What do you think of my solution to Islamic immigration?

[leibowde84]

It's not a ban on any ethnicity, which Muslim is not an ethnicity but whatevs. Or else the list would have consisted of Muslim only countries. While the list has changed a bit I will go by this one.

Chad, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Somalia, Syria, Venezuala, and Yemen.

Only 1 of these countries is on the top 10 list of Muslim majority countries. That being Iran which is 7th on the list of top 10 majority Muslim countries. With North Korea with an only estimated 3,000 Muslims.

If Trump is a Muslim hating racist he is crap at it.

The list was to vet travelers from high security risk countries. It has nothing to do with what color their skin is or what religion they worship. Or else the top 10 Muslim majority countries list and the travel ban would more closely resemble each other.

This comment has absolutely nothing to do with our conversation. Can you at least admit that Obama did not plan on using the list for any ban?

 

[Enoch07]

This comment has absolutely nothing to do with our conversation. Can you at least admit that Obama did not plan on using the list for any ban?

Obama's intention with the list is irrelevant. Because he never completed the policy let alone initiated it. My argument is that he is responsible for naming the countries, not Trump.

 

[leibowde84]

Obama's intention with the list is irrelevant. Because he never completed the policy let alone initiated it. My argument is that he is responsible for naming the countries, not Trump.

Right. No one disagrees with that, because using the list for increased security wouldn't have been an issue at all. It is the ban that is so controversial.

 

[UpperLimits]

Are you really that hollow in your head? Under Shari'ah Law non-muslims govern themselves under their own laws. I gave a source stating that the representation of Shari'ah Law are of those who use it to gain political influence and power but nonetheless tainted the spirit of Shari'ah Law.

I really have to question who really has the "hollow head" in this situation.

One of the basic principles of democracy is that everyone is equal under the law. You simply can NOT have equality under the law when one group of people is judged by a separate set of rules. Period. From a personal standpoint, I don't really care who, or what they want to worship. For all I care they can go worship the root of a kumquat tree, if that's what pleases them. But when it comes to the rule of law, they will abide by the rules established by our society. That is simply NOT NEGOTIABLE.

It is a known fact that Muslims will get into positions of political power and then turn the forces of authority against the population of the host country. We see this happening all over Europe, right now. I see it happening in Canada. And then they start changing the rules in their favor. THAT is the danger. It must be resisted.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I really have to question who really has the "hollow head" in this situation.

One of the basic principles of democracy is that everyone is equal under the law. You simply can NOT have equality under the law when one group of people is judged by a separate set of rules. Period. From a personal standpoint, I don't really care who, or what they want to worship. For all I care they can go worship the root of a kumquat tree, if that's what pleases them. But when it comes to the rule of law, they will abide by the rules established by our society. That is simply NOT NEGOTIABLE.

I

You understand that Shariah law is only relevant for cases between to Muslims who agree to abide by an Islamic court's rulings, right? Much like Jews in a Rabbinic Court, or Catholics in a Canon Court, right?

No one is talking about having separate laws for Muslims when it comes to criminal matters, or civil matters where one party doesn't want to use Islamic law?

It is a known fact that Muslims will get into positions of political power and then turn the forces of authority against the population of the host country. We see this happening all over Europe, right now. I see it happening in Canada. And then they start changing the rules in their favor. THAT is the danger. It must be resisted.

A known fact on the order of all the "No Go" zones in Europe, I assume?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

The point is. That people accused Trump of being racist because he chose the countries that he did. But he did not chose the countries, Obama did. So if anyone is racist on those grounds, it would be Obama. Because the ban is not a ban of any particular ethnicity. Just travelers from high risk countries. Countries that Obama chose.

No, people assumed he was a religious bigot because he said this:
Donald Trump: ban all Muslims entering US

EDIT: First post in a long, long time. Good to be back!

 

[Enoch07]

No, people assumed he was a religious bigot because he said this:
Donald Trump: ban all Muslims entering US

EDIT: First post in a long, long time. Good to be back!

If you read the article. You can see this was not long after the San Bernardino mass shooting. Everyone always reacts strongly to these mass shootings. People, including politicians on a campaign trail mind you, always make such dramatic statements after these incidents occur.

It's understandable, GOP want tougher immigration when a terrorist attack happens, Liberals want tougher gun control after a mass shooting. These are more of a "bark", but not much of a "bite". It's basically "virtue signaling", but on a larger scale. /shrug

 

[UpperLimits]

You understand that Shariah law is only relevant for cases between to Muslims who agree to abide by an Islamic court's rulings, right? Much like Jews in a Rabbinic Court, or Catholics in a Canon Court, right?

No one is talking about having separate laws for Muslims when it comes to criminal matters, or civil matters where one party doesn't want to use Islamic law? A known fact on the order of all the "No Go" zones in Europe, I assume?

You do understand that I've already stated that two standards of justice equate to inequality under the law - don't you? Why on earth would you think that I would change my opinion regardless of which religious group was running the court?

And the idea that "only" participating religious adherents would be affected by sharia courts is a complete pile of horse****. You are assuming that, if by chance, a non-Muslim wouldn't want to be judged in a sharia court, that the Muslim would just bow down and say, "Okie Dokie - let's just go the the regular court system...."

Can I ask what kind of la-la land do you live in? Because this simply doesn't happen in real life.

It is a well established FACT that the police are regularly stonewalled by Muslims who REFUSE to allow justice to proceed; They will not participate in,nor supply information to; or abide by the decisions of the regular judicial system. This results in justice being DENIED to non Muslim people who do not wish to participate in their separate (so-called) justice system.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

You do understand that I've already stated that two standards of justice equate to inequality under the law - don't you? Why on earth would you think that I would change my opinion regardless of which religious group was running the court?

And the idea that "only" participating religious adherents would be affected by sharia courts is a complete pile of horse****. You are assuming that, if by chance, a non-Muslim wouldn't want to be judged in a sharia court, that the Muslim would just bow down and say, "Okie Dokie - let's just go the the regular court system...."

Can I ask what kind of la-la land do you live in? Because this simply doesn't happen in real life.

It is a well established FACT that the police are regularly stonewalled by Muslims who REFUSE to allow justice to proceed; They will not participate in,nor supply information to; or abide by the decisions of the regular judicial system. This results in justice being DENIED to non Muslim people who do not wish to participate in their separate (so-called) justice system.

Nonsense. Civil courts still exist, and Muslims are just as subject to them as anyone else.

 

[UpperLimits]

Nonsense. Civil courts still exist, and Muslims are just as subject to them as anyone else.

No. You are the one believing in nonsense. I've not even hinted that civil courts don't exist, or that they don't have the final authority in our land - at least for now. So don't even try to twist my words that way.

The reality however, is that civil courts require evidence to make their decisions. Which can be a near impossibility in many instances, as entire communities of Muslims have (in many instances) been shown to work together to suppress that needed evidence from civil authorities.

 

[Willamena]

Rather than ban Muslims I would be in favor of instituting an effective system that screens people out based on one question and that question is do you want to replace the constitution with religious theocracy.

I think it's great, until someone lies.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

No. You are the one believing in nonsense. I've not even hinted that civil courts don't exist, or that they don't have the final authority in our land - at least for now. So don't even try to twist my words that way.

The reality however, is that civil courts require evidence to make their decisions. Which can be a near impossibility in many instances, as entire communities of Muslims have (in many instances) been shown to work together to suppress that needed evidence from civil authorities.

What nonsense do I believe, pray? If civil courts still exist, what's the problem with voluntary sharia law?

Ooh, I see. So it's not that the big scary Muslims want to force everyone to live by sharia, rather they're all conspiring to hide evidence from the legal courts.

And you have evidence for this inflammatory claim, of course? Or did the big scary Muslims hide that too?

 

[UpperLimits]

What nonsense do I believe, pray? If civil courts still exist, what's the problem with voluntary sharia law?

Ooh, I see. So it's not that the big scary Muslims want to force everyone to live by sharia, rather they're all conspiring to hide evidence from the legal courts.

And you have evidence for this inflammatory claim, of course? Or did the big scary Muslims hide that too?

Oh, not at all! One just has to read a newspaper occasionally.

Stories like this are common in the (very) few right wing news outlets, but are a rare commodity in the larger left wing controlled news media outlets. (Which, unfortunately, are in the the majority.) Although, sometimes the stories will "blow up" in their faces and they have little choice but to print them. And when they are forced to print them, they'll try as much as possible to relegate the stories to about page 73 of the classifieds so that as few people as possible (such as yourself) ever see them.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Oh, not at all! One just has to read a newspaper occasionally.

Stories like this are common in the (very) few right wing news outlets, but are a rare commodity in the larger left wing controlled news media outlets. (Which, unfortunately, are in the the majority.) Although, sometimes the stories will "blow up" in their faces and they have little choice but to print them. And when they are forced to print them, they'll try as much as possible to relegate the stories to about page 73 of the classifieds so that as few people as possible (such as yourself) ever see them.

Uh-huh.

 

[Notanumber]

Sorry if I don't subscribe to your bigoted view. I don't mind a call to prayer. I don't mind Shari'ah so long as murder is not involved where the people circumvent the state law. Shari'ah does not affect non-Muslims. I don't know how many times I can repeat that.

This looks like a good resource - Sharia Law for Non-Muslims - Political Islam

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

This looks like a good resource - Sharia Law for Non-Muslims - Political Islam

Try looking for sources; a. that don't require buying something, b. don't come from biased sites.

 

[Notanumber]

Try looking for sources; a. that don't require buying something, b. don't come from biased sites.

The man is a world-renowned expert on the subject of Islamic doctrine and Non-believers with a PhD behind his name - Bill Warner (Political Islam) - Wikipedia

He found out that 51% of all words of the trilogy are not related to Muslims but to Non-Muslims.

You can download the PDF file for free - https://www.politicalislam.com/wp-c...ook-Inside/Sharia_Non-Muslim_look_inside.pdf

It is full of fascinating facts.

This book is dedicated to the millions of victims of jihad

over the past 1400 years.

May you read this and become a voice for the voiceless.

Islam has a political doctrine and a religious doctrine. Its political doctrine is of concern for everyone, while religious Islam is of concern only for Muslims.

Europe is witnessing a rise in Islamic supremacism, demands for Sharia, and violent intimidation. Laws passed by European states, and resolutions in universities and other organizations have stifled free speech. While limiting criticism of Islam, authorities have failed to prevent Islamic preachers inciting violence against women and Jews, and have tolerated public calls for violence. Islam has become a protected minority.

The EU has entertained the notion of laws to crack down on “intolerance”, including “Islamophobia”.

Sharia principles are enforced—either through “Sharia tribunals” and mainstream courts, or through violent intimidation.

Misogynistic de facto parallel systems are common, honour violence and homophobia widespread, and the harassment of Jews has intensified.

Sharia tribunals operate in the UK, run by Islamists who openly defend a man’s “right” to use violence against his wife. In the UK and Denmark, “Sharia controlled zones” have been declared, and in Germany, “Sharia patrols” roam city streets attempting to impose Sharia norms—particularly targeting women and alcohol drinkers.

A French magazine was fire-bombed for printing Mohammed cartoons, and Austria has seen prosecutions for negative views of Islam and its prophet.

Violence against women and Jews has risen with many Jews leaving the region.

There is an increase of rape. Rape of non-Muslims is in accordance with the Sharia.

The establishment’s response shows more concern with preventing discussion of these facts, than in confronting them.


The USA is no better - Sharia has a lot to say about Kafirs (non-Muslims) and how they are to be treated, subjugated and ruled. Sharia claims political supremacy over the Constitution.

There is nothing good for non-Muslims in the Sharia. This is why every unbeliever has a reason to know Sharia law, especially those in politics, policy, regulation and legal matters. Sharia law is about the unbeliever as well as the Muslim. Islam’s attitudes and actions about unbelievers are political, not religious.

Even though Sharia violates every principle of our Constitution, it is being implemented today, because Americans are unaware about what Sharia means.


SHARIA: Sharia is based on the principles found in the Koran and other Islamic religious/political texts. There are no common principles between American law and Sharia.

Under Sharia law:

There is no freedom of religion

There is no freedom of speech

There is no freedom of thought

There is no freedom of artistic expression

There is no freedom of the press

There is no equality of peoples—a non-Muslim, a Kafir, is never equal to a Muslim

There is no equal protection under Sharia for different classes of people. Justice is dualistic, with one set of laws for Muslim males and different laws for women and non-Muslims.

There are no equal rights for women

Women can be beaten

A non-Muslim cannot bear arms

There is no democracy, since democracy means that a non-Muslim is equal to a Muslim

Our Constitution is a man-made document of ignorance, jahiliyah, that must submit to Sharia

Non-Muslims are dhimmis, second-class subjects

All governments must be ruled by Sharia law

Unlike common law, Sharia is not interpretive, nor can it be changed

There is no Golden Rule



This book discusses Islam as a political system. It does not discuss Muslims or their religion. Muslims are people and vary from one to another. Religion is what one does to go to Paradise and avoid Hell. It is not useful nor necessary to discuss Islam as a religion.

We must talk about Islam in the political realm, because it is a powerful political system, a system that concerns you. Islam is called the religion of peace, but its politics are the politics of jihad and war. The peace comes only after you submit. The religion does not affect the non-Muslim, but its politics affect every person.


The Koran says that the Kafir may be deceived, plotted against, hated, enslaved, mocked, tortured and worse.

Islam devotes a great amount of energy to the Kafir.


Religious Islam is what Muslims do to go to Paradise and avoid Hell. What Mohammed did to Kafirs was not religious, but political. Political Islam is what is of concern to Kafirs, not the religion. Who cares how a Muslim worships, but every one of us is concerned as to what they do to us and say about us. Political Islam should be of concern to every Kafir.


Jihad means war against Kafirs to establish Islam’s Sharia law.

Koran 2:216 You are commanded to fight although you dislike it. You may hate something that is good for you, and love something that is bad for you. Allah knows and you do not.

Koran 4:89 They would have you become Kafirs like them so you will all be the same. Therefore, do not take any of them as friends until they have abandoned their homes to fight for Allah’s cause [jihad]. But if they turn back, find them and kill them wherever they are.

The whole world must submit to Islam; Kafirs are the enemy simply by not being Muslims. Violence and terror are made sacred by the Koran. Peace comes only with submission to Islam.

The religion of Islam was a failure, but politics combined with religion was a total success.

Jihad can be practiced by the sword, speech, writing or money. The jihad of the sword is the least dangerous to a society. Jihadist groups are not as dangerous to the West as the civilizational jihad of groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood.

Read the PDF and point out anything that he has got wrong.

 

[UpperLimits]

...

We must talk about Islam in the political realm, because it is a powerful political system, a system that concerns you. Islam is called the religion of peace, but its politics are the politics of jihad and war. The peace comes only after you submit. ...

...

Well, not quite. After everyone has been subjugated to Islam, then the fighting turns inward among themselves so they can fight about who has the "purer" form of Islam. There is NO peace in Islam. Only wolves and sheep.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

This looks like a good resource - Sharia Law for Non-Muslims - Political Islam

I don't need to go in depth with your source....

However out of my curiosity I did see the following:

"Non-believers are so important for Islam that they are given several names. Christians and Jews are called “People of the Book” or “infidels”. Other non-Muslims are called “atheist”, “polytheist” and “pagan”."

Source:Center for the Study of Political Islam

A simple Wikipedia search which I hate reference actually contradicts the company to whom which you referenced states the following:

"The term kafir is not synonymous with "non-Muslim"; thus, someone who makes good deeds without expectation of worldly rewards would not be a kafir."

Source:Kafir - Wikipedia

Are Jews and Christians considered Kafirs?

"A kafir rejects the truth knowingly and disbelieves in God, the angels, the messengers, and the hereafter. It has many meanings in the Qur’an and in addition to the ‘disbeliever’, it also refers to someone who defies and/or disobeys God defiantly. In that sense, Satan was the first Kafir, even though he did believe in God!......

Do not argue with the People of the Book except in the best manner— except for those wicked amongst them, and say: “We acknowledge what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you; Our God and your God is the same. To Him we peacefully submit.” 29:46

Read more at Does the Quran label Jews and Christians as infidels or kafirs?

Apparently your source couldn't even do a simple research but instead made an incorrect assumption on their Facebook page. This means their inability to lay out correct information means they're biased and most likely an evangelical source although they claim to be non-religious and even if they are, it makes it worse that they couldn't do simple 10 min research which means it's not a credible source period....SMH

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The man is a world-renowned expert on the subject of Islamic doctrine and Non-believers with a PhD behind his name - Bill Warner (Political Islam) - Wikipedia

He found out that 51% of all words of the trilogy are not related to Muslims but to Non-Muslims.

You can download the PDF file for free - https://www.politicalislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PDF-Look-Inside/Sharia_Non-Muslim_look_inside.pdf

It is full of fascinating facts.

This book is dedicated to the millions of victims of jihad

over the past 1400 years.

May you read this and become a voice for the voiceless.

Islam has a political doctrine and a religious doctrine. Its political doctrine is of concern for everyone, while religious Islam is of concern only for Muslims.

Europe is witnessing a rise in Islamic supremacism, demands for Sharia, and violent intimidation. Laws passed by European states, and resolutions in universities and other organizations have stifled free speech. While limiting criticism of Islam, authorities have failed to prevent Islamic preachers inciting violence against women and Jews, and have tolerated public calls for violence. Islam has become a protected minority.

The EU has entertained the notion of laws to crack down on “intolerance”, including “Islamophobia”.

Sharia principles are enforced—either through “Sharia tribunals” and mainstream courts, or through violent intimidation.

Misogynistic de facto parallel systems are common, honour violence and homophobia widespread, and the harassment of Jews has intensified.

Sharia tribunals operate in the UK, run by Islamists who openly defend a man’s “right” to use violence against his wife. In the UK and Denmark, “Sharia controlled zones” have been declared, and in Germany, “Sharia patrols” roam city streets attempting to impose Sharia norms—particularly targeting women and alcohol drinkers.

A French magazine was fire-bombed for printing Mohammed cartoons, and Austria has seen prosecutions for negative views of Islam and its prophet.

Violence against women and Jews has risen with many Jews leaving the region.

There is an increase of rape. Rape of non-Muslims is in accordance with the Sharia.

The establishment’s response shows more concern with preventing discussion of these facts, than in confronting them.


The USA is no better - Sharia has a lot to say about Kafirs (non-Muslims) and how they are to be treated, subjugated and ruled. Sharia claims political supremacy over the Constitution.

There is nothing good for non-Muslims in the Sharia. This is why every unbeliever has a reason to know Sharia law, especially those in politics, policy, regulation and legal matters. Sharia law is about the unbeliever as well as the Muslim. Islam’s attitudes and actions about unbelievers are political, not religious.

Even though Sharia violates every principle of our Constitution, it is being implemented today, because Americans are unaware about what Sharia means.


SHARIA: Sharia is based on the principles found in the Koran and other Islamic religious/political texts. There are no common principles between American law and Sharia.

Under Sharia law:

There is no freedom of religion

There is no freedom of speech

There is no freedom of thought

There is no freedom of artistic expression

There is no freedom of the press

There is no equality of peoples—a non-Muslim, a Kafir, is never equal to a Muslim

There is no equal protection under Sharia for different classes of people. Justice is dualistic, with one set of laws for Muslim males and different laws for women and non-Muslims.

There are no equal rights for women

Women can be beaten

A non-Muslim cannot bear arms

There is no democracy, since democracy means that a non-Muslim is equal to a Muslim

Our Constitution is a man-made document of ignorance, jahiliyah, that must submit to Sharia

Non-Muslims are dhimmis, second-class subjects

All governments must be ruled by Sharia law

Unlike common law, Sharia is not interpretive, nor can it be changed

There is no Golden Rule



This book discusses Islam as a political system. It does not discuss Muslims or their religion. Muslims are people and vary from one to another. Religion is what one does to go to Paradise and avoid Hell. It is not useful nor necessary to discuss Islam as a religion.

We must talk about Islam in the political realm, because it is a powerful political system, a system that concerns you. Islam is called the religion of peace, but its politics are the politics of jihad and war. The peace comes only after you submit. The religion does not affect the non-Muslim, but its politics affect every person.


The Koran says that the Kafir may be deceived, plotted against, hated, enslaved, mocked, tortured and worse.

Islam devotes a great amount of energy to the Kafir.


Religious Islam is what Muslims do to go to Paradise and avoid Hell. What Mohammed did to Kafirs was not religious, but political. Political Islam is what is of concern to Kafirs, not the religion. Who cares how a Muslim worships, but every one of us is concerned as to what they do to us and say about us. Political Islam should be of concern to every Kafir.


Jihad means war against Kafirs to establish Islam’s Sharia law.

Koran 2:216 You are commanded to fight although you dislike it. You may hate something that is good for you, and love something that is bad for you. Allah knows and you do not.

Koran 4:89 They would have you become Kafirs like them so you will all be the same. Therefore, do not take any of them as friends until they have abandoned their homes to fight for Allah’s cause [jihad]. But if they turn back, find them and kill them wherever they are.

The whole world must submit to Islam; Kafirs are the enemy simply by not being Muslims. Violence and terror are made sacred by the Koran. Peace comes only with submission to Islam.

The religion of Islam was a failure, but politics combined with religion was a total success.

Jihad can be practiced by the sword, speech, writing or money. The jihad of the sword is the least dangerous to a society. Jihadist groups are not as dangerous to the West as the civilizational jihad of groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood.

Read the PDF and point out anything that he has got wrong.

"Bill French of Nashville, who writes as Bill Warner, addresses a standing-room-only group of about 100 at Whitesburg Baptist Church in Huntsville Sunday evening as a guest of the Christian Citizen Task Force. French is listed as one of the top 10 "Anti-Muslim Inner Circle" by the Southern Povery Law Center, which monitors hate speech. (The Huntsville Times/Kay Campbell).....

French is listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate speech, as one of the top 10 of the Anti-Muslim Inner Circle in the U.S. He is the founder and director of the for-profit Center for the Study of Political Islam and was active in the fight against the mosque recently constructed in Murfreesboro.

Dr. Keith Augustus Burton, director of the Center for Adventist-Muslim Relations at Oakwood University, said that, despite French’s amiable manner and wide-ranging study, a message of hatred did get through.

“I don’t see much difference in what we just experienced and what the member of the PLO experienced,” Burton said afterwards, referring to a documentary clip shown by the CCTF as a prelude to French’s talk. The documentary was an interview with a man, now a Christian, who told of his indoctrination as a Muslim terrorist from the age of 6.


Burton also questioned many of French’s historical conclusions.

“There is historical fact, and then there is historical truth,” said Burton, who has written on the history of religion French said he first began studying Islam as a young man, when he left the Church of Christ, in which he was raised, and studied the Sufis, Islamic mystics. He is now a Buddhist."

Dr. Bill Warner is a prominent and highly respected expert on Political Islam. He holds a PhD in Physics & Applied Mathematics from North Carolina State University. He has held positions as a research scientist, business owner and University Professor.

Source:Dr. Bill Warner, Author - Political Islam

So your sources holds degrees in physics and applied mathematics yet that makes him an expert on Islam and Shariah Law? Dude do you know how to research to back up your claims? You're losing this battle.