What does demon possession mean to you?

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, that is Satan that runs large corporations and big money. Satan runs the government and pharmaceutical companies with big money. It all goes back to fluoride in the water.

We probably would be better off if the devil and demons possessed corporate executives. At least Satan would think in long-term insights and goals, rather than reckless abandon for a short life that has human CEOs not really caring if their customer base gets sick or dies. Satan needs us alive and healthy so he can make more money, get more power, and draw more of us into his ranks.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Well, that is Satan that runs large corporations and big money. Satan runs the government and pharmaceutical companies with big money. It all goes back to fluoride in the water.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

We probably would be better off if the devil and demons possessed corporate executives. At least Satan would think in long-term insights and goals, rather than reckless abandon for a short life that has human CEOs not really caring if their customer base gets sick or dies. Satan needs us alive and healthy so he can make more money, get more power, and draw more of us into his ranks.

I think that is what some on here believe. That Satan is the CEO of CEO's. And Presidents, Kings, Queens, Prime Ministers, etc. But you have a point. If there were some overall guidance to the long term action of large organizations, and it included the shape of the planet, the people on it and conserving resources, that would be great.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

View attachment 31305

We are not alone. Except others may believe what is made up. There own stuff and others.

 

[Audie]

I think that is what some on here believe. That Satan is the CEO of CEO's. And Presidents, Kings, Queens, Prime Ministers, etc. But you have a point. If there were some overall guidance to the long term action of large organizations, and it included the shape of the planet, the people on it and conserving resources, that would be great.

Satan, for the benevolent dictator. Terrif.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Satan, for the benevolent dictator. Terrif.

I do not consider Satan to be an actual entity. Satan is a metaphor and a scapegoat for human evil.

I was thinking more of a set of shared guiding principles or philosophies that would achieve a more benevolent and thoughtful use of resources.

It is pie in the sky, but I am not pushing for it. Merely speculating.

 

[Audie]

I do not consider Satan to be an actual entity. Satan is a metaphor and a scapegoat for human evil.

I was thinking more of a set of shared guiding principles or philosophies that would achieve a more benevolent and thoughtful use of resources.

It is pie in the sky, but I am not pushing for it. Merely speculating.

I see human society as building toward a terrible
crescendo.
IF people survive the next 100 years, we may
be in good shape for the next 10,000, and who
knows. Fifty thousand, twenty million. Why not.

But they will look back at the 20th and 21st centuries
and say, "WHAT a bunch of aholes."

I do when optimistic think that in some distant time
people will figure out what they are and how to live.

Consumer -driven / resource extraction wont be it.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I see human society as building toward a terrible
crescendo.
IF people survive the next 100 years, we may
be in good shape for the next 10,000, and who
knows. Fifty thousand, twenty million. Why not.

But they will look back at the 20th and 21st centuries
and say, "WHAT a bunch of aholes."

I do when optimistic think that in some distant time
people will figure out what they are and how to live.

Consumer -driven / resource extraction wont be it.

I have mixed feelings on it. We have the potential for greatness, but our fears, ignorance and desires hold us back.

Some of us would rather build castles in the sky than something on the ground.

 

[Deeje]

The biblical Noah and the Gilgamesh myth

I think what is getting muddled here is the timing of the event and the actual recording of it.
Not sure of your source, but I believe that it's incorrect.

Gilgamesh is just one of many accounts of a global flood found in Asia, the islands of the South Pacific, North America, Central America, and South America which all have tales of what must have been a catastrophic event. The many Flood legends existed long before these people were exposed to the Bible. Yet, the legends have many points in common with the Biblical account of the Deluge.

According to The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: “The universality of the flood accounts is usually taken as evidence for the universal destruction of humanity by a flood . . . Moreover, some of the ancient accounts were written by people very much in opposition to the Hebrew-Christian tradition.” (Volume 2, page 319)

Biblical geanealogy puts the flood at around 2370 BCE. Moses did not record the Genesis account till 1513 BCE.

God confused the languages because they were building a tower to the heavens. We have went beyond the heavens and into outer space. No one received any sort of divine punishment and the plans were not thwarted.

Oh, now I see what you mean......actually their building a tower with its top in the heavens, according to tradition, may have been a way to defeat God should he ever try to flood the world again. They could climb to the top of their tower to escape his punishment, which sounds feasible, given their knowledge at the time.

Going into outer space wasn't really in their thoughts because they had no idea of what was out there, or even where God was. Heaven would have been a very obscure concept. All they had was an amazing story told by Noah and his family. Human embellishment did the rest.

The second rebellion occurred when Nimrod (Noah's great grandson) put himself forward as the world's first political figure....a leader among men, (also made into a deity after his death) but he led them in a completely opposite direction to what God had commanded. Confusing their language thwarted their plans to build a united empire under Nimrod's leadership, but they took all his ideas with them as well as the flood legend, which is why it is seen in so many cultures that have nothing to do with Judaism or Christianity. Since there was no communication between these cultures when the flood story became part of their mythology, the Bible's account makes sense.

Another factor to consider was the dimensions of the ark itself. The Bible describes a vessel about 437 feet long, with a length-to-height ratio of 10 to 1 and a length-to-width ratio of 6 to 1. (Genesis 6:15) Remember that Noah was no shipbuilder and this was more than 4,000 years ago! Yet, the ark was built with proportions that were ideal for its function as a floating container. It was actually a box, not a ship with a bow and stern. But modern naval architects have found similar ratios suitable for structural integrity and stability on the open seas. Could that be just a coincidence?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The biblical Noah and the Gilgamesh myth


God confused the languages because they were building a tower to the heavens. We have went beyond the heavens and into outer space. No one received any sort of divine punishment and the plans were not thwarted.

As you are probably aware, but others are confused--purposefully or out of ignorance--the writers of Genesis copied the story of Gilgamesh and turned it into a monotheistic tale.

The similarity of flood stories found in different cultures is the result of cultural contamination with the Gilgamesh/Genesis story as the basis of the contamination from dissemination along trade routes.

Other cultures in other countries have flood stories, but these are of local flooding or completely different stories. Some cultures and places have no flood myths or non that are comparable to the Gilgamesh/Genesis story.

Requiring that Christians believe the story of Noah is an historical account or reports and historical event is a demand of fundamentalists and has no biblical backing. Perhaps the Devil makes them demand that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Perhaps the Devil makes them demand that.

I am starting to think that tons of Christians in the MidWest bloody hate Jesus. They can be cruel, mean, and calloused and cold towards the lest among them, which is, according to Jesus, how they treat him. No one in history has held more hatred and contempt for the man than those Heartland Bible Thumping Christians.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh, now I see what you mean......actually their building a tower with its top in the heavens, according to tradition, may have been a way to defeat God should he ever try to flood the world again. They could climb to the top of their tower to escape his punishment, which sounds feasible, given their knowledge at the time.

No it doesn't, because God promised to never do it again and placed the rainbow in the sky. Plus that is purely speculation and has no basis in scripture.

Biblical geanealogy puts the flood at around 2370 BCE.

That view isn't universally held, and it would still put Gilgamesh centuries before.

Yet, the ark was built with proportions that were ideal for its function as a floating container.

There are no mentions of it having a rudder. And that much water rapidly appearing over the course of 40 days, it would have created a maelstrom of an ocean. A boat that can't steer itself is doomed in those conditions as massive waves toss it about and roll it.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

I do not consider Satan to be an actual entity. Satan is a metaphor and a scapegoat for human evil.

I was thinking more of a set of shared guiding principles or philosophies that would achieve a more benevolent and thoughtful use of resources.

It is pie in the sky, but I am not pushing for it. Merely speculating.

Are you familiar with the concept of archetypes?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Interesting questions and ideas!:

I never could understand the point of having demons in the first place. What purpose do they serve in the Grand Design?

They were angels, who became rebellious (Genesis 6:1-4; Jude 1:6-7), like Satan did. Revelation 12:12

You'd think that they'd try to play it cool

They do, for the most part...if they did reveal themselves, they might scare people into searching for the True God. The last thing they want!

possess someone famous or powerful - and try to act like that person, while subtly shaping the course of human events.

No doubt they have and do...they're just 'playing it cool'. Revelation 12:9

 

[Deeje]

No it doesn't, because God promised to never do it again and placed the rainbow in the sky. Plus that is purely speculation and has no basis in scripture.

Since there was no concept of 'outer space' back then, your own speculation doesn't hold water either.
I said it was tradition, not Biblical fact. The Bible does not say what their intent was, only that...."They are one people with one language, and this is what they have started to do. Now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be impossible for them." (Genesis 11:6)....make of that what you will.

That view isn't universally held, and it would still put Gilgamesh centuries before.

No it would not. The Bible's explanation holds up as to why there are so many unconnected cultures with a universal flood story.
Biblical genealogy puts the flood at around 2370BCE...Moses did not record it until 1513 BCE.

According to WIKI..."The literary history of Gilgamesh begins with five Sumerian poems about Bilgamesh (Sumerian for "Gilgamesh"), king of Uruk, dating from the Third Dynasty of Ur (c. 2100 BC). That leaves us with almost a 300 years discrepancy. Just because Moses recorded it later than the Sumerians version, doesn't mean that it didn't happen before Moses wrote about it.

There are no mentions of it having a rudder. And that much water rapidly appearing over the course of 40 days, it would have created a maelstrom of an ocean. A boat that can't steer itself is doomed in those conditions as massive waves toss it about and roll it.

It was a chest...a large rectangular box that was designed only to float. There was no bow or stern and no rudder.
The dimensions were put to the test in simulations in a wave tank. The design was incredibly stable even with the largest waves. These ratios are used in shipping to this day. How would Noah, who had no experience building anything of that nature or size, know what would sustain life through such a cataclysm?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I am starting to think that tons of Christians in the MidWest bloody hate Jesus. They can be cruel, mean, and calloused and cold towards the lest among them, which is, according to Jesus, how they treat him. No one in history has held more hatred and contempt for the man than those Heartland Bible Thumping Christians.

Hey! I am a Christian from the Heartland.

But there is a lot of fundamentalism here. It preys on the poor and uneducated. Where I grew up, that is a lot of people. Not all of them follow the fundamentalist view, but enough do. It is not very good witness for the Lord, but you cannot convince them of that.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Are you familiar with the concept of archetypes?

Yes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No it would not. The Bible's explanation holds up as to why there are so many unconnected cultures with a universal flood story.
Biblical genealogy puts the flood at around 2370BCE...Moses did not record it until 1513 BCE.

Having flood stories in numerous cultures doesn't make it a "universal flood stories." Rather, flood myths are common in places prone to severe flooding.

There was no bow or stern and no rudder.

Which is very problematic for a ship design, especially under those conditions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hey! I am a Christian from the Heartland.

But there is a lot of fundamentalism here. It preys on the poor and uneducated. Where I grew up, that is a lot of people. Not all of them follow the fundamentalist view, but enough do. It is not very good witness for the Lord, but you cannot convince them of that.

I didn't intent to imply or mean they all are.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No it doesn't, because God promised to never do it again and placed the rainbow in the sky. Plus that is purely speculation and has no basis in scripture.

That view isn't universally held, and it would still put Gilgamesh centuries before.

There are no mentions of it having a rudder. And that much water rapidly appearing over the course of 40 days, it would have created a maelstrom of an ocean. A boat that can't steer itself is doomed in those conditions as massive waves toss it about and roll it.

The earliest writing of Gilgamesh is far older the earliest known writing of Genesis. All this talk about proportions may mean nothing. Maybe one of the writers of Genesis or someone involved in the oral tradition subsumed the tale of Gilgamesh and changed it out of a knowledge of sailing or got lucky.

That boat would have been tossed about like a rag doll in dog pit. It would have been enough to kill a fair amount of its occupants.

It cracks me up to see the back-breaking rationalization that some people go through in order to maintain their deification of the Bible.