What does demon possession mean to you?

[Shadow Wolf]

It is weird to see stone age ideas like that persisting in a world where we can talk to people on the other side of the planet as if they were in the room with us.

It really is. The idea is so ancient, so crude and primitive, yet it lingers on despite the utter lack of evidence. And it seems few are willing to ask if demons are really that powerful, why are they so weak against medications? Give anyone and everyone you believe to be possessed a dose of general anesthetic. It will be nighty-night for Mr. or Mrs. Demon.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I kind of feel like getting back in ghost busting. And the whole practice can be odd, really, how the search for positive evidence of the existence of spirits, ESP, telepathy, and so on, can hone one's sense of critical observation and examination, to the point the hunt naturally on it's own goes from looking for evidence to prove from gathering evidence to dismiss. But, that's really only if you're honest about your findings, because stairways to hell, satanic churches, haunted forests, raging spirits living by a bridge or train crossing, I don't know how many times I've illegally trespassed wanting to find a shard of evidence for all that stuff only to discover the hellhounds who guard a graveyard are the real dogs of the real groundskeeper. Spirits glowing in the forest? That turned out to be phosphorous. Screams of murdered girls where nothing more than bats and owls. Satanic graves deep in the woods, they are no where to be found (and the stories heavily conflict with history of the land and knowledge of the area the locals possess).

 

[74x12]

Welcome to the club then.

Demonic possession is a lot of nonsense that some people cling to. I know what I am talking about.

Keep telling yourself that.

You believe something you have no way to demonstrate to be true. Most of this exists in your own mind as a truth, but that is due to the circularity of your own belief reinforcing a demand that what you see be what you want it to be. I can accept that you believe, but then you go and decide to take actions to make the world fit what you believe. The rest of us that think demons and the devil are metaphors for our own evil don't see your demands as acceptable. I believe things too, but I don't try to make the world fit my beliefs. Why is that so difficult for other people.

I don't need to demonstrate it. I'll leave it to the entities themselves to demonstrate. Which they do. And I could careless what you think. As for what exists in my mind as truth. You don't know. And stop pretending you are standing on some kind of pedestal of infallibility. Whatever anyone thinks is true exists in their mind as "a truth". You're not exempt. As for reinforcing circularity. You're the obvious master of pi.

I don't worry about making the world fit my beliefs. It already does fit, nicely.

I really doubt that you have reviewed the arguments and evidence that have debunked these things. You just scoffed it off, because it was against what you have long believed without question.

And I doubt you are even capable of objectivity or looking at this topic with actual intellectual honesty. In fact, I've wasted enough time on you.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Fear isn't a demon but a very explainable physiological response.

I don't think he is arguing that actual supernatural demons exist, but that there are rational explanations for the phenomena and he has an idea that, at least one, may be the perpetuation of memes in culture.

What you say about the biological explanation for emotions like fear is the best explanation we have right now and the one that I agree with. But it is clear the existence of that emotion is stoked and manipulated by people to achieve whatever ends they are engaging manipulation to achieve. This fear can be manipulated without conscious intent too, in the form of the mass or group hysteria that you previously described.

Personally, I think it is a combination of ignorance, fear and the need to find causes for things we fear that are external to ourselves so that we remain blameless victims rather than active participants. Then you get division and dissent between the blameless victims of life against those that would rather actively participate in it.

Demons and demon possession were probably mistakenly applied to many conditions that have other, better explanations and evidence for support. Mental illness, memes, individual behavior outside the group norm are probably some of the primary actual events in play that are claimed to be demons.

I am not sure how widespread the practice was, but in some cultures, they use to drill or cut away part of the cranium in a practice known as trephination. It is speculated that in some cases, this may have worked at relieving pressure on the brain that was causing the strange behavior. Thus the demon was released. Skulls have been found with multiple holes that were cut over many years time. Releasing the demons is a long, painful process.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I kind of feel like getting back in ghost busting. And the whole practice can be odd, really, how the search for positive evidence of the existence of spirits, ESP, telepathy, and so on, can hone one's sense of critical observation and examination, to the point the hunt naturally on it's own goes from looking for evidence to prove from gathering evidence to dismiss. But, that's really only if you're honest about your findings, because stairways to hell, satanic churches, haunted forests, raging spirits living by a bridge or train crossing, I don't know how many times I've illegally trespassed wanting to find a shard of evidence for all that stuff only to discover the hellhounds who guard a graveyard are the real dogs of the real groundskeeper. Spirits glowing in the forest? That turned out to be phosphorous. Screams of murdered girls where nothing more than bats and owls. Satanic graves deep in the woods, they are no where to be found (and the stories heavily conflict with history of the land and knowledge of the area the locals possess).

The only evil I have any knowledge of and evidence for is the evil that is carried out by people. Considering the diversity, we do not need demons. Anything attributed to them pales in comparison to what people can come up with. Of course, true believers, just wave their hands and dismiss the evidence in favor of their favorite belief.

 

[74x12]

I know. The evidence is ignored. You have to be part of a special club to see it. People are being tricked by the very things they keep claiming have no evidence. Yada yada yada yada yada.

"Yada yada yada" Could have left the rest out of this post and it would be just as useful.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It really is. The idea is so ancient, so crude and primitive, yet it lingers on despite the utter lack of evidence. And it seems few are willing to ask if demons are really that powerful, why are they so weak against medications? Give anyone and everyone you believe to be possessed a dose of general anesthetic. It will be nighty-night for Mr. or Mrs. Demon.

These things get tied into larger belief systems. That keeps them alive in a lot of minds.

That is an interesting and excellent point. I had not thought of it. Apparently you can anesthetize demons.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

"Yada yada yada" Could have left the rest out of this post and it would be just as useful.

To you, but you are clearly in denial of rational ideas and evidence. To you, I imagine they are all yada, yada, yada.

 

[74x12]

My family swore up and down there was a "one footed ghost" haunting the garage because there are several outlines of a right foot on the concrete floor, but no left foot. That one was one of the harder ones for me to solve. After a few months of trying to figure out what's going on, I finally realized they are outlines of a foot, but not actual foot prints, they are all approximately around where cars are pulled in to work on them, and my brother, who strongly favors his right leg over his broken and shattered left leg, works on cars way more frequently than anyone else who uses the garage. So I put my shoed foot on top of the outlined foot, and sure enough it compared to mine the same way my brothers would if his shoes were available.
Give me enough time, I am confident I can explain any such "haunting" I am brought to. It usually doesn't take me long to find evidence to dismiss the presence of any and all supernatural beings. I'm also good at examining videos, audio, and photographs (raw footage and unedited).

again, you can easily find an endless stream of such cases that are explainable. That doesn't mean they all are.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

"Yada yada yada" Could have left the rest out of this post and it would be just as useful.

The explanations I offered in that post are all yada, yada, yada, that have been offered by true believers in demons and mental powers for why others do not see what they see.

You are correct. The answers are yada, yada, yada.

 

[74x12]

To you, but you are clearly in denial of rational ideas and evidence. To you, I imagine they are all yada, yada, yada.

I've wasted enough time on you. Clearly you won't see reason. Not this way.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

again, you can easily find an endless stream of such cases that are explainable. That doesn't mean they all are.

But you have no explanation why "your" explanation is the correct one and it is not something else. I understand. You do not get that. But it is a fact.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I've wasted enough time on you. Clearly you won't see reason. Not this way.

I have not seen reason from you. Just denial. You have offered nothing but continual claims and denials without support.

Why is the request for evidence and rational arguements something you find such an aversion too?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I've wasted enough time on you. Clearly you won't see reason. Not this way.

You should check out the other two prominent posters on this end of the thread. They have been in disagreement and offered evidence and reason for their positions. They didn't just keep denying the other and claiming they were right without benefit of providing that evidence and reasoning.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Here is a nice video of fear memes in action, some are fake obviously but some are actual memetic infections at work. Number 9 is a classic.

Here is another video of a memetic infection at work:

It happens, quit being in denial about it.

 

[74x12]

You should check out the other two prominent posters on this end of the thread. They have been in disagreement and offered evidence and reason for their positions. They didn't just keep denying the other and claiming they were right without benefit of providing that evidence and reasoning.

It's good enough for me to know. I don't need to try to convince you. Some people will never see the obvious. I suspect it's just the way some people are wired. I would waste my time.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It's good enough for me to know. I don't need to try to convince you. Some people will never see the obvious. I suspect it's just the way some people are wired. I would waste my time.

This is always the answer. It is obvious. That makes no sense. If it were obvious, there would not be any disagreement from me. It is not obvious. There is no evidence. You are not using logic, but you may be right, it is probably a difference in wiring. I doubt any evidence would be enough to convince you once you have set your mind to believing something is true.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It's good enough for me to know. I don't need to try to convince you. Some people will never see the obvious. I suspect it's just the way some people are wired. I would waste my time.

You do not know. If you knew, then you could share what you know and the evidence that supports that knowing.

You believe.

There is a difference.

Do you know how many erroneous things there are that people believe? Volumes upon volumes.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It's good enough for me to know. I don't need to try to convince you. Some people will never see the obvious. I suspect it's just the way some people are wired. I would waste my time.

Do you know what a harvestman or daddy longlegs is? They are common arachnids found all over the US. You know. Related to spiders, ticks and mites.

People know that these things have incredible venom that could kill many people with one bite, except that the harvestman's fangs are too small and weak to penetrate human skin. These things would be among the deadliest creatures known except for that.

It is all myth. Folklore. It is completely untrue. No one knows this. Some believe it. The harvestman has no venom glands and does not produce a venom.

This is the reality of what you think you know and what you really know.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That is an interesting and excellent point. I had not thought of it. Apparently you can anesthetize demons.

Mood balances, anti-convulsants, and anti-psychotics also tend to still, calm, and silence them.