What do we really ‘know’

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That begs the question. Can we ‘know’? Believing can be wrong but what about knowing?

Sorry - I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Knowledge is a type of belief.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I was asking about the burn itself. I wonder what it feels as a burn? You suggested burns hurt. How do you know?

I don't think I was implying that at all, just that the table may have its own experience, separate from yours or mine. And in fact, yours and mine experiences are likely different...we can understand that we each have experiences, but we can't know that experience ourselves...but we can talk about it.

We may be able to observed a table, and through careful observation reach some understanding (that is, build a mental model) of some of the characteristics about the table, but as far as I can tell, there is no way for you or I to EXPERIENCE what it's like to be that table.

 

[Balthazzar]

I don't think I was implying that at all, just that the table may have its own experience, separate from yours or mine. And in fact, yours and mine experiences are likely different...we can understand that we each have experiences, but we can't know that experience ourselves...but we can talk about it.

We may be able to observed a table, and through careful observation reach some understanding (that is, build a mental model) of some of the characteristics about the table, but as far as I can tell, there is no way for you or I to EXPERIENCE what it's like to be that table.

I know we can get burned like a table. I can tell you that much.

Edit: Ever feel like you're spinning in circles when speaking to others? I guess, it may or may not be beneficial in an effort to avoid the spin cycles we sometimes run into with those we converse with. Language can be a confusing thing. I'm learning to be more accommodating to understanding nowadays, whereas before I may as well have majored in spinning on my own dime.

 

[Jimmy]

This is a question I have been reflecting on for a while now. Since birth, apart from natural instincts such as hunger, thirst and sleep we seem to all be born with a blank slate for those around us to write on. As life goes on we accumulate ‘information’ which we process. But hey, it’s all borrowed from outside sources. So throughout life what ‘knowledge’ do we actually have innately that is not from others?

So in all honesty how can any of us be knowledgeable if it is all borrowed from others? What knowledge do we really possess if any?

Do you ‘know’ anything that is not borrowed from others?

I know all of existence is dependent on my life.

For others to gain their own wisdom they need to speculate on the question, how did existence get here and how will it end. Wisdom for these answers come from the great cosmos which I call god.

 

[Balthazzar]

I know all of existence is dependent on me.

For others to gain their own wisdom they need to speculate on the question, how did existence get here and how will it end. Wisdom for these answers come from the great cosmos which I call god.

In an understanding such as the one alluded to above, I can only think in terms of life and death. If wisdom is in speculation, I'm unsure it's true. If it is suggested it is in the search for what is true, then I would agree.

 

[Arnaud1221]

What we know is that we need to work to live.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Many question religious and spiritual things. Those who say they aren’t real how do they know? Those who say they are real how do you know it’s just not your imagination or superstition ? What proof or evidence would skeptics require to prove intellectual and spiritual realities exist? That a blind person cannot see the sun is not proof it does not exist.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Religionists. How do you know your understanding of your religion is true and correct? Were you just born into your religion, following family tradition or believe the priest, mulla that everything he says is true? How much have you questioned yourself whether you have got it right or not ?

 

[Spice]

Religionists. How do you know your understanding of your religion is true and correct? Were you just born into your religion, following family tradition or believe the priest, mulla that everything he says is true? How much have you questioned yourself whether you have got it right or not ?

I've been in constant questioning for pretty much my whole life. Am I right? I haven't a clue -- outside of its fruits.

My beliefs give me nothing of material value. It doesn't give a church community, a fellowship of like minded believers, answers to prayers, or security in an afterlife.

But it surpasses my wildest imagination in peace, comfort, courage, love, patience, compassion, and fellowship with some of the most unexpected characters the world has to offer.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I've been in constant questioning for pretty much my whole life. Am I right? I haven't a clue -- outside of its fruits.

My beliefs give me nothing of material value. It doesn't give a church community, a fellowship of like minded believers, answers to prayers, or security in an afterlife.

But it surpasses my wildest imagination in peace, comfort, courage, love, patience, compassion, and fellowship with some of the most unexpected characters the world has to offer.

It makes sense that it is possible to measure and observe religious experiences for oneself but why is it that whereas science can make evident a truth , religion relies on ‘fruits’ and not everyone has the same experiences with the same religious information. So how do we know what we believe is true, is actually true when others disagree. That the earth revolves around the sun is universally agreed but that God exists is not. Well at least billions, perhaps the majority of mankind accept God exists.

 

[Spice]

It makes sense that it is possible to measure and observe religious experiences for oneself but why is it that whereas science can make evident a truth , religion relies on ‘fruits’ and not everyone has the same experiences with the same religious information.

I think religion, even one's concept and relationship to God, is a very individual and personal feature of the human experience. No one, IMO, can determine or judge what is right for another. We can only help and encourage with the questioning, the seeking, the search and watch that no harm is done to others.

So how do we know what we believe is true, is actually true when others disagree. That the earth revolves around the sun is universally agreed but that God exists is not. Well at least billions, perhaps the majority of mankind accept God exists.

Knowing that the earth revolves around the sun is very recently gained knowledge. It is also widely "known" that our beginnings and our purpose are a mystery, at least in the details, along with innumerable other questions of mankind. Do we have to have all the answers? Will it change that much? And would the changes be for the better, or fuel for our destruction?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The reason borrowed from is because it is questionable whether we learned it.

Then trying to "teach you" an answer seems like wasted effort.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Then trying to "teach you" an answer seems like wasted effort.

Everything must be questioned not just automatically accepted as true and fact must be distinguished from opinion.

 

[oldbadger]

......................
Do you ‘know’ anything that is not borrowed from others?

How about 'instincts'?
Since science does accept that all creatures have instinctive drives and reactions, could science perceive these in humans as well?

We auto react in many situations.
What do we do in heat or cold....for example?

In any case, I don't think we borrow information but simply learn from 'life'.

 

[oldbadger]

Everything must be questioned not just automatically accepted as true and fact must be distinguished from opinion.

Do you do this ^^^^^?
People who question everything don't always take notice of answers.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How about 'instincts'?
Since science does accept that all creatures have instinctive drives and reactions, could science perceive these in humans as well?

We auto react in many situations.
What do we do in heat or cold....for example?

In any case, I don't think we borrow information but simply learn from 'life'.

Yes I agree we do learn from experience and that it is not borrowed learning but unique to us In our individual situations. But don’t a lot of people just copy other peoples views in other words ‘go with the flow’ thinking there is safety in numbers? But isnt this dangerous as I could end up believing anything just because it is popular not necessarily because it is true.?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you do this ^^^^^?
People who question everything don't always take notice of answers.

What about self questioning? I see a lot of people questioning whether others have got it right bus have they themselves got it right? Is it possible for our own minds to deceive us?

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is another question I’d like to ask everyone. Is it possible for our own minds to deceive us? And how can we verify that what we do believe is actual truth not just because we claim it is but because it actually is? What is the standard or benchmark to define truth? What our parents teach us? What the education system teaches us? What is popular?

 

[oldbadger]

Yes I agree we do learn from experience and that it is not borrowed learning but unique to us In our individual situations. But don’t a lot of people just copy other peoples views in other words ‘go with the flow’ thinking there is safety in numbers? But isnt this dangerous as I could end up believing anything just because it is popular not necessarily because it is true.?

Hi LoH...
And no.......copying others is not always dangerous. It can be a life saver, just as it is with so many creatures.
A single creature could save a whole herd by simply calling a warning.
It can go wrong, of course, but this means you can't dismiss the copycats.

 

[Heyo]

This is a question I have been reflecting on for a while now. Since birth, apart from natural instincts such as hunger, thirst and sleep we seem to all be born with a blank slate for those around us to write on. As life goes on we accumulate ‘information’ which we process. But hey, it’s all borrowed from outside sources. So throughout life what ‘knowledge’ do we actually have innately that is not from others?

So in all honesty how can any of us be knowledgeable if it is all borrowed from others? What knowledge do we really possess if any?

Do you ‘know’ anything that is not borrowed from others?

We have a lot of intrinsic knowledge and a lot of acquired knowledge that isn't taught.
We know the basic laws of nature. I throw something up and it comes down again. If I observe carefully, I can also see that a thing coming down from a higher throw is faster. We have to be taught the mathematical formula, but the principle is intuitive.
We know basic maths, but some are confused with the formalisms.

So, there is a basis of knowledge, and if we are smart, we can infer other knowledge. But sometimes faulty reasoning can lead us astray. We have to be careful.