What does demon possession mean to you?

[Dan From Smithville]

We have zero compelling evidence of this.

I already accept that memes or ideas can originate in a person or people and persist in a population. But I have no reason to conclude that demons are memes, though it is an interesting idea. I have no reason to conclude that demons exist in any capacity outside of the idea of them. Descriptions of demons and their abilities extends beyond what an idea can do, as demons are described to exist outside of a host and be some sort of entity. Selecting a personal definition of demon, given by an historical figure, at the exclusion of all other definitions, with no valid explanation for the exclusion, except that particular definition fits the definition of a meme, does not make a very compelling argument.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

They control people the same way culture controls people. They are memes, in fact they are highly evolved and highly contagious memeplexes, they are clusters of memetic and psychological information. I described what they are in post #135

You are saying that, but you have not established that the two are one. Culture is a dynamic process involving people that are independent agents and not all follow culture rigidly and are at the mercy of ideas.

I read a book some years ago that argued about memes in much the same way that you are arguing it. I forget the name of the book and the author. It was interesting and there may be some validity to it, but that is a long way from establishing that demons are memes.

I wish I could remember the name of that book.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Fear isn't contagious?

Not for everyone.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

They control people the same way culture controls people. They are memes, in fact they are highly evolved and highly contagious memeplexes, they are clusters of memetic and psychological information. I described what they are in post #135

Two things that share some similarities is not sufficient evidence to conclude that the two things are the same thing.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

They control people the same way culture controls people. They are memes, in fact they are highly evolved and highly contagious memeplexes, they are clusters of memetic and psychological information. I described what they are in post #135

Gene Simmons and I have tongues, we have both performed in front of large groups of people, both been in bands, we both have had sex with hot women, we both have two legs, two arms and a head. I must be Gene Simmons. But I am not Gene Simmons. I am David Lee Roth.

Being similar to a biased definition of a demon (Gene plays the demon by the way) is insufficient evidence to conclude that demons are memes.

 

[Unguru]

Too much cocaine

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No, they don't possess people bodily and they possess more than one person at time because they are highly contagious. Think of them as being like a virus but a mind virus

I rather like your idea, but I am not convinced that demons are memes. Could it be that memes may be another phenomenon that has been confused for demons, much as some mental illness, and not that demons are actually memes?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Too much cocaine

Eric Clapton.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Too much cocaine

Or maybe ZZ Top under pressure.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Not for everyone.

Is a virus contagious for everyone or are some resistant and have immunity?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Is a virus contagious for everyone or are some resistant and have immunity?

Some are resistant, but the limitations of viral infectivity is not evidence that demons are memes. It is another similarity to memes, to be sure, but similarity alone, in this instance, remains insufficient to draw the conclusion that demons are memes.

Actual viruses are not memes either, even if they possess similarities. Viruses are physical manifestations of biological molecules that have been characterized and exist outside of their hosts.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Is a virus contagious for everyone or are some resistant and have immunity?

Is rust contagious in iron? Is rust a meme? Is it a demon? Iron oxide does not exist without iron, just as in your definition of demon, where they do not exist without a person.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

I rather like your idea, but I am not convinced that demons are memes. Could it be that memes may be another phenomenon that has been confused for demons, much as some mental illness, and not that demons are actually memes?

I don't believe demonic possession is mental illness but as been confused as such. I think that what the ancients called demons were probably what we now call memeplexes. I mean look at Augustine, when he was describing demons he was describing something viral way before the field of virology even existed, even before people knew viruses existed

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Is a virus contagious for everyone or are some resistant and have immunity?

Incidentally, immunity and resistance are not the same thing, but I understood what you were going for. Just thought I would mention it. I spent a lot of money learning things like that and I have to do something with it.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don't believe demonic possession is mental illness but as been confused as such. I think that what the ancients called demons were probably what we now call memeplexes. I mean look at Augustine, when he was describing demons he was describing something viral way before the field of virology even existed, even before people knew viruses existed

What if what Augustine was describing is a virus? A real virus. Have you given any consideration to that? It would fit all the points you have made. It could be confused with what was called demonic possession. Going from person to person. Maybe some people got over it and developed an immunity. This would fit the description of the demon not existing until it was in a person and then disappearing when they were no longer possessed, i.e. they got better.

The definition of a demon is not the only definition of demon that exists. His was an interpretation of existing descriptions and ideas of his time. Maybe he was just repeating a meme and not providing a valid description of a demon.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don't believe demonic possession is mental illness but as been confused as such. I think that what the ancients called demons were probably what we now call memeplexes. I mean look at Augustine, when he was describing demons he was describing something viral way before the field of virology even existed, even before people knew viruses existed

I do not believe it is mental illness either. I think that mental illness was not recognized as an illness among the general population of ancient times due to ignorance and that imaginations came up with demons to provide some reason for it. Maybe mental illness lead to the creation of the meme.

 

[Deeje]

I'd love you to really think about that. Demons have power over people, but Jesus has power over demons? So when possession happens, Jesus is just busy with other matters (or maybe relaxing in the heavenly sauna)? And what did the pigs do to deserve that fate, by the way?

There is really no point trying to explain anything to someone who has not desire to understand anyway.

There is a very good reason why God does not intervene to prevent anything bad from happening in this world. To do so would be to prop up the devil's side of the issue. At the end of the day, we are all going to be caught in the act of being ourselves...either upholding God sovereignty and his laws....or not.

The pigs were in all probability going to be killed and eaten anyway. According to God’s law swine were unclean animals, and not only were the Israelites forbidden to eat their flesh or to use them for sacrifices but even to touch the carcasses of swine made a Jew unclean. For them to raise swine was therefore a flagrant disregard of God’s law. Since they had no business raising swine even for commercial purposes they could well consider this destruction of their herd as a just rebuke.

Also, it might be reasonably argued that one man is worth more than a herd of swine, especially since swine were supposed to have no commercial value among the Jews. So no fault can be found with Jesus’ permitting the demons to enter into the swine.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don't believe demonic possession is mental illness but as been confused as such. I think that what the ancients called demons were probably what we now call memeplexes. I mean look at Augustine, when he was describing demons he was describing something viral way before the field of virology even existed, even before people knew viruses existed

Something I just read does make me reconsider the idea that memes can control people.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don't believe demonic possession is mental illness but as been confused as such. I think that what the ancients called demons were probably what we now call memeplexes. I mean look at Augustine, when he was describing demons he was describing something viral way before the field of virology even existed, even before people knew viruses existed

At least some people. Some people seem very susceptible to the most outlandish ideas.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

I do not believe it is mental illness either. I think that mental illness was not recognized as an illness among the general population of ancient times due to ignorance and that imaginations came up with demons to provide some reason for it. Maybe mental illness lead to the creation of the meme.

And I am not arguing that these memes which I am calling demonic are supernatural independent entities if that is what you are taking issue with. I am arguing the opposite, I don't believe they are supernatural, have any independent existence outside the human mind or are even intelligent