What do you think God's reasons are for hiding himself?

[roger1440]

For so many people, it just seems like God isn't there. What do you think God's reasons are for hiding himself and demanding that people have faith, rather than just give everybody proof, and speak so that the ears can hear?

Nobody knows exactly, but you might have some helpful insights from your opinion about the matter.

I think it all comes down to the scripture, "without faith it is impossible to please God"... If we had proof and could hear him clearly, that would deprive us of the ability to have faith... And without it we can't please God.

Then the question is, why is it so important to have faith?

I guess I have to accept that that's just the way God is... Even if it does drive me nuts

Have you ever received a clear message from God?

Could it be God doesn't hide from us, it's us who hide from him?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

... and reason. The main difference between deism and other sorts of theism is that deism denies the existence of anything that could serve as proof of a god, but then asserts a god anyway.

No, it doesn't assert it. Some individual deists may, but most don't, including me. Hell, there are even Christian deists. Deism merely says that, given the universe and the total lack of evidence as to how it came to be, God can't be ruled out. Several atheist scientists have come to admit exactly that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, it doesn't assert it. Some individual deists may, but most don't, including me. Hell, there are even Christian deists. Deism merely says that, given the universe and the total lack of evidence as to how it came to be, God can't be ruled out. Several atheist scientists have come to admit exactly that.

So you don’t actually believe in God?

Edit: more than that, you’re saying that deists in general don’t believe in God?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Could it be God doesn't hide from us, it's us who hide from him?

"It's not that my standards for belief are too low; it's that their standards are too high."

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

So you don’t actually believe in God?

Edit: more than that, you’re saying that deists in general don’t believe in God?

How can you believe in something for which there's no evidence, only a 50/50 possibility? For me at least, it's more correct to call it a hope than a belief, the only alternative being no-God/oblivion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How can you believe in something for which there's no evidence, only a 50/50 possibility? For me at least, it's more correct to call it a hope than a belief, the only alternative being no-God/oblivion.

Why would someone who doesn't actually believe in God call themselves a deist?

(BTW: I'd love to see your math on how you came up with "50/50")

 

[Pudding]

Write a story:
The Lightning Turtle create the universe and humanity, he demands that people have faith in him because faith please him...etc.

Put the story in a box, bury it underground or hide in a cave.

James discover the story, he spread the story world wide, many people become believe in the existence of Lightning Turtle.

Then some people ask:
What is Lightning Turtle's reasons for hiding himself?

Write another story:
The Growing Cup create the universe and humanity, he demands that people have faith in him because faith please him...etc.

Put the story in a box, bury it underground or hide in a cave.

People discover the story and many people become believer of Growing Cup.

Some people ask: What is Growing Cup's reasons for hiding himself?

There is many more stories to be discover all over the world:
The (Kimchi Master/Sad Panda/NomNom Plate...etc) create the universe and humanity, they demands that people have faith in them because faith makes them happy...etc.

What is (Kimchi Master/Sad Panda/NomNom Plate...etc)'s reason for hiding themself?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Why would someone who doesn't actually believe in God call themselves a deist?

Did you not understand what I meant about hope? And I'm only being technical for clarity. I normally refer to it as a belief

(BTW: I'd love to see your math on how you came up with "50/50")

The universe was initiated (Big Bang).
The evidence that it was a spontaneous event is zero.
The evidence that it was triggered/designed by a super-sentient consciousness is also zero.
Yet here we are.
Unless you can come with a third scenario, that's 50/50.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Did you not understand what I meant about hope? And I'm only being technical for clarity. I normally refer to it as a belief

I think I understand you: your “belief” is normally a full-blown belief for all practical purposes, but when you’re asked how you justify your belief, it changes from “belief” to “mere hope.”

The universe was initiated (Big Bang).
The evidence that it was a spontaneous event is zero.
The evidence that it was triggered/designed by a super-sentient consciousness is also zero.
Yet here we are.
Unless you can come with a third scenario, that's 50/50.

If I understand what you’re trying to say - and I very well might not - you’re operating from the assumption that when there are two possibilities, they must be equally likely. No - that’s not how things work.

”The red car that just drove by must have either been a 1969 Ferrari Dino GT or something else. We have no more information about the car to judge, so there’s a 50/50 chance that it was a 1969 Ferrari Dino GT.” Does that sound rational to you?

BTW: if we wanted to, we could dream up as many unfalsifiable “explanations” for the Big Bang as we want. For instance:

- It was caused by universe-creating pixies.
- It was caused by the colour blue via an unknown mechanism.
- It was caused by a natural event in a larger multiverse.
- It was caused by future natural events in our universe that, through phenomena not known to science yet, started a causal chain that propagated backwards through time instead of forwards.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I think I understand you: your “belief” is normally a full-blown belief for all practical purposes, but when you’re asked how you justify your belief, it changes from “belief” to “mere hope.”


If I understand what you’re trying to say - and I very well might not - you’re operating from the assumption that when there are two possibilities, they must be equally likely. No - that’s not how things work.

”The red car that just drove by must have either been a 1969 Ferrari Dino GT or something else. We have no more information about the car to judge, so there’s a 50/50 chance that it was a 1969 Ferrari Dino GT.” Does that sound rational to you?

BTW: if we wanted to, we could dream up as many unfalsifiable “explanations” for the Big Bang as we want. For instance:

- It was caused by universe-creating pixies.
- It was caused by the colour blue via an unknown mechanism.
- It was caused by a natural event in a larger multiverse.
- It was caused by future natural events in our universe that, through phenomena not known to science yet, started a causal chain that propagated backwards through time instead of forwards.

Ah yes, the old pink unicorn argument, AKA The Reducto Ad Absurdum fallacy--and this is absurd in the extreme. You can double down if you want to but you'll be talking to yourself.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ah yes, the old pink unicorn argument, AKA The Reducto Ad Absurdum fallacy--and this is absurd in the extreme. You can double down if you want to but you'll be talking to yourself.

There was no fallacy. You might want to read up on what reductio ad absurdum actually is.

How are any of the other options I listed less reasonable than your god? The thing you might use to justify giving one of them more weight than the other - evidence - is what you say you don't have.

Your approach to this whole issue is skewed. Here's the real set of answers we have to choose between:

- I don't know what caused the universe.
- I don't know what caused the universe, but I bet it involved a god.
- an infinite number of versions of "I don't know what caused the universe, but I bet it involved ________."

"I don't know" is the proper default when we have no other information. In the absence of evidence, only the first choice is a reasonable position.

 

[david-david]

For so many people, it just seems like God isn't there. What do you think God's reasons are for hiding himself and demanding that people have faith, rather than just give everybody proof, and speak so that the ears can hear?

Nobody knows exactly, but you might have some helpful insights from your opinion about the matter.

I think it all comes down to the scripture, "without faith it is impossible to please God"... If we had proof and could hear him clearly, that would deprive us of the ability to have faith... And without it we can't please God.

Then the question is, why is it so important to have faith?

I guess I have to accept that that's just the way God is... Even if it does drive me nuts

Have you ever received a clear message from God?

Wonderful. I praise The LORD God (J)esus Christ.

I can have faith because God hides Himself so that I can increase my faith, true. But my concern is not for myself only. My concerns are also for those that are being 'caught' in the middle of a Country's turmoil even if that individual did or did not have 'faith'. Why are 'innocent, upright' lives being 'caught' in turmoil against their desires in a Country which is supposed to assist the innocent, upright ones rather than assist the non innocent, non upright ones to the point of turmoil?

You never see 'tax payers' out in those riots or protests. But it is the 'tax payers' that are 'paying' for them.

What 'wrong' could they, the tax payers, have done to receive these sorts of turmoils in return for their upright citizenshiped life?


God loves the 'upright'. And so why are these 'upright' ones, with or without 'faith', being 'rewarded' with turmoil?


So sure. I can 'increase' my faith but what is that going to do, even for myself, in and towards Countries who allows and repays upright citizens with turmoil?


Think about it. Upright citizens were the ones that 'paved' the roads, fixed broken roads, fixed broken street lights, etc, with their tax payments. They worked, they paid taxes so that the place they worked in could be kept upright and clean so they could continue to enjoy living and working.

Then all of a sudden, these 'younger' ones come into the seats of Power, the Government, and they begin neglecting and disregarding what every upright citizen did up to their 'adult age'. 40 year olds in these seats begin telling every person who came before them that how they are currently 'living' is not up to 'Modern Standards'. What is that about?


Daniel 11:36-39
"And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain."

This 'king' is going to tell every person that 'came before him', that the way they live their lives are not up to par to 'modern standards'.

Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers.. He shall magnify himself above all, including other humans, including his own parents, including the parents of others.

But he can't be more than the age of Grandparents, can he?


And you expect me or others to let this person run all over other parents and grandparents that came before him just because he was 'blessed' enough by God to become 'king' in the first place?

Faith?


Kings and Rulers need 'checks and balances' also. They are placed in seats of rule, sure. But they are there because of The LORD God (J)esus Christ. I have an obligation to keep God's anointed rulers in proper 'checks and balances' if i want to also be known to belong to God. And the kings and rulers have an obligation to 'rule and govern' with concern and care to what the citizens are saying.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Religious monotheists tend to believe their respective God or Goddess has revealed His or Herself depending on the person.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

There was no fallacy. You might want to read up on what reductio ad absurdum actually is.

How are any of the other options I listed less reasonable than your god? The thing you might use to justify giving one of them more weight than the other - evidence - is what you say you don't have.

Your approach to this whole issue is skewed. Here's the real set of answers we have to choose between:

- I don't know what caused the universe.
- I don't know what caused the universe, but I bet it involved a god.
- an infinite number of versions of "I don't know what caused the universe, but I bet it involved ________."

"I don't know" is the proper default when we have no other information. In the absence of evidence, only the first choice is a reasonable position.

How many fallacies are there?

 

[Gner]

For so many people, it just seems like God isn't there. What do you think God's reasons are for hiding himself and demanding that people have faith, rather than just give everybody proof, and speak so that the ears can hear?

Nobody knows exactly, but you might have some helpful insights from your opinion about the matter.

I think it all comes down to the scripture, "without faith it is impossible to please God"... If we had proof and could hear him clearly, that would deprive us of the ability to have faith... And without it we can't please God.

Then the question is, why is it so important to have faith?

I guess I have to accept that that's just the way God is... Even if it does drive me nuts

Have you ever received a clear message from God?

The Lord God converses with me everyday.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How many fallacies are there?

Uncountably many.

A logical fallacy is just a mistake of reasoning. How many different ways are there to make a mistake?

Anna Karenina principle - Wikipedia

 

[Neutral Name]

For so many people, it just seems like God isn't there. What do you think God's reasons are for hiding himself and demanding that people have faith, rather than just give everybody proof, and speak so that the ears can hear?

Nobody knows exactly, but you might have some helpful insights from your opinion about the matter.

I think it all comes down to the scripture, "without faith it is impossible to please God"... If we had proof and could hear him clearly, that would deprive us of the ability to have faith... And without it we can't please God.

Then the question is, why is it so important to have faith?

I guess I have to accept that that's just the way God is... Even if it does drive me nuts

Have you ever received a clear message from God?

I don't think that God hides. Since God is love, God does not force herself on us. We must choose to allow God into our lives. I call it connecting. Even if we think we want God in our lives, we must feel it and not fear or doubt.

I have received many messages from God and I have had many miracles. I know that God is real.