

Indeed, a human being that lacks belief in how the word "god" is defined.

 

[psychoslice]

Indeed, a human being that lacks belief in how the word "god" is defined.

And how in the world do we define such a ridiculers idea ???.