What do you think of Purgatory?

[joelr]

"Bought it" is exactly the point. People paid a lot to get their relatives prayed into heaven.

Look at the magnificent churches and chapels in Rome and ask yourself where it all came from.

Yes that did happen later when the RCC was founded in the 12th century.

 

[1213]

I agree with that. So...when someone dies, where do they go?
What is your vision on Christian soteriology?

Because of the following scriptures, I believe if person is righteous, he goes to "Abraham’s bosom" (Paradise), or to "Hades" to wait final judgment. And when the final judgement day comes, all of the are raised and the people in Hades go to hell and rest to the eternal life.

“Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, living in luxury every day. A certain beggar, named Lazarus, was laid at his gate, full of sores, and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Yes, even the dogs came and licked his sores. It happened that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. In Hades, he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off, and Lazarus at his bosom. He cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame.’ “But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in like manner, bad things. But now here he is comforted and you are in anguish. Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ “He said, ‘I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house; for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won’t also come into this place of torment.’ “But Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ “He said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.’”
Luke 16:19-31

Jesus said to him, “Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
Luke 23:43

...The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15

And eternal life is for those who are righteous:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

 

[Estro Felino]

Because of the following scriptures, I believe if person is righteous, he goes to "Abraham’s bosom" (Paradise), or to "Hades" to wait final judgment. And when the final judgement day comes, all of the are raised and the people in Hades go to hell and rest to the eternal life.

“Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, living in luxury every day. A certain beggar, named Lazarus, was laid at his gate, full of sores, and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Yes, even the dogs came and licked his sores. It happened that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. In Hades, he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off, and Lazarus at his bosom. He cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame.’ “But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in like manner, bad things. But now here he is comforted and you are in anguish. Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ “He said, ‘I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house; for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won’t also come into this place of torment.’ “But Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ “He said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.’”
Luke 16:19-31

Jesus said to him, “Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
Luke 23:43

...The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15

And eternal life is for those who are righteous:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Yes, very interesting. @joelr @1213
But that doesn't answer my question: "Are sins all equal in the eyes of God"?
Or there are graver sins?

 

[metis]

"Are sins all equal in the eyes of God"?
Or there are graver sins?

Logically, all sins cannot be equal as there are different penalties cited.

 

[Estro Felino]

Logically, all sins cannot be equal as there are different penalties cited.

Could you elaborate?

 

[metis]

Could you elaborate?

In the Tanakh, different violations of the Law deemed different possible penalties. In the Gospels, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is called an unforgivable sin.

 

[Estro Felino]

In the Tanakh, different violations of the Law deemed different possible penalties. In the Gospels, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is called an unforgivable sin.

Interesting. So in the Ancient Testament, how does the afterlife work?

 

[metis]

Interesting. So in the Ancient Testament, how does the afterlife work?

It's unclear, but in the Book of Job there is a strong hint that there is one, and this is reinforced by some other verses in other books in the Tanakh.

 

[Kenny]

This question is addressed to Christians, particularly.
I am curious about the other people's stance, though.
So anyone can express their opinion on what Purgatory is.

Purgatory - Wikipedia

You can express your global vision on soteriology, as well. I would appreciate it, if you did.
Thank you in advance.

In my view, purgatory negates the work of the Cross and the atoning legality that it accomplished.

Additionally, I don't find a substantive support in the scriptures that I read.

Short, but plain?

 

[Bird123]

That's not what the Catholic doctrine entails...I am sorry.
Just let me tell you that in Dante's Divine Comedy, several Non-Christians are in Paradise, whereas countless Christians are in Hell.
So I guess your point about followers vs non-followers, is wrong.

This wasn't about who is going to Hell. This was about keeping the followers. Religions can not exist without followers.

In reality, Hell does not exist. On the other hand, some might feel the lessons they have chosen for themselves might seem like Hell.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[muhammad_isa]

In reality, Hell does not exist..

Maybe not for you..
..my experience is different.

..and I understand that in the life hereafter, it could be much worse!

 

[Bird123]

Maybe not for you..
..my experience is different.

..and I understand that in the life hereafter, it could be much worse!

It really doesn't matter what one believes. It's about what Is!! God doesn't fry the kids. What is more important are the choices we make. Our choices show God and the world what we know and what we need to learn. Our lessons are based upon our choices.

On the road to learning how to create a Heavenly state for ourselves and others, it comes down to Unconditional Love. Unconditional Love is what will return the best results. Still, one has the freedom to choose anything and God will return it back so that one can discover what one's actions really mean.

The freedom to choose what one wants to learn is a part of God's great system in place. This time-based causal universe is Perfect for doing just that.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Dogknox20]

I'm non-christian, and I think of any form of post-mortem punishment by a creator type God that makes us a certain way and places us in a certain environment then punishes us for being the way we are made is ridiculous and unjust.

In my opinion.

danieldemol God is Love! All who refuse to love are the children of Satan!

The end time Judgement!
The Sheep and the Goats
Matthew 25:37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
...
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty, and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Dogknox20]

Maybe not for you..
..my experience is different.

..and I understand that in the life hereafter, it could be much worse!

.
muhammad_isa The God of the Christian is a Loving God.. He calls us his children!
He loves us so much he died for us he took our place in death on the cross! Jesus freely died in our place!!

The Anti-Christ is Anti-Christian because Christians have the truth Satan attacks the Christian! Christians are "Christ Followers"! Christians use the Cross as their symbol! The cross is a symbol of love. We look at the cross and are reminder of how mush God loves us "His Children"!
Matthew 5/4 He said:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Maybe not for you..
..my experience is different.

I can relate because my life was once a living hell too, and I was a devout Christian for thirty years and a sincere believer in God years before that. While I can't speak for other former Christians, I can honestly say that my mental health and emotional well-being greatly improved after I disavowed my Christian faith and belief in God. Grant it, it took some time for me to free myself from the Christian indoctrination I had been subjected to throughout my life, but my difficult spiritual journey from Christianity to Wicca was well worth it. I was miserable as a Christian, but now I'm fulfilled and content in my life as a Wiccan and spiritualist. I'm sharing my experience with you because I think that you could use some reassurance right now. My inbox is always open if you would like to talk further.

..and I understand that in the life hereafter, it could be much worse!

I won't go into a lengthy explanation in this post about what I believe concerning death and the afterlife, but I would like to say that I don't believe that the afterlife is something to be feared, nor do I believe that it will be as some Abrahamic theists (mostly Christians) believe it will be, which is often based on their religious beliefs. I have a different perspective on the afterlife than most Christians and other Abrahamic theists (see here if you're curious). I say most because some Christians and other theists are spiritualists, as I am.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This question is addressed to Christians, particularly.
I am curious about the other people's stance, though.
So anyone can express their opinion on what Purgatory is.

Purgatory - Wikipedia

You can express your global vision on soteriology, as well. I would appreciate it, if you did.
Thank you in advance.

Well, I'm Catholic so I accept it. But regardless of that, I believe that there is definitely a place of purification and I actually think that most of us end up there. I only think the most obstinately wicked end up in hell, personally. I also don't believe in reincarnation (I saw that brought up.)

 

[Trailblazer]

..and I understand that in the life hereafter, it could be much worse!

As I understand it, life in the hereafter could be much worse for people who are attached to the things of this world because in the next life people won't be able to reach for the things - food, drink, sex - that they reach for here that make them happy, and that will be hell for them.

 

[Trailblazer]

It really doesn't matter what one believes. It's about what Is!! God doesn't fry the kids. What is more important are the choices we make.

That is correct. God does not 'send' people to hell.
People send themselves to hell by being attached to the worldly things that will no longer be available to them in the next world... Hell is desiring what you can never have again.

 

[Estro Felino]

In my view, purgatory negates the work of the Cross and the atoning legality that it accomplished.

Additionally, I don't find a substantive support in the scriptures that I read.

Short, but plain?

Yes, but I would like to understand what leads to Heaven and what leads to Hell, according to the Scriptures and your views.

 

[danieldemol]

danieldemol God is Love! All who refuse to love are the children of Satan!

I disagree, Satan did not impregnate their mothers. If they are created then Satan did not create them.

The end time Judgement!
The Sheep and the Goats
Matthew 25:37

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
...
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty, and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Those who were not loving were simply acting in accordance with their (allegedly created) nature and environmental influences (environments which God allegedly placed them in). It is interesting that you would judge the more naturally vile of God's creations as unworthy of salvation but not judge your God who (allegedlly) gave them their natures and set them in their environments.

In my opinion.