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What do you make of God/s

Nobody fully understands what consciousness is. How can you say a child does?

All normal conscious people cannot help but understand what "consciousness" means. Perhaps you refer to the fact that materialists (or so-called "scientifically-minded" people) have great trouble fitting consciousness in their worldview. Indeed there is nothing in all the books of physics, chemistry and biology that would only as much as suggest that consciousness exists. Yet we can't avoid noticing that it does.
 

BSL

Atheist God
Socrates has not written anything, so it can´t be the case that you´ve read him. And in any case a book by a great philosopher is probably not a good choice for an introductory book. As for thinking you are stupid, there is a great distance between stupidity and ignorance.
I seem to remember studying stuff such as
Socrates is a God
All men are God's
So all men are Socrates
I thought you said physical scientist s were clueless. I don't think myself stupid compared too them.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
All normal conscious people cannot help but understand what "consciousness" means. Perhaps you refer to the fact that materialists (or so-called "scientifically-minded" people) have great trouble fitting consciousness in their worldview. Indeed there is nothing in all the books of physics, chemistry and biology that would only as much as suggest that consciousness exists. Yet we can't avoid noticing that it does.

Ask a 4 year old child to define consciousness and see how far that gets you. Many adults can tell you what they perceive it to be (you will get many, many different ansers, though) but they cannot tell you what it is.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Believer/Non-believer, what do you make of the God/s that you know of or pray/ed to

Egyptian-
Greek-
Roman-
Jewish-
Christian-
Islamic-
Dharmic-
Pagan-
Other-
so...Man believes in 'something'...greater than himself
and it's been going on for a long time

and since God makes His presence known only to a few....now and then...
there is plenty of time to form a thought or two without immediate Guidance

doesn't mean the Almighty does not exist
 
Ask a 4 year old child to define consciousness and see how far that gets you. Many adults can tell you what they perceive it to be (you will get many, many different ansers, though) but they cannot tell you what it is.

I didn't say that 10-year olds can define what consciousness is, but that they understand what "consciousness" means. We know this by observing that they use the word in a meaningful way. Incidentally that's a common state of affairs. For example all people with normal eyesight understand what "red" means, but it is impossible to define it. That's why you can't transmit that understanding to a color-blind person, and that's why the inverted spectrum problem exists.

Incidentally one can easily understand why many basic concepts cannot be defined. One defines a concept using other more general concepts. If all concepts admitted of a definition then all definitions would be circular.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I didn't say that 10-year olds can define what consciousness is, but that they understand what "consciousness" means. We know this by observing that they use the word in a meaningful way. Incidentally that's a common state of affairs. For example all people with normal eyesight understand what "red" means, but it is impossible to define it. That's why you can't transmit that understanding to a color-blind person, and that's why the inverted spectrum problem exists.

Incidentally one can easily understand why many basic concepts cannot be defined. One defines a concept using other more general concepts. If all concepts admitted of a definition then all definitions would be circular.
all definitions are circular?

start an op with that title
I would LOVE to play
 

BSL

Atheist God
so...Man believes in 'something'...greater than himself
and it's been going on for a long time

and since God makes His presence known only to a few....now and then...
there is plenty of time to form a thought or two without immediate Guidance

doesn't mean the Almighty does not exist
Of course..we have to believe few others even if the Almighty doesn't exist.
 

BSL

Atheist God
Ask a 4 year old child to define consciousness and see how far that gets you. Many adults can tell you what they perceive it to be (you will get many, many different ansers, though) but they cannot tell you what it is.
Like 4000 years ago people couldn't tell what the sun and stars are?
 
all definitions are circular?

It's a trivial matter: If you have a finite set of concepts and wish to define *each one* of them using other concepts, then it's impossible to avoid circularity.

Consider the simple case of there being only three concepts A, B, and C. Suppose you define A using B. And then you define B using C. When you come to the need of defining C you will have to use either A or B. Which will render some of the previous definitions circular.

The same goes if you increase the number of concepts from 3 to 3.000. But we often don't notice the circularity in real world dictionaries because they include many concepts.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
I didn't say that 10-year olds can define what consciousness is, but that they understand what "consciousness" means. We know this by observing that they use the word in a meaningful way. Incidentally that's a common state of affairs. For example all people with normal eyesight understand what "red" means, but it is impossible to define it. That's why you can't transmit that understanding to a color-blind person, and that's why the inverted spectrum problem exists.

Incidentally one can easily understand why many basic concepts cannot be defined. One defines a concept using other more general concepts. If all concepts admitted of a definition then all definitions would be circular.

I did not mention 10 year-olds.
Pardon the cut and paste, but is this your definition of the two terms?

The terms, meaning and definition, often pop up when discussing words. While many believe them to be synonymous, and they are for the most part, they actually also differ from each other.

Let us look at the definition of “definition”. Dictionary.com defines “definition”, as:

  • The act of making definite, distinct, or clear; a defining: We need a better definition of her responsibilities.
  • The formal statement of the meaning or significance of a word, phrase, idiom, etc., as found in dictionaries. An online dictionary resource, such as Dictionary.com, can give users direct, immediate access to the definitions of a term, allowing them to compare definitions from various dictionaries and stay up to date with an ever-expanding vocabulary.

Whereas, “meaning” is defined as:

  • What is intended to be, or actually is, expressed or indicated; signification; import: the three meanings of a word.
  • The end, purpose, or significance of something: What is the meaning of life? What is the meaning of this intrusion?
  • The nonlinguistic cultural correlate, reference, or denotation of a linguistic form; expression.
  • Linguistic content (opposed to expression).
 
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