What do you think of Purgatory?

[URAVIP2ME]

I think the consequences if more about physical consequences than spiritual

Very interesting reply ^ above ^ because it made me think of King David.
His sin with Bath-Sheba was forgiven (spiritual) but he suffered physical consequences, including with Solomon, etc.
Good to know King David, in No purgatory, but still sleeping soundly in the grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
Sleeping until Jesus awakens (resurrects) the sleeping dead from death's deep unconscious sleep.
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14
What JOY Resurrection Day (Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day) will be and to meet people like David.

 

[rational experiences]

Humans living are humans.

In science terms medical a human is living in biology to be termed a human. Legal. Human rights.

A human in science thinks yet says I know why living humans are suffering various mind conditions body sacrificed conditions.

I name it held human purgatory. As human sex is an act of the gain of sin. Poor innocent humans sent into a hell caused life human living historic attack.

Held now in DNA in a changed human bio suffering. Not actually purgatory...just a themed thought.

It wont heal until 2012 sun mass block out by clouds above. After a million years of living DNA mutated. My themed theist reviews life was put into purgatory.

From and by beast terms an inherited monkey human body type.

Theists today using old medical science advice now are quite prepared to change heavens above to re Inherit small human population and any monkey human mutations.

As they study monkey giving it bio mutations which humans Inherit.

Science occult plus medical claim in science is a human began their human bio life cell as a monkey mutant human.

Want our bio heavens cell block beginnings to alter heavens into a non human bio cell support and just electricity.

As machines and not humans should have mechanical life.

So humans in purgatory is a nasty minded human thesis who proved they said it was deserved. Is contemplating destroying now by the use a theme replacing bio life with monkey humans instead.

As new science is always one extra evil minus than the last science thesis.

Oh holy religious humans sciences.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hell does not exist.

No, not as a geographical location, but it does exist as a state of mind in this life and as a state of the soul in the afterlife.

 

[danieldemol]

.
danieldemol I hope all is well... Satan does NOT create them they Choose NOT to love! They reject God.... God is LOVE! Satan cannot love he has already been judged; all he can do is hate!

Man is made with free will this is the freedom to choose; Love or not to love! God is Love man is made in the image of God! Dogs cats, snails, cows, frogs etc cannot love but they also cannot sin!

Thanks, I hope all is well with you also.
Can you explain why a dog has no capacity for love?
My personal experience has been that dogs are more loving than many humans.

In my opinion.

 

[Trailblazer]

My personal experience has been that dogs are more loving than many humans.

Cats are too.

 

[Estro Felino]

Thanks, I hope all is well with you also.
Can you explain why a dog has no capacity for love?
My personal experience has been that dogs are more loving than many humans.

In my opinion.

Animals have an identical capability of loving, to the human one.
They just lack self-awareness.

 

[Estro Felino]

John 16:
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

In our scriptures, Jesus expressed it this way:

His Holy Spirit is constantly expressing three point, sin, righteousness and judgment and then Jesus explains each point:

1. The only sin that is the dividing line is whether or not one has believed on Jesus Christ. It isn't the litany of what we have done wrong, doing wrong or going to do wrong. Rather it is the simply the sin on not believing on him.
   1. Why? Because the totality of all sin was paid for on the Cross.
   2. We all have heard that there is "no double jeopardy clause". In that God has judged our sins as "no guilty" by virtue of the Cross, the sins no longer are charged to our offense.
   3. The sin that we have not been declared "not guilty" is the sin of not believing on Jesus
2. Of righteousness, because Jesus went to the Father and the Father said "justice is satisfied" - my creation is now reconciled to me. (Again, we can reject the righteousness if we so choose)
3. And judgment. The real judgement is not against man but against the prince of this world. When we don't believe on Jesus, we are guilty by association and receive the judgment that was reserved for the prince of this world. Like a murderer who pulls the trigger but the other person who drove the car is guilty by association.

At least in my understanding.

I deeply respect this vision
But I have chosen, with my own free will to believe in a God that saves loving and good atheists and rejects loveless Christians. Revelation 3:15
It's not a matter of sin, ultimately. It's a matter of Love.
Also because Jesus said the sinful woman's sins were forgiven because she has loved so much.
Luke 7:47

 

[joelr]

Philosophically speaking, many atheist thinkers have highlighted that human condition is not "fun", actually.

A bit off of the questions I posed but there is a vast amount of philosophy. Many are secular but give purpose to life. Nietzsche has existentialism which is to give ones life purpose in the face of randomness. Schopenhauer is considered a pessimist but he actually has ideas about giving meaning to life and is very uplifting. HE also gets into ethics but is very critical of Christianity and sacrifice.

Human condition is light years away different than animals' condition, because humans have self-awareness, whereas animals eat, mate, breed, and then die.
Whenever a person gets old and is falling apart, was his life worthy? Did he live his life to make children only? To reproduce only, as animals live their own existence?
Children who will repeat the same human cycle as their parents.

Animals have self awareness. This has been proven in experiments. Some animals recognize themselves in mirrors for one.
The only reason we seem so different from other animals is because. the many hominid species that led to homo sapien are now gone. If we could see each species starting with the first hominid who was basically a chimp who walked more than climbed and all the others as brain size grew, they lost body hair, developed tools, language and so on it would make more sense.
Our direct ancestor Homo Heidlebergensis was very human like. However many humans live, reproduce, work and die as well, without much thought about philosophy, worth and any deeper thought.

Christians' God is a God that has never wanted humans to remain "human". But to cross the line of caducity.

That God like all others is a story people made up. The theologians in the early centuries developed Yahweh by combining Greek ideas. Doesn't make it any more real?
The Platonic "the One" that originally used some of these concepts wasn't any more real than the God Origen used to combine it with.

This lecture covers it nicely. By a Pastor oddly enough? I hear historians talk about it often but not usually church people?

 

[Kenny]

I deeply respect this vision
But I have chosen, with my own free will to believe in a God that saves loving and good atheists and rejects loveless Christians. Revelation 3:15
It's not a matter of sin, ultimately. It's a matter of Love.
Also because Jesus said the sinful woman's sins were forgiven because she has loved so much.
Luke 7:47

Of course, I am not the judge and I always leave myself room to be wrong

On the love part: 1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. So maybe they do know him? - so I leave the "ultimate decision" to God.

Adding a side note, I rather be on the "for sure" side than see if I "love enough". So accepting Jesus (as per my signature) is a "for sure and no doubt" position.

On the "good" side, whether atheist or any other person, that goes back to works. If we are going to put "goodness" on a scale, we would also have to weigh "bad" on the other side of the scale and then we would have to know how good, good has to be.

When we use God's goodness as the plumb line, then man's goodness ends up being:

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:


And, thus, the woman "who loved", though she was a sinful woman, didn't matter. Her goodness wasn't the issue. Love, that covers a multitude of sins, was the issue. God's goodness and mercy is greater than goodness because it is paid for. As it is written, mercy rejoices over judgment.

So, yes, love is the answer and Christian who do not love, don't know God.

I think the real question is, "Is the person who says they are Christians but do not love, really Christians? " Or in name only! and thus, Matt 25: 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Knowing Jesus is knowing love.

 

[Kenny]

Very interesting reply ^ above ^ because it made me think of King David.
His sin with Bath-Sheba was forgiven (spiritual) but he suffered physical consequences, including with Solomon, etc.
Good to know King David, in No purgatory, but still sleeping soundly in the grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
Sleeping until Jesus awakens (resurrects) the sleeping dead from death's deep unconscious sleep.
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14
What JOY Resurrection Day (Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day) will be and to meet people like David.

A very good example!

 

[1213]

I am not getting what you're getting at, forgive me.
So you mean to say that there are people predestined to salvation from birth...
and people predestined to damnation from birth?

Sorry, if it was not clear. My point was to say that all sinful actions are equal in that they tell the person is sinful. I think all righteous people are predestined to eternal life, but that who becomes righteous is not. All have chance to become righteous.

 

[Estro Felino]

Sorry, if it was not clear. My point was to say that all sinful actions are equal in that they tell the person is sinful. I think all righteous people are predestined to eternal life, but that who becomes righteous is not. All have chance to become righteous.

Thank you. I get it now.

 

[Estro Felino]

Of course, I am not the judge and I always leave myself room to be wrong

On the love part: 1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. So maybe they do know him? - so I leave the "ultimate decision" to God.

Adding a side note, I rather be on the "for sure" side than see if I "love enough". So accepting Jesus (as per my signature) is a "for sure and no doubt" position.

On the "good" side, whether atheist or any other person, that goes back to works. If we are going to put "goodness" on a scale, we would also have to weigh "bad" on the other side of the scale and then we would have to know how good, good has to be.

When we use God's goodness as the plumb line, then man's goodness ends up being:

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:


And, thus, the woman "who loved", though she was a sinful woman, didn't matter. Her goodness wasn't the issue. Love, that covers a multitude of sins, was the issue. God's goodness and mercy is greater than goodness because it is paid for. As it is written, mercy rejoices over judgment.

So, yes, love is the answer and Christian who do not love, don't know God.

I think the real question is, "Is the person who says they are Christians but do not love, really a Christians? " Or in name only! and thus, Matt 25: 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Knowing Jesus is knowing love.

A perfect explanation, thank you.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Animals have an identical capability of loving, to the human one.
They just lack self-awareness.

Many animals are clearly self aware. And recognise themselves and others.

 

[metis]

I think the consequences if more about physical consequences than spiritual

I believe it very much can affect both because we do tend to be creatures of habit. Not only can it affect me negatively, it also can affect others as well.

The word "sin" and its variations show up 414 times in the N.T., so if was all conquered by faith alone I certainly don't think it would show up that often. [click on link: Bible, Revised Standard Version (umich.edu) ] And the "once saved, always saved" concept is very dangerous as it may have the effect of having people let down their guard. I thought you agreed with me on that?

 

[metis]

Adding a side note, I rather be on the "for sure" side than see if I "love enough". So accepting Jesus (as per my signature) is a "for sure and no doubt" position.

I really don't think this is logical based on our experiences. Just because we may accept and have faith in Jesus and his message, that doesn't mean that we will not sin again. In the Parable of the Seed & Sower, it mentions those who may fall away from their faith. At one point, Paul tells his flock to try and help those who have fallen away to return to the faith.

Again, the "once saved, always saved" concept is very dangerous spiritually, and it can lull some into a false sense of security. IMO, the Boss will do the judging, so we should allow "Him" to make such decisions, not us.

 

[Kenny]

I believe it very much can affect both because we do tend to be creatures of habit. Not only can it affect me negatively, it also can affect others as well.

The word "sin" and its variations show up 414 times in the N.T., so if was all conquered by faith alone I certainly don't think it would show up that often. [click on link: Bible, Revised Standard Version (umich.edu) ] And the "once saved, always saved" concept is very dangerous as it may have the effect of having people let down their guard. I thought you agreed with me on that?

I do agree, but I think we are talking about two different applications.

Living out the gift of salvation is different than being saved from our sinful nature. There is a process to overcoming the sins we commit after salvation, but it no longer separates us from God's presence. We remain united with Him.

Does that mean "once saved always saved"? No. We run a great risk if we practice sin. Callousness of heart can lead to denial of Jesus and one can then loose salvation never to have it returned (In my understanding)

Looking above in ref to sin:

1. We won't completely overcome sin until we leave this body. But it no longer is the basis of the love relationship with God. His mercy is higher than the Heavens from the earth.
2. Yes, our sin affects other people and we should make restitution.
3. It does affect our spirituality but not our union with Christ for if it did there would be no remedy for humanity. (unless we are talking about Hebrews unpardonable sin),

 

[Kenny]

I really don't think this is logical based on our experiences. Just because we may accept and have faith in Jesus and his message, that doesn't mean that we will not sin again. In the Parable of the Seed & Sower, it mentions those who may fall away from their faith. At one point, Paul tells his flock to try and help those who have fallen away to return to the faith.

Again, the "once saved, always saved" concept is very dangerous spiritually, and it can lull some into a false sense of security. IMO, the Boss will do the judging, so we should allow "Him" to make such decisions, not us.

I think that the Sower and the Seed isn't about returning to faith. The sower and the seed is more about progression of the veracity of the word and its capacity. IMV

 

[URAVIP2ME]

........ My point was to say that all sinful actions are equal in that they tell the person is sinful. I think all righteous people are predestined to eternal life, but that who becomes righteous is not. All have chance to become righteous.

Yes, sinful actions are equal in the sense that all sin leads to death. Death is the total asking price tag for sin - Rom. 6:23,7
Sin is Not equal in the sense that sin is: either on purpose or not, deliberate or not, intentional or not, willful or not.

Yes, agree that ALL resurrected have the chance to become righteous because as Acts 24:15 says the coming resurrection includes both the righteous and unrighteous as being worthy of a resurrection.
(Only the wicked destroyed - Psalm 37:38; Psalm 92:7; Psalm 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22)
The righteous to choose to remain righteous and the unrighteous to then choose to become righteous and remain righteous.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Animals have an identical capability of loving, to the human one. They just lack self-awareness.

Animals do Not have a conscience as humans do.
We don't find one dog apologizing for taking another dog's bone.