• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What does God want from you?

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You have built walls around yourself to prevent you from Discovering anything at all. When you question you are not supposed to merely accept. You are supposed to work at Discovering the answers.
You're a pleasant guy, and I believe that your intentions are sincere and constructive, but don't you think this is a little pretentious of you to offer unsolicited life advice to near strangers? Why do you think he or anybody else that isn't looking for it should take advice from you? You seem to imply that there is some kind of reward for whatever searching you recommend, but what?
I merely pointed to where you can Discover the answers for yourself
Why do you think that there is a need or deficiency there? Why are you assuming that there are more answers to discover or that such answers will enhance life? I believe I have most of the answers that I will ever have, and they are enough. Those beliefs inform my choices and impact my conscious experience of life for the better or worse, and I am content with what I have.
You assume that since past beliefs about God are wrong that there are no facts about God.
Nobody knows anything about any gods that might exist.
You underestimate God
You underestimate nature, which appears to need no god. Or maybe you're calling nature god. What benefit is there to inject gods into any thinking?
If you have evidence then it is a Fact and not a Belief. Beliefs are not always true.
What you call facts and beliefs are what I call justified beliefs and unjustified (or faith-based) beliefs. For a critical thinker, his beliefs arrived at critically are all facts, and they are also his beliefs: factual beliefs. It's just a nomenclature issue. We're referring to the same things using different language.
Talking to God is a simple as a Thought.
Or, just leave the god part out and contemplate, which is talking to oneself.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
You do not Understand. I have found no religion that really Understands God at all. Religion wants to create something wrong with you so you will need them to fix you. Religion teaches people to value Beliefs above all else. Why? Because they don't know. Beliefs are all they have.

It has Never Ever been about Believing!!! It's about Learning and Growing as people. It has never ever been about God. This physical universe and all around us were created for US!! The time-based causal nature of this physical universe is Perfect for Learning.

Stop Blaming, Condemning, Punishing yourself or even Hating yourself. This is all useless energy spent. It will not lead to a Higher Level. Work at fixing things. Learn from any bad choice and nurture the goodness in yourself and others.. Stop living the life others want you to live. Be who you must! It's a part of the plan!!! Listen to the advice of others but walk your own path!!

You are a Child of God. Get strong. You are Special in ways you or others might not see. Share that which is Special about you with others. If you can see nothing special about yourself, share yourself anyway. Your special will touch those around you even if you can't see it.

There are so many in the world starving for Love and Kindness, Sometimes something as little as a kind word can span generations. Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other. It doesn't just give them everything they want. Give everyone Unconditional Love. It will lead to the best choices. Further, even if you don't expect it, that goodness will return in time. It might even show up when you need it the most!! I have Discovered Unconditional Love is the very hardest for anyone to walk away from. People will be drawn to that which is special about you.

Don't go through life walking of eggshells. We were never meant to never make mistakes. In fact, God counts on the screw ups. More is learned around mistakes than most anything else. I can't wait for my next great screw up. It's going to be Glorious!!!

Don't take adversity personally or as punishment. Adversity points a direction to learning. Solve the problem or overcome it. AS I look in my past, all those problems worked themselves out somehow. I acquired wisdom on the journey toward resolution.

It doesn't matter what everyone else says or does. It's what you choose to do that counts. Regardless of your choices, you are on the journey to Discover what the best choices really are. This is something no one can tell you or do for you. In time, you will make it. There is no time limit on learning and God is going to Love you Unconditionally regardless of any choices you make.

Want to be a atheist? Great!! Don't want to be an Atheist? Great too. Choose for yourself and don't worry.

You see. The sun is really shining brightly on you. You are much more capable than you realize!!

God doesn't just pop in because each must Discover the answers for themselves through those free choices. Worry not. You already know God whether you know you know or not!! You will bump into God again and you are going to really like God. God is not what religion is teaching.

Keep your head up. Value the good more than the bad. Nurture the Goodness! You will do Great things!! I Believe in you!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
Ok
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
You're a pleasant guy, and I believe that your intentions are sincere and constructive, but don't you think this is a little pretentious of you to offer unsolicited life advice to near strangers? Why do you think he or anybody else that isn't looking for it should take advice from you? You seem to imply that there is some kind of reward for whatever searching you recommend, but what?

Why do you think that there is a need or deficiency there? Why are you assuming that there are more answers to discover or that such answers will enhance life? I believe I have most of the answers that I will ever have, and they are enough. Those beliefs inform my choices and impact my conscious experience of life for the better or worse, and I am content with what I have.

Nobody knows anything about any gods that might exist.

You underestimate nature, which appears to need no god. Or maybe you're calling nature god. What benefit is there to inject gods into any thinking?

What you call facts and beliefs are what I call justified beliefs and unjustified (or faith-based) beliefs. For a critical thinker, his beliefs arrived at critically are all facts, and they are also his beliefs: factual beliefs. It's just a nomenclature issue. We're referring to the same things using different language.

Or, just leave the god part out and contemplate, which is talking to oneself.
I am not injecting gods in my thinking. I am not assuming anyone is deficient. Do you really think there are no more answers to Discover? Doesn't all knowledge enhance one's life? Isn't there so much more than nature? Is God really one talking to oneself? I do not have the God's capabilities even within imagination.

Life is about interacting with others. This is a part of the multilevel classroom of life. I copy God by placing Truth in the world. I make no demands on anyone. I point where one can Discover what I have said for themselves. It has never ever been about believing. It's about what is!! If one isn't open for all possibilities, how much knowledge will one miss? On the other hand, free choice is an important part of God's system. Each must choose and learn for themselves. No one can take anyone's journey for them.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

God is actually Someone. You already know God whether you know you know or not
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
No, there are no 'facts' about God as @Bird123 is implying. All we can ever have are beliefs about God, which is what he has but denies having.
For example, I 'believe' I know some things about God through Baha'u'llah.
All the secrets of God and the universe are staring us all in the face. How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? The knowledge was there all along waiting to be Discovered.

One can choose to limit oneself through beliefs and assumptions however how could one ever Discover the Truth when one is choosing to be blind to what is? Truth will not always be an agreeable thing, however one can create beliefs all agreeable. The question remains. Does one seek the Truth, What is or does one just seek what feels good to them? In the end, one Discovers What Is will lead to the best results and the best choices. Still, it's for each to choose and learn for themselves.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

libre

Skylark
Staff member
Premium Member
If you are an atheist, speculate. If God really exists and creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?
Well it seems he really wants a bunch of people to yell at me to repent in the street
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
All the secrets of God and the universe are staring us all in the face
Some things are staring us in the face and other things we can find if we look for them. Yet some things about God will always remain mysteries.
How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? The knowledge was there all along waiting to be Discovered.
Yes, man had to figure our how to fly. Those are called inventions.

The Wright brothers' invention of the airplane, starting with the 1903 Wright Flyer, truly changed the world. Imagining what this new world would be like began as soon as the first airplanes took to the air in the early 1900s.

The Wright Brothers | National Air and Space Museum

One can choose to limit oneself through beliefs and assumptions however how could one ever Discover the Truth when one is choosing to be blind to what is? Truth will not always be an agreeable thing, however one can create beliefs all agreeable. The question remains. Does one seek the Truth, What is or does one just seek what feels good to them?
You might want to ask yourself some of those questions.
In the end, one Discovers What Is will lead to the best results and the best choices.
Sometimes but not always.
Still, it's for each to choose and learn for themselves.
That's true.
 

Arnaud1221

Red-hood
I have foot to walk, hand to work and a stomach to eat. It is clear to me. Also, a mind to manage all this.

Ha yes, and the journal to know what to do.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do you really think there are no more answers to Discover?
If you are talking about the mysteries of existence, then yes, I don't expect to ever know any more about such matters than I do now, and I am fine with that. But at a more mundane level, yes, I continue to learn, but little of it has much value. I've gained several new insights posting on RF for a few years, but none of them changed my life at all. This activity has confirmed my choice of atheism for myself, but I didn't really need that, it makes me no more of an atheist, and the only impact it has on me is in what I post.

I'm almost seventy years old and have led a contemplative life. I've read and traveled extensively. Earlier in life, good new ideas came along frequently, as when transitioning from Christianity to atheistic humanism. Such good new ideas came along increasingly less frequency as time progressed, and today, they are rare indeed.
Doesn't all knowledge enhance one's life?
We might not mean the same thing by knowledge. I mean the set of demonstrably correct ideas. Believers tend to call their fervently held beliefs truth or knowledge, but I don't.

Here's an example of knowledge that if I possessed it, would be irrelevant to my life. This is from a recent discussion on another thread, and a statement of apatheism:

She: "I do not think that God will punish me because I do not please Him, but I believe that God will punish evil-doers."

Me: "Why should a decent person concern himself at all with the possibility that such a god exists?"

She: "A decent person would want to know if God exists."

Me: "Why? It doesn't matter to me, and most people consider me decent. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't be interested in a correct answer if one were available, but it's not, and even if it were, nothing at all would change in my life because of that knowledge except that I would stop calling myself an atheist if the answer were yes, there is or was a god out there somewhere. I wouldn't start talking to it if it weren't present. I still wouldn't believe any human being telling me that they know how this god wants me to live. I wouldn't start congregating with others who knew the same. It would similar to learning that there is life on a moon or planet that isn't earth. "Cool. Exo-life exists. What's for lunch?"
Life is about interacting with others.
Agreed, but not just that. It also involves interacting with nature and with oneself (knowing oneself, contemplation, managing conscious experience), but gods play no role in any of that in my life, and as I just expressed above, I don't see where injecting such an idea into my thinking improves it or the outcomes it leads to.
I point where one can Discover what I have said for themselves.
Thanks, but I don't need help there. Your beliefs seem to serve you, but I've arrived where I wanted to be without them. I suppose that I could instruct and advise you as you have tried to do with me, but I won't. Why? You seem happy and centered without my ideas, just as I am without yours.

This activity that others call searching is just living life mindfully, which I have done for over half of my life. It means experiencing much of the best life has to offer and critically evaluating that experience, developing rules to live by in the process and tweaking them through trial-and-error to achieve desired outcomes. Initially, there is a lot of learning and tweaking, but this slows down over time as successful ideas are accumulated and unsuccessful ones tweaked or expunged, and one can end up with a worldview that works and needs no improving. That doesn't mean that this analytical approach ("searching") ever ceases. It just means that it eventually, new good ideas are infrequent.

Speaking of searching, another poster - a mainstream Protestant Christian - was admonishing me to investigate the supernatural (whatever that means), as if I hadn't already come to a stable position on that matter, as if there was anything I could experience that would change that position, as if there was any more to know on the subject. Like you, I'm sure he meant well, but he had nothing to offer or teach me beyond his faith-based and unfalsifiable beliefs, which have no value to me. And, of course, to him, investigate means to think about supernaturalism until the idea becomes palatable or appealing, which will never happen unless my mind and with it, my critical thinking skills begin to fail.

It seems to be a common value that we should be searching all of our lives for answers including those unavailable to us. I consider it a virtue to recognize when one has reached a stable position that cannot be improved upon and be content with that. Searching for gods and the supernatural is pointless, and at this point, is no different than living life without actively searching for these things. If gods or the supernatural manifest in my life, fine. If they don't, that's fine, too. If they exist, fine. If they don't, that's OK, too. If I ever get an answer, cool! What's for lunch? If I never get an answer, that's perfectly OK, and what I expect will be the case.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Well it seems he really wants a bunch of people to yell at me to repent in the street
You are mistaken. God wants you to share your view they are missing. Perhaps, you should ask them how they would like to be yelled at to repent. Clearly, they do not reflect God. They reflect mankind.

God gave everyone a different view to guaranty mankind a larger view than any one person could have. Clearly, there is much they do not see.

It's not the trouble in our lives that matter. It's what we choose to do and how it changes the lives of ourselves and others. God is thinking you are doing better than you realize. People who yell at you to repent do need to see the other side in order to Learn and Grow toward a Higher Level.

So often people try their best to avoid Drama, yet more is learned around Drama than at most any other time. Do not let it bother you!! Smile! Love them Unconditionally while you point them in the right direction. God will surely be smiling when you do!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Some things are staring us in the face and other things we can find if we look for them. Yet some things about God will always remain mysteries.

Yes, man had to figure our how to fly. Those are called inventions.

The Wright brothers' invention of the airplane, starting with the 1903 Wright Flyer, truly changed the world. Imagining what this new world would be like began as soon as the first airplanes took to the air in the early 1900s.

The Wright Brothers | National Air and Space Museum


You might want to ask yourself some of those questions.

Sometimes but not always.

That's true.
If there are mysteries about God, would not a Hungry Student be working at Solving those mysteries??? God hides nothing!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
If you are talking about the mysteries of existence, then yes, I don't expect to ever know any more about such matters than I do now, and I am fine with that. But at a more mundane level, yes, I continue to learn, but little of it has much value. I've gained several new insights posting on RF for a few years, but none of them changed my life at all. This activity has confirmed my choice of atheism for myself, but I didn't really need that, it makes me no more of an atheist, and the only impact it has on me is in what I post.

I'm almost seventy years old and have led a contemplative life. I've read and traveled extensively. Earlier in life, good new ideas came along frequently, as when transitioning from Christianity to atheistic humanism. Such good new ideas came along increasingly less frequency as time progressed, and today, they are rare indeed.

We might not mean the same thing by knowledge. I mean the set of demonstrably correct ideas. Believers tend to call their fervently held beliefs truth or knowledge, but I don't.

Here's an example of knowledge that if I possessed it, would be irrelevant to my life. This is from a recent discussion on another thread, and a statement of apatheism:

She: "I do not think that God will punish me because I do not please Him, but I believe that God will punish evil-doers."

Me: "Why should a decent person concern himself at all with the possibility that such a god exists?"

She: "A decent person would want to know if God exists."

Me: "Why? It doesn't matter to me, and most people consider me decent. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't be interested in a correct answer if one were available, but it's not, and even if it were, nothing at all would change in my life because of that knowledge except that I would stop calling myself an atheist if the answer were yes, there is or was a god out there somewhere. I wouldn't start talking to it if it weren't present. I still wouldn't believe any human being telling me that they know how this god wants me to live. I wouldn't start congregating with others who knew the same. It would similar to learning that there is life on a moon or planet that isn't earth. "Cool. Exo-life exists. What's for lunch?"

Agreed, but not just that. It also involves interacting with nature and with oneself (knowing oneself, contemplation, managing conscious experience), but gods play no role in any of that in my life, and as I just expressed above, I don't see where injecting such an idea into my thinking improves it or the outcomes it leads to.

Thanks, but I don't need help there. Your beliefs seem to serve you, but I've arrived where I wanted to be without them. I suppose that I could instruct and advise you as you have tried to do with me, but I won't. Why? You seem happy and centered without my ideas, just as I am without yours.

This activity that others call searching is just living life mindfully, which I have done for over half of my life. It means experiencing much of the best life has to offer and critically evaluating that experience, developing rules to live by in the process and tweaking them through trial-and-error to achieve desired outcomes. Initially, there is a lot of learning and tweaking, but this slows down over time as successful ideas are accumulated and unsuccessful ones tweaked or expunged, and one can end up with a worldview that works and needs no improving. That doesn't mean that this analytical approach ("searching") ever ceases. It just means that it eventually, new good ideas are infrequent.

Speaking of searching, another poster - a mainstream Protestant Christian - was admonishing me to investigate the supernatural (whatever that means), as if I hadn't already come to a stable position on that matter, as if there was anything I could experience that would change that position, as if there was any more to know on the subject. Like you, I'm sure he meant well, but he had nothing to offer or teach me beyond his faith-based and unfalsifiable beliefs, which have no value to me. And, of course, to him, investigate means to think about supernaturalism until the idea becomes palatable or appealing, which will never happen unless my mind and with it, my critical thinking skills begin to fail.

It seems to be a common value that we should be searching all of our lives for answers including those unavailable to us. I consider it a virtue to recognize when one has reached a stable position that cannot be improved upon and be content with that. Searching for gods and the supernatural is pointless, and at this point, is no different than living life without actively searching for these things. If gods or the supernatural manifest in my life, fine. If they don't, that's fine, too. If they exist, fine. If they don't, that's OK, too. If I ever get an answer, cool! What's for lunch? If I never get an answer, that's perfectly OK, and what I expect will be the case.
Clearly, the lady worrying about God punishing has been corrupted by religion. She has much to learn, however life is a learning process.

Each person should choose for themselves what they seek, what is important to them. I find it troubling you unable to find new ideas. Perhaps, one should work on Discovering new ideas instead of waiting for them to come from others. Perhaps a study or an exercise in neural plasticity might generate new ideas. This makes big differences in an aging mind.

Life is about Learning and Growing. I hope there is never a time that I could be content and not wanting to know more. On the other hand, when one reaches a point where learning is impossible, it will be time to move on.

You are right. It is not a necessity to search for God. You will bump into God soon enough. You are going to like God. You are going to want to be just like God.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Clearly, the lady worrying about God punishing has been corrupted by religion. She has much to learn, however life is a learning process.
Anyone who believes that evil-doers don't deserve to be punished not only goes against religion, but goes against all the courts of law in the world.

Good luck with your self-made religion. It in no way concurs with reality. It is a fantasy.

You have so much to learn, but life is a learning process.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Aren't you going to be surprised when it happens to you? I know it sounds impossible but it is a reality that you will Discover when you bump into God. That's what I see. It's very clear!!
I don't believe that that's what you see clearly, or that you or any other person knows anything at all about any deities that might exist. That's what you believe fervently and intuitively. And I find it a bit presumptuous and irresponsible. There are some pretty lost individuals on these threads that feel that they have bumped into a god and follow some ism that appears counterproductive in their lives. If I gave advice, it would be to learn how to live without a god belief or a religion. It's liberating.

You won't find me doing what you and so many other believers do to promulgate a worldview. I'm happy to describe humanism to others and what it has done for me if they ask or it comes up in conversation, but I don't care if the reader becomes a humanist. Let him remain a theist if that's what's comfortable to him. Your words are almost exclusively exhortation of others to go out and find a god, with implied but never explicitly discussed rewards for succeeding. I'd much rather read your cheerful philosophy without all of that supernaturalism in it. And, I think you'd be more effective at helping people if you dropped the religious language and just focused on attitude and finding meaning in life without magic and fictional devices.
I find it troubling you unable to find new ideas
You've left out important context in that paraphrasing of my actual comment, which is that the frequency of good new ideas has diminished over time. New ideas are available everywhere, but few of them are good or useful ideas, meaning useful in some small or large way life changing. That's the nature of learning a finite body of material. I studied medicine at university. Early on, I was flooded with important, useful ideas about how kidneys work and how to choose and use antibiotics, but by the time I passed my boards in Internal Medicine, I had learned most of the useful body of knowledge for a practicing internist. The state tested me to be sure. There was more to learn, like how to do surgery, but that wouldn't be useful to me. Thereafter, learning was mostly limited to advances in therapeutics and diagnostics, and several new diseases like Lyme disease discovered after my entrance into private practice.

The only kind of learning that impacts my life these days regards local activities - new restaurants, roads blocked, a new streaming service, etc..
Perhaps, one should work on Discovering new ideas instead of waiting for them to come from others
My new ideas don't come from others. Virtually everything I've learned, I've pursued that knowledge, whether it be the lofty ideas considered at university or mundane knowledge of how life works gained by living it mindfully. The insights gleaned posting on RF come from my own analysis of what I read there.
Life is about Learning and Growing.
Not any more. That characterizes the first stage of life, which almost all learning and growing (walking, speaking, school, acculturation). Then, we reach the generative stage characterized by production and creation (career, raising a family, saving), and finally, a leisure stage (retirement). The rate of growth declines and the nature of growth changes as we pass from the first to the second stage, and both are less common in the third stage. The rate of production and creation declines as we pass from the generative stage to the leisure stage. At this point, my life really isn't about learning or growing, or building for the future, but enjoying one's days by benefitting from the fruits of those first two stages.

I understand that you might view my attitude negatively - as undesirable complacency - but I'd disagree. I'm not searching for anything because there's nothing I want that I don't have, and I don't mean just materially. I enjoy my days, I hope you do as well. I am hoping for thousands more just like yesterday and the one before that. Today, my wife and I will play duplicate bridge until noon a tour bridge club, go for lunch, and in the afternoon, she has her ukulele class (this is the kind of learning that actually impacts the quality of life). Then we'll retire with the dogs to the terraza overlooking the garden to watch the news and Jeopardy! followed by music videos (it's pretty much all Grateful Dead full concerts) over wine as the sun goes down. And yes, I am learning and growing, but probably not in the way you mean. I'm learning about the evolution of the band and its music in new ways.

So what do you recommend I search for? Gods? Why?
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Some mysteries can never be solved. One of those mysteries is the intrinsic nature of God.

Tell that to the atheists. ;)
You are a Spiritual being in your true nature. This is how you are made in God's image. You must only look within yourself to Discover the nature of God.

One can tell all day long, however each must Discover it for themselves. Wisdom is acquired along the journey to Discover knowledge. That is why this physical universe exists in the first place.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 
Top