What does God want from you?

[muhammad_isa]

I just have some of my own personal problems to work out..

It's your birthday!
That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Leave your problems for another day .. go out and enjoy yourself with family/friends.
Best wishes.

 

[Bird123]

What you have been teaching yourself isn't God.

Nobody knows God the way you are presenting God. God is not a human being.

God can only be known by His attributes.
God is:

All-Powerful
All-Knowing
All-Wise
Omnipresent
Self-Existent
Self-Sufficient
Immaterial
Immutable
Impassible
Infinite
Eternal
Holy
Sovereign
Righteous
Loving
Beneficent
Merciful
Gracious
Merciful
Just

Humans can share some of God's attributes - Righteous, Loving, Beneficent, Merciful, Gracious, Merciful, Just - but humans do not have any of the other attributes of God, so nobody can ever be 'just like God.'

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Walls and limits will not prevent your surprise.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I use logic, not belief.

It seems far from logic to me. It must be Fuzzy Logic. Good Luck with that!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

No, that is not the reason. I don't have the power to fix evil.

Justice. Do you even know what that is?

What is your attempt to fix evil? Judging, Hating, Condemning, Punishment, Intimidating, Coercing, Anger, Wrath, Revenge, Pay Back, and maybe We against They all in the name of your so called Justice?? I understand why it doesn't fix things. Would it fix you??

If I don't know what Justice is, why don't you explain it to me. Share your view that keeps you hanging onto the petty things mankind holds so dear!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, I strongly disagree with not being able to have a relationship with God. Even before Jesus, God formed relationships with all sorts of people. The Biblical God reached out to all sorts of people, from kings and queens, to slaves and prostitutes.

I believe that people can have a relationship with God, just not a 'direct relationship' with God.
As such, I do not believe anyone written about in the Bible has a 'direct relationship' with God.

And that's not how Jesus is a mediator between God and humanity. Jesus came to atone for our sins and reconcile us back to God, so that we may be able to go to Heaven and be with God directly. Before Jesus' atonement for us through His death, we weren't allowed into Heaven as nothing impure can enter Heaven.

I believe that Jesus died for our sins, but not for any 'original sin' of Adam and Eve, since I don't believe there ever was an original sin.
So, what do you think happened to people who lived and died before Jesus came to atone for our sins?

That's a totally separate thing than having a relationship with God. No, we were always having a relationship with God as humanity as a whole and as individuals from the beginning. He's always been reaching out.

Again, I believe that people can have a relationship with God, just not a 'direct relationship' with God. I believe we need an intermediary between us and God, what I called a mediator. The mediator is the Messenger of God, and through Him we can know the Will of God.

I do not believe there can ever be any direct back and forth communication from God to humans. Baha'u'llah refers to that as direct intercourse.

“Immeasurably exalted is He above the strivings of human mind to grasp His Essence, or of human tongue to describe His mystery. No tie of direct intercourse can ever bind Him to the things He hath created, nor can the most abstruse and most remote allusions of His creatures do justice to His being. Through His world-pervading Will He hath brought into being all created things. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His own exalted and indivisible Essence, and will everlastingly continue to remain concealed in His inaccessible majesty and glory. All that is in heaven and all that is in the earth have come to exist at His bidding, and by His Will all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being. How can, therefore, the creature which the Word of God hath fashioned comprehend the nature of Him Who is the Ancient of Days?”​

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 318​

I believe that God can inspire us and guide us and communicate thoughts to our mind, but there is no way we could ever know those thoughts came from God, we can only believe that.

 

[Bird123]

Yes. And it's enough. That's what being content implies - being satisfied. It's not easily achieved, and requires luck, but it also requires wisdom.

That's an odd thing to wish for. You hope to always be wanting and needing more?

He's trying to reach contentment. This is metaphorical hunger, hunger for new knowledge. That characterized the first two stages of life as I described them - learning as much as possible of the ideas that might be useful, acquiring knowledge through parents, schools, training, and life experience. Then in the generative years, one is looking for ways to advance in his career, save and invest, and learning through travel and books. All of that had the potential to help him reach his destination and also to help teach him what that destination ought to be. Now, new information is largely for interest. As I've explained, I'm done searching. I'm where I want to be living the kind of life that I've arranged for myself, and fortunately, I'm content.

As I've explained, I understand that my attitude will be condemned by people who feel that they must always keep searching. To them and to you, I say good luck. May you find whatever it is that you still need. You likely think that thinking abouts gods is a good way to spend time. That may be part of your problem. You're never going to get the answers you seek. This is as close to an answer as you can get - the question of the existence and nature gods is unanswerable. Recognizing that is liberating - liberating from fruitless searching.

Sorry, amigo, but that's a big F in logic. For starters, the first comment doesn't ask a question. It's a conditional statement. Then, you've simply ignored the logical possibility that no gods exist or can be found. You seem to have dismissed it without argument. Also, you've ignored that gods may exist but not be findable.

Agreed, although it helps to begin with a good definition of truth and a means to determine what is true or correct according to that definition. I suspect that you consider your last comment about gods being findable truth. I don't. It's a fervently held and faith-based belief, which the faithful commonly call truth, but as I said, I don't.

And that brings us back to you having nothing to offer me. I'm not interested in such "truths." The "real truths" I discovered for myself include that knowledge.

your quotes:1. You're never going to get the answers you seek.
2. the question of the existence and nature gods is unanswerable.
3. you've simply ignored the logical possibility that no gods exist or can be found.


Mr answer:If you assume God can not be found or the existence and nature of God is unanswerable, You are not open to all possibilities. You have already assumed the answer and formed a Belief that limits you and prevents you from ever Discovering anything at all. Why do you not want God to be found?

As I became an adult, I realized so much of those holy books did not add up at all. This is when I started my journey to Discover the Real Truth regardless of what that truth might be. I was even open to the possibility that God did not exist. See??? All possibilities !!

If God existed then even God's actions could be seen in a time-based causal universe. I studied why things are the way they are and why Great Intelligence would have it this way. As I Discovered more it led to more doors that I could open and more knowledge. Soon, a picture started coming together. I started to Understand God and God's system and why and how it does all add up perfectly. The base I would not fall under was that everything about God must add up perfectly or it wasn't real.

In time, my Understanding grew, however I still only had Beliefs. This is when I got a visit from God. At this point God was not a Belief anymore. The visit also confirmed much of what I have Discovered.

A visit from God is something no one could imagine. God is very High Intelligence. God is working on multiple levels with multiple views. It is a struggle for one just to keep up. A few moments conversation with God might take a week for one to figure out all that was said and who knows went over one's head. Without a certain amount of understanding ahead of time, most would just be confused by the experience.

Names are never used. Everyone already knows who everyone is. Everyone already knows God whether they realize this now or not. God is about what is. Everyone is going to really like God. God doesn't value all those petty things mankind holds so dear. God doesn't carry around all the baggage or garbage so many people choose to do.

The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view of things. I cry that. I work on mine everyday. So many times people limit themselves from so many of the possibilities that do exist. I try not to be that person.

People's goal is to have it made. This helps keeping things moving forward through resolution advancing everyone forward to a Higher Level.

You speak of the hard work and luck to be content or be Happy. You do not understand. Happiness and being content is no more than a Choice. Even In the midst of great turmoil, I will always be Happy. I will always be content to be accomplished and moving forward to Greater Knowledge, Wisdom, moving ever forward to a Higher Level. Yes, I want to be like God. There is much to Learn and Discover. It will take many physical lifetimes but all God's children, all of us are going to make it. There really is no time limit on Learning,

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

It's your birthday!
That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Leave your problems for another day .. go out and enjoy yourself with family/friends.
Best wishes.

Thanks, but I have no family/friends to enjoy myself with, so a birthday is no big deal. It is just another day on the calendar.

Sadly, I cannot leave my problems for another day. My phone went out a couple of days ago so I had an appointment for the cable technician to come out today and fix the problem.... On top of that this morning I got an e-mail from one of my tenants telling me that his roof was leaking and the ceiling caved in....

When it rains it pours, but I don't be able to reach a contractor till tomorrow since it is Sunday and I hope my tenant realizes that...
Thank God for small favors.

 

[Trailblazer]

Walls and limits will not prevent your surprise.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Walls and limits will not prevent your surprise.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

What is your attempt to fix evil? Judging, Hating, Condemning, Punishment, Intimidating, Coercing, Anger, Wrath, Revenge, Pay Back, and maybe We against They all in the name of your so called Justice?? I understand why it doesn't fix things. Would it fix you??

I make no attempt to fix evil since that is not my job. If people are evil they need to fix themselves.

If I don't know what Justice is, why don't you explain it to me. Share your view that keeps you hanging onto the petty things mankind holds so dear!!

Justice includes concepts such as an individual being fairly rewarded or punished based on their actions, as in God's justice towards man; the administration and enforcement of a set of laws wherein all peoples are treated with equity, as in a just government; and the sense of fairness that should exist between two parties, as in an individual's practice of virtue towards others.[1] In the Bahá’í writings justice is described as the necessary prerequisite to true brotherhood and unity among all peoples, the foundation for the organization of the world, the basis for the life of mankind and a guardian and protection for men. The writings state that justice is upheld by the twin pillars of reward and punishment. Additionally Bahá’u’lláh refers to justice as the best beloved of all things in the sight of God.[2]

Justice - Bahaipedia, an encyclopedia about the Bahá’í Faith

bahaipedia.org

That's what I see. It's very clear!!!

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Mr answer:If you assume God can not be found or the existence and nature of God is unanswerable, You are not open to all possibilities.

Disagree. First, I make no such assumption that gods cannot be found or their natures known. I'm a critical thinker. My mind is NEVER closed to new evidence. If such a god exists and can manifests clearly, I'll know it. Bill Maher said it well:

"I’m open to anything for which there is evidence. Show me a god and I will believe in him. If Jesus Christ comes down from the sky during the halftime show of this Sunday’s Super Bowl and turns all the nachos into loaves and fishes, I’ll think ... “Oh look at that, I was wrong. There he is. My bad. Praise the lord!"

You have already assumed the answer and formed a Belief that limits you and prevents you from ever Discovering anything at all.

I've explicitly denied that. Why do you think you know me better than I do?

The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view of things. I cry that. I work on mine everyday. So many times people limit themselves from so many of the possibilities that do exist. I try not to be that person.

And how has that profited you? I've alluded to this before. You seem to be recommending a path for others to follow even without knowing who they are or the circumstances of their lives, implying that it's a path that would benefit anybody, but never say what the benefit of taking your advice would be, or how it helps you.

You do not understand. Happiness and being content is no more than a Choice.

Here's more of that condescension and hubris. I doubt that you have anything to teach me about happiness, but you might be able to learn a thing or two from me about happiness.

I will always be content to be accomplished and moving forward to Greater Knowledge, Wisdom, moving ever forward to a Higher Level.

Or chasing your tail spinning in circles. How can you tell the difference?

Earlier, you were condemning being content and hoping never to be that. Now you say that you're content, although it could be understood to mean that you're content never being content. That sounds like a burden to me at this stage of life. It describes me when I was younger, because one could never know enough, as any learning could potentially be life-changing, and we never knew when opportunities might arise and what skills might be necessary to recognize them as such and exploit them in one's journey of making a life and a future.

But that's no longer the case. As I've said, very few new ideas are useful or lead to changes that make life better in nontrivial ways in retirement.

Can you share any examples of what you call accomplishments or "Greater Knowledge, Wisdom, [and] moving ever forward to a Higher Level" that you have gleaned? I'm guessing that you can't name anything that would entice a person who is content to be content that he ought to expend the effort you advise him to pursue whatever it is you think you are pursuing.

 

[Bird123]

I make no attempt to fix evil since that is not my job. If people are evil they need to fix themselves.

Justice includes concepts such as an individual being fairly rewarded or punished based on their actions, as in God's justice towards man; the administration and enforcement of a set of laws wherein all peoples are treated with equity, as in a just government; and the sense of fairness that should exist between two parties, as in an individual's practice of virtue towards others.[1] In the Bahá’í writings justice is described as the necessary prerequisite to true brotherhood and unity among all peoples, the foundation for the organization of the world, the basis for the life of mankind and a guardian and protection for men. The writings state that justice is upheld by the twin pillars of reward and punishment. Additionally Bahá’u’lláh refers to justice as the best beloved of all things in the sight of God.[2]

Justice - Bahaipedia, an encyclopedia about the Bahá’í Faith

bahaipedia.org

That's what I see. It's very clear!!!

Ain't My Job!!!! Isn't it everyone's job to do what is Best for the other?? Is running from the problem solving anything?

You are in trouble with justice already. Who is to decide what is fair? Might makes right? Is it fair punishment to just lock someone away without trying to solve the problem? If you are using pain such as loss of freedom in an attempt to alter or intimidate the choices of another, what are you teaching those around you? Where is the sense of fairness for all?

Sure, society needs to protect people. On the other hand, justice goes out the window when nothing is being done to fix the problem. Ain't my job! Oh, really. How many are saying the same thing resulting of nothing being fixed? It seems ,as it exists, justice is just an excuse to value so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear!! Problems never go away until they are solved.

Is it justice to send anyone to Hell for eternity without the possibility of redemption? Does this paint God having any kind of justice at all?

One can choose to ignore so very much in favor of Beliefs even when the Real Truth stares one in the face.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Disagree. First, I make no such assumption that gods cannot be found or their natures known. I'm a critical thinker. My mind is NEVER closed to new evidence. If such a god exists and can manifests clearly, I'll know it. Bill Maher said it well:

"I’m open to anything for which there is evidence. Show me a god and I will believe in him. If Jesus Christ comes down from the sky during the halftime show of this Sunday’s Super Bowl and turns all the nachos into loaves and fishes, I’ll think ... “Oh look at that, I was wrong. There he is. My bad. Praise the lord!"

I've explicitly denied that. Why do you think you know me better than I do?

And how has that profited you? I've alluded to this before. You seem to be recommending a path for others to follow even without knowing who they are or the circumstances of their lives, implying that it's a path that would benefit anybody, but never say what the benefit of taking your advice would be, or how it helps you.

Here's more of that condescension and hubris. I doubt that you have anything to teach me about happiness, but you might be able to learn a thing or two from me about happiness.

Or chasing your tail spinning in circles. How can you tell the difference?

Earlier, you were condemning being content and hoping never to be that. Now you say that you're content, although it could be understood to mean that you're content never being content. That sounds like a burden to me at this stage of life. It describes me when I was younger, because one could never know enough, as any learning could potentially be life-changing, and we never knew when opportunities might arise and what skills might be necessary to recognize them as such and exploit them in one's journey of making a life and a future.

But that's no longer the case. As I've said, very few new ideas are useful or lead to changes that make life better in nontrivial ways in retirement.

Can you share any examples of what you call accomplishments or "Greater Knowledge, Wisdom, [and] moving ever forward to a Higher Level" that you have gleaned? I'm guessing that you can't name anything that would entice a person who is content to be content that he ought to expend the effort you advise him to pursue whatever it is you think you are pursuing.

It has never ever been about Believing. I am not trying to convince you to do anything. I am telling you what is. I make no demands of you. Your free choices should be your free choices. Be who you must! It's a part of the plan!! Listen to the advice of others but walk your own path!! Life's lessons are best learned that way.

Am I chasing my tail in circles? Of no!! I am moving forward. On the other hand, a hungry student can always come up with a million more questions to answer.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Ain't My Job!!!! Isn't it everyone's job to do what is Best for the other?? Is running from the problem solving anything?

No, it is not my job to FIX other people. What is Best for the other is that they fix themselves. Other people can help them if they sincerely want to change.

You are in trouble with justice already. Who is to decide what is fair? Might makes right? Is it fair punishment to just lock someone away without trying to solve the problem?

Yes, it is fair to lock people up when they commit crimes. It is nobody's job to fix their problems. The only solution is for those criminals to follow the Laws if God, in which case they would never commit any crimes.

If you are using pain such as loss of freedom in an attempt to alter or intimidate the choices of another, what are you teaching those around you? Where is the sense of fairness for all?

No, that is not what imprisonment if for, to alter or intimidate the choices of another. It is to take away their choices so they can no longer hurt other people. That is completely fair. Why should a murderer be free to live in society after having taken away another human life and caused immeasurable grief and sorrow for the families left behind?

Sure, society needs to protect people. On the other hand, justice goes out the window when nothing is being done to fix the problem. Ain't my job! Oh, really. How many are saying the same thing resulting of nothing being fixed? It seems ,as it exists, justice is just an excuse to value so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear!! Problems never go away until they are solved.

The only solution is for the perpetrators to change their own selves. Their problems won't go away until they solve their problems.
There is nothing petty about appropriate punishment for crimes committed. That is called justice.

Is it justice to send anyone to Hell for eternity without the possibility of redemption? Does this paint God having any kind of justice at all?

Now you are changing the subject. I don't believe that anyone is sent to Hell, let alone forever. That is a Christian belief.

 

[Bird123]

No, it is not my job to FIX other people. What is Best for the other is that they fix themselves. Other people can help them if they sincerely want to change.

Yes, it is fair to lock people up when they commit crimes. It is nobody's job to fix their problems. The only solution is for those criminals to follow the Laws if God, in which case they would never commit any crimes.

No, that is not what imprisonment if for, to alter or intimidate the choices of another. It is to take away their choices so they can no longer hurt other people. That is completely fair. Why should a murderer be free to live in society after having taken away another human life and caused immeasurable grief and sorrow for the families left behind?

The only solution is for the perpetrators to change their own selves. Their problems won't go away until they solve their problems.
There is nothing petty about appropriate punishment for crimes committed. That is called justice.

Now you are changing the subject. I don't believe that anyone is sent to Hell, let alone forever. That is a Christian belief.

Sounds like Pay Back to me.

Maybe, you are right. Fixing others is a Higher Level. On the other hand, isn't everyone capable of doing something?

Ok, so you are one of the many who will not fix the problem. Is it really a good choice just to live with the problem? Are you Accepting again??? Don't you realize the problem will never go away until it is Fixed? How many must be hurt until mankind at least tries to work on the problem? It's clear all those petty things mankind holds so dear is not working.

There is so much left to Discover!! All the secrets are staring us all in the face. Nothing should be ignored.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Sounds like Pay Back to me.

Some of it is payback, greatly deserved payback Imo. Some people want payback for the loss of a loved one.
It is not a teaching of my religion that we should seek payback, but rather only seek a just punishment for the crime that was committed.

Maybe, you are right. Fixing others is a Higher Level. On the other hand, isn't everyone capable of doing something?

Ok, so you are one of the many who will not fix the problem. Is it really a good choice just to live with the problem? Are you Accepting again??? Don't you realize the problem will never go away until it is Fixed? How many must be hurt until mankind at least tries to work on the problem? It's clear all those petty things mankind holds so dear is not working.

AGAIN, I am not responsible for fixing other people's moral failings. They are responsible to fix those.
Following the Laws of God is the only way the problem will be fixed since the problem is caused by not following the Laws of God.
People do not even be religious to follow those laws. Most atheists follow those laws, maybe even better than religious people. That's why you don't see many atheists in prison.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[an anarchist]

OK. God creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

If you are an atheist, speculate. If God really exists and creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

Before you just give a quick answer, consider a Being capable of creating the universe and you has to be very very smart. Consider High Intellect with your answers. Make God's answer High Intellect.

If there is a creator God, He wants humanity to suffer. We suffer, so how can it be any other way?

 

[YoursTrue]

If there is a creator God, He wants humanity to suffer. We suffer, so how can it be any other way?

Let's say for the discussion that there is no God. So then the suffering would be because of evolution, right?

 

[Trailblazer]

If there is a creator God, He wants humanity to suffer. We suffer, so how can it be any other way?

Yes, that is one thing He wants. I am a living testimony to that.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Some of it is payback, greatly deserved payback Imo. Some people want payback for the loss of a loved one.
It is not a teaching of my religion that we should seek payback, but rather only seek a just punishment for the crime that was committed.

But you didn't list retribution among your reasons for incarcerating a convicted criminal. Your words were, "that is not what imprisonment if for, to alter or intimidate the choices of another. It is to take away their choices so they can no longer hurt other people." I would disagree with the first part of your comment. Prison is not only to remove a danger from the streets, but also to serve as a disincentive against committing future crime by anybody.

Some would add rehabilitation to that list, but we really don't know how to do that and it seems that many inmates are hardened by prison, but retribution is a fourth reason for some but not all. That's a religious value - that people deserve punishment for disobedience apart from any beneficial effect it may have for the individual or society, and the punishment should be severe, which accounts for the indifference regarding or even the enthusiasm for the mistreatment of prisoners.

But does a good parent ground a child just to hurt them? No. It's to lovingly and constructively modify behavior, and many believe that the corrections model should emulate that.

Let's say for the discussion that there is no God. So then the suffering would be because of evolution, right?

Yes. The ability to sense physical pain and sensations like coldness and hunger confers a survival advantage. So does experiencing fear. They all modify behavior to increase survival. Shame also modifies behavior constructively. Other dysphorias like anxiety, loneliness, grief, and boredom also modify behavior, although the survival advantage is less clear with some of these.

Where else could these proclivities come from in a godless universe but evolution? Some creature that originally experienced any of these in their mildest forms survived and eventually, the trait became widespread and probably more intense in its descendants (greater penetration in both the population's gene pool and its mean phenotype).

 

[Trailblazer]

That's a religious value - that people deserve punishment for disobedience apart from any beneficial effect it may have for the individual or society, and the punishment should be severe, which accounts for the indifference regarding or even the enthusiasm for the mistreatment of prisoners.

I do not think it is a religious value that people deserve punishment for disobedience apart from any beneficial effect it may have for the individual or society, and the punishment should be severe. That does not come from religion, it is a value shared by all of society, nor does a religious value account for the indifference regarding or even the enthusiasm for the mistreatment of prisoners.

But you might be correct in saying that the idea of punishment comes from religion, just as the idea of reward comes from religion, and since most people are religious the idea of punishment is embedded in the justice system.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I do not think it is a religious value that people deserve punishment for disobedience apart from any beneficial effect

Retributive justice is a central tenet of Christianity. It's the purpose of hell. Submit or burn forever to the benefit of nobody but any sadists watching. it's what all the fuss about free will in Christianity is about. Free will is a necessary concept to attempt to justify the gratuitous suffering that follows insubordination.

That's where the idea that prisons should be hellscapes comes from. That's why many cheer the rapes in prison. It's right out of Dante's Inferno. It's how hell is or might be, so it's how prisons should be. God's angry vengeance is the model.

It's also why so many of the faithful begin the punishment of those such as gays that they perceive as sinners while still alive. They think God approves, since he'll be taking over soon following death, and what's a few more years added to the front of infinite suffering anyway?