What do you think of my solution to Islamic immigration?

[Notanumber]

In other words you prefer to not read actual credible material.....Got it

I watched your video and I am not going try any character assassination just because I don’t agree with what he says.

The historical context would be fine if it did not apply to this day.

Who in their right mind would have trusted a messenger from Muhammad?

Even back then Islam was all about money and power, if you converted to Islam you had to pay more than someone who was born a Muslim.

If you were able to work, you had to pay the tax, almost like being a slave of Islam.

I believe they were obligated to fight for Islam.

Are you made to feel subdued and humiliated when you pay your taxes in western countries?

 

[YmirGF]

This for one, so wildly overstated:

Here are the approximate deaths due to jihad over the last 1400 years:

Christians ........................... 60 million
Hindus................................ 80 million
Buddhists .......................... 10 million
African slave jihad ........... 120 million

Total .................................. 270 million


I'd recommend Heaven on Earth: A Journey Through Shariʻa Law by Sadakat Kadri as a good (and entertaining) intro to the subject.

Hence I quoted 30-80 million deaths during the invasion of the Indian sub-continent. It's not like anyone was keeping an accurate tally during this 600 year rampage.

 

[YmirGF]

Christianity has Islam beat.....I didn't even count contemporary Christians who kill and their death toll.

I'm certainly not going to disagree that the history of Christianity was not drenched in blood but that history hardly excuses the excesses of Muslims during the various Muslim conquests and subsequent occupations.

 

[Augustus]

Hence I quoted 30-80 million deaths during the invasion of the Indian sub-continent. It's not like anyone was keeping an accurate tally during this 600 year rampage.

Even 30 is probably much too high. Almost all historical numbers are vastly inflated as, as you mention, people had no ability to accurately count them, and there were incentives on both sides to inflate casualty figures over the centuries.

The "Hindu genocide" is completely mythical though. They were just wars of conquest that were par for the course in every society during that period.

 

[YmirGF]

Even 30 is probably much too high. Almost all historical numbers are vastly inflated as, as you mention, people had no ability to accurately count them, and there were incentives on both sides to inflate casualty figures over the centuries.

The "Hindu genocide" is completely mythical though. They were just wars of conquest that were par for the course in every society during that period.

And I agree with that synopsis. Numbers are the playthings of historians used to back given narratives.

 

[Augustus]

Do you believe that if a Muslim wants to water down Sharia Law he is still a true Muslim?

Do you believe that if a Muslim treats his wife or daughter as an equal he is still a true Muslim?

Do you believe that the Quran was a moral revolution at the time and if so can the same be claimed for its continued use today?

1. I don't see fundamentalists as having the sole claim to be "true" Muslims/Christians or whatever. This would be ahistorical as regards religion. Also Sharia law is not this fixed monolith that you think.
2. See above
3. It wasn't a moral revolution at the time as it was reflective of its society. The jahiliyya stuff is exaggerated myth.

 

[Notanumber]

1. I don't see fundamentalists as having the sole claim to be "true" Muslims/Christians or whatever. This would be ahistorical as regards religion. Also Sharia law is not this fixed monolith that you think.
2. See above
3. It wasn't a moral revolution at the time as it was reflective of its society. The jahiliyya stuff is exaggerated myth.

Do Christians have a modern day political ideology that they wish to impose on others?

 

[Augustus]

Do Christians have a modern day political ideology that they wish to impose on others?

My point was that it is wrong to view fundamentalists as being the sole holders of the 'true' understanding of any religion.

 

[Notanumber]

My point was that it is wrong to view fundamentalists as being the sole holders of the 'true' understanding of any religion.

It is not the religion of Islam that concerns me it is the political ideology being regurgitated from the dark ages.

 

[YmirGF]

It is not the religion of Islam that concerns me it is the political ideology being regurgitated from the dark ages.

That and the idea that Islam actually has anything to offer a modern world.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I watched your video and I am not going try any character assassination just because I don’t agree with what he says.

The historical context would be fine if it did not apply to this day.

Who in their right mind would have trusted a messenger from Muhammad?

Even back then Islam was all about money and power, if you converted to Islam you had to pay more than someone who was born a Muslim.

If you were able to work, you had to pay the tax, almost like being a slave of Islam.

I believe they were obligated to fight for Islam.

Are you made to feel subdued and humiliated when you pay your taxes in western countries?

Your ignorance of Islam and historical Islam is evident. You'll go off conservative websites/blogs as a means as a confirmation bias. You have not produce not one single objective evidence to back up your claims. First you want me to produce a video (which I did) so you can go off the body language. Then you're make the statement "the historical context would be fine if it didn't apply to this day."

Dude there is nothing more to discuss with you here on out. You're anti-Islam, I get it. Then really there is no point having an intellectual discussion because there is no intellectual and there is no discussion.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm certainly not going to disagree that the history of Christianity was not drenched in blood but that history hardly excuses the excesses of Muslims during the various Muslim conquests and subsequent occupations.

Well I can say a lot of so-called religious leaders were corrupted by power within their own ranks. The expansion of Islam especially beforethe Golden Age did have imperialistic qualities.

 

[Notanumber]

Your ignorance of Islam and historical Islam is evident. You'll go off conservative websites/blogs as a means as a confirmation bias. You have not produce not one single objective evidence to back up your claims. First you want me to produce a video (which I did) so you can go off the body language. Then you're make the statement "the historical context would be fine if it didn't apply to this day."

Dude there is nothing more to discuss with you here on out. You're anti-Islam, I get it. Then really there is no point having an intellectual discussion because there is no intellectual and there is no discussion.

It sounds like you are losing the argument.

 

[Notanumber]

Here is another interesting video.

Why did Muslims need to invent stories if Islam is perfect?

 

[UpperLimits]

...
Christianity has Islam beat.....I didn't even count contemporary Christians who kill and their death toll.

I'm sure you can... But new math doesn't count. We need real numbers.

 

[UpperLimits]

Well I can say a lot of so-called religious leaders were corrupted by power within their own ranks. The expansion of Islam especially beforethe Golden Age did have imperialistic qualities.

That can be said of any religion on the planet. You just have an axe to grind with Christians.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm sure you can... But new math doesn't count. We need real numbers.

You want modern time numbers...Wanna start with middle passage...The Christians that held slaves through the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That can be said of any religion on the planet. You just have an axe to grind with Christians.

I WAS CHRISTIAN...Does not mean I do not believe in the message of Jesus, but his words, teachings, and actions are lost among evangelical white christians. The same Christians who portrayed Obama as Satan. The same Christians who string up human beings up for different complexion, the same Christians who drown women for assuming they were witches. No axe to grind there is no true Christianity except through what Jesus did and you cannot follow that.

Christians have more excuses for their actions than someone going to jail. I know Christians in my own family that go to church faithfully yet talk behind the backs of others. Backbiting is a sin in the Bible did you know that? So when you talk about your co-worker when they are not present, you sin...

 

[UpperLimits]

You want modern time numbers...Wanna start with middle passage...The Christians that held slaves through the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade?

Regarding the "new math" quip.... I don't suppose that the word "facetious" has any meaning in your world - does it?

* * * * *

As for the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, I have little doubt that there were a few people who professed to be Christians who had slaves. Quite possibly, a couple of them may have even been respected in their community.

However: The work of closing down the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade was spearheaded by a Christian man named Wilbur Wilberforce and was carried on by the general work of the Christian community. Depending on what brand of Christianity you think are the "real Christians," the trade was either loved, or despised. Personally, my theology comes from the group of Christians that despised the trade.

 

[UpperLimits]

I WAS CHRISTIAN...Does not mean I do not believe in the message of Jesus,

Interesting.....

but his words, teachings, and actions are lost among evangelical white christians.

Generally I could agree with you here. But I would never make the racial statement you just did.

BTW, ignoring the words of Christ (while claiming faithfulness) is hardly unique to any demographic.

The same Christians who portrayed Obama as Satan.

You mean he isn't? (gasp!!!)

Yeah, I know the ones you're talking about. Obama was a globalist. It is quite reasonable to expect a globalist to live according to their globalist ideology. I don't agree with globalism. But that doesn't make Obama, "Satan," either.

.... No axe to grind there is no true Christianity except through what Jesus did and you cannot follow that.

Christians have more excuses for their actions than someone going to jail. I know Christians in my own family that go to church faithfully yet talk behind the backs of others. Backbiting is a sin in the Bible did you know that? So when you talk about your co-worker when they are not present, you sin...

Christianity is public in that one expresses their faith by living in a manner conducive to the demonstration of the difference that knowing Christ has made in their life. It is private in that one looks at the issues and asks themselves, "How does this affect me and my life?"

Mature Christians look at the issues. Are they perfect? No. Hardly ever. But the difference is that they are willing to look at their actions and correct them (if wrong) rather than trying to justify them. In some aspects it's a progressive walk through life.