What does God want from you?

[Trailblazer]

Really? "regards not persons"

Deuteronomy 10:17 Interlinear: for Jehovah your God -- He is God of the gods, and Lord of the lords; God, the great, the mighty, and the fearful; who accepteth not persons, nor taketh a bribe;

biblehub.com

God accepteth not persons nor takes a bribe. Of course not. Only humans take bribes.

How is that verse relevant as to whether God is a person (by which I mean a human being)?

Practically the entire Old Testament has turned God into a human being.

 

[Ebionite]

How is that verse relevant as to whether God is a person (by which I mean a human being)?

The Hebrew word paniy from Deuteronomy 10:17 can be translated as person.

Persons and human beings are different things, although both words are used to describe beings that have no connection to deity.

 

[Bird123]

Evil is irrational, there is nothing to understand about it, but that it needs to be condemned. Yes to a degree you forbear and forgive, but it also needs to be condemned.

God in a way has forgiven mankind in that he wants to save them, but if they don't turn to him and repent, then there is nothing he can do to save them. Death is a time ticker that is suppose to pressure us to be good. If we don't get it right now, we will never get it right.

Why would God need to forgive anyone? Given enough lessons, all will make the best choices. Past choices and learning from those choices make us who we are today. Is there really any need to hate or value the petty things mankind holds so dear? Simple, just fix the problems instead of generating more hate and hurt that will return to hate and hurt back.

Part of a good salesman is to create a need along with generating fear of not getting that need met. There is no time limit on learning. One can generate hate and hurt, condemning others instead of working at fixing the problems for lifetime after lifetime until one realizes hate, hurt, and condemning will not deliver the best results. How many lifetimes will it take? It doesn't matter. All the kiddies will learn there are better ways. Make it easy on yourself.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

The Hebrew word paniy from Deuteronomy 10:17 can be translated as person.

Persons and human beings are different things, although both words are used to describe beings that have no connection to deity.

So what is a person, in the context of that verse?

 

[Link]

Why would God need to forgive anyone? Given enough lessons, all will make the best choices. Past choices and learning from those choices make us who we are today. Is there really any need to hate or value the petty things mankind holds so dear? Simple, just fix the problems instead of generating more hate and hurt that will return to hate and hurt back.

Part of a good salesman is to create a need along with generating fear of not getting that need met. There is no time limit on learning. One can generate hate and hurt, condemning others instead of working at fixing the problems for lifetime after lifetime until one realizes hate, hurt, and condemning will not deliver the best results. How many lifetimes will it take? It doesn't matter. All the kiddies will learn there are better ways. Make it easy on yourself.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I think if a soul does not fulfill the promise the first time with death pressuring, it will always fail after that. There is no way of redemption after really. This is the constraint, there is no way.

I've explained why before. How can it fulfill it, you say learn, but what if God bestowed his knowledge of himself and path before us coming to this world? If we fail the first time, how we going to pledge to God after? It won't be as sincere and would be tainted with failure from the life before. Or if we recall everything fully, it would be purely fear based with no room for love.

Fear of God right now is praiseworthy because God is hidden to a degree yet manifest. It takes love of God to fear him, since, it's easier just to do away with his reality and justice and try not to escape his judgment that way. It takes humility. But if God is fully manifest, where is the room to be humble and fear God out of love? There is none at this point.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

and you believe this? I don't

Here's an example of YOU discussing scripture in which you don't believe. As you now see, sometimes, there's a reason to do that.

I don't understand why you bother with the Bible when you have the Qur'an, which is accurate.

You recently called these two religions true religions, but now you advice disregarding one's holy book.

AS badly as you want what I have been saying to be fiction, I have placed Real Truth on your plate. I had to Discover the Real Truth regardless of what the Real Truth turned out to be.

What about it deserves to be called truth?

It all comes down to what you seek. Perhaps you need to start being true to yourself. You have no will to seek God at all.

Me neither. I have no need for a god belief or a religion. I've found what I sought without gods and in part because of that. You seem to assume that a transition to theism is a good move for anybody. I disagree.

Aren't you accepting things such as the parameters you had no control over without full understanding? That sounds like religion to me.

That's not religion to me. Religion is the set of beliefs and practices of a person with a supernatural worldview.

I realize the goal for most people is to have it made.

That's the goal of every healthy person. Some see that as achieving paradise in heaven. For me, it's my present life of the last fourteen years. I feel centered, have purpose, and enjoy my days.

Maybe you've been listening to people that feel qualified to give strangers unsolicited life advice and assumed some of their habits. You seem like a happy guy. Imagine me doing that with you:

"Please, Mr. Toucan. Why won't you follow me?"
"But I'm where I want to be."
"Why aren't you searching for more?"
"Because I'm content with what I have."
"So you think you have it made, huh?"
"Well, yeah. I have what I want. Wasn't that the purpose of learning and planning?"
"Why do you do this? You fight and fight with any excuse you can think of not to take the journey."
"No, I'm just not interested in what you're offering. Why do you think I should be without knowing me?"

 

[Bird123]

I think if a soul does not fulfill the promise the first time with death pressuring, it will always fail after that. There is no way of redemption after really. This is the constraints, there is no way.

I've explained why before.

Does this sound like the Intelligence of one capable of creating universes??? You underestimate God!!

So many people tell me how helpless God is. I have found God far from being helpless!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Link]

Does this sound like the Intelligence of one capable of creating universes??? You underestimate God!!

So many people tell me how helpless God is. I have found God far from being helpless!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Well, if God could create us his equals, he probably would. If he can make us ascend to him in a meaningful rewarding way without trying our free-will I'm sure he would.

But there are constraints by what he is. God is a free being and ascension to him is only possible by will. He can't force it. He only veils from creation because actions are for other than him, and that is out of his compassion, lest they perish and burn due to his overwhelming light.

There is no repeating God and time makes our features limited and constraints due that apply.

I wrote this after but you reacted before that:

How can it fulfill it, you say learn, but what if God bestowed his knowledge of himself and path before us coming to this world? If we fail the first time, how we going to pledge to God after? It won't be as sincere and would be tainted with failure from the life before. Or if we recall everything fully, it would be purely fear based with no room for love.

Fear of God right now is praiseworthy because God is hidden to a degree yet manifest. It takes love of God to fear him, since, it's easier just to do away with his reality and justice and try to escape his judgment that way. It takes humility. But if God is fully manifest, where is the room to be humble and fear God out of love? There is none at this point.

 

[Trailblazer]

What about it deserves to be called truth?

A better question has never been asked of @Bird123.
But don't expect an answer. Just expect more of the same.

 

[Ebionite]

So what is a person, in the context of that verse?

It's the physical representation of someone. It is the intent, or the heart that matters most in judgement.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's the physical representation of someone. It is the intent, or the heart that matters most in judgement.

Someone is a human being.
How is this related to judgment?

 

[Ebionite]

Someone is a human being.
How is this related to judgment?

Because human beings are judged by the state. The human condition goes back to Rome, when Cicero described those outside of the "civilization" of Rome as being subhuman. At common law people have natural rights, but human beings have human rights.

 

[Trailblazer]

Here's an example of YOU discussing scripture in which you don't believe. As you now see, sometimes, there's a reason to do that.

Yes, sometimes it is necessary to discuss scripture, to point out that I 'don't' believe it.

You recently called these two religions true religions, but now you advice disregarding one's holy book.

My definition of a true religion is a religion that was revealed by God through a Messenger of God.
I believe the Qur'an was revealed by Muhammad to scribes who memorized the verses and later they were compiled as the Qur'an.

I believe that Moses and Jesus were Messengers of God, but I do not believe that the Bible represents the words of Moses or Jesus, nor do any Bible scholars concur that it was written by them, yet it is all we have for the religions of Judaism and Christianity. In my opinion it is highly problematic that we cannot know who the authors of the Old Testament or the New Testament were or how they received what they claim is the Word of God.

The official position of the Baha'i Faith regarding the Bible and the Qur'an was presented by the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, Shoghi Effendi:

From Letters Written on Behalf of the Guardian:

...The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá'u'lláh
(28 July 1936 to a National Spiritual Assembly)

...we cannot be sure how much or how little of the four Gospels are accurate and include the words of Christ and His undiluted teachings, all we can be sure of, as Bahá'ís, is that what has been quoted by Bahá'u'lláh and the Master must be absolutely authentic. As many times passages in the Gospel of St. John are quoted we may assume that it is his Gospel and much of it accurate.
(23 January 1944 to an individual believer)

When 'Abdu'l-Bahá states we believe what is in the Bible, He means in substance. Not that we believe every word of it to be taken literally or that every word is the authentic saying of the Prophet.
(11 February 1944 to an individual believer)

We cannot be sure of the authenticity of any of the phrases in the Old or the New Testament. What we can be sure of is when such references or words are cited or quoted in either the Quran or the Bahá'í writings.
(4 July 1947 to an individual believer)

We have no way of substantiating the stories of the Old Testament other than references to them in our own teachings, so we cannot say exactly what happened at the battle of Jericho.
(25 November 1950 to an individual believer)

Except for what has been explained by Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá, we have no way of knowing what various symbolic allusions in the Bible mean.
(31 January 1955 to an individual believer)

The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments

 

[muhammad_isa]

Then you've misunderstood. I wouldn't rather believe anything except truth over non-truth, and I judge that empirically..

A contradiction..
I said "..you would rather only believe that the eternal reality can only be physical, and you "blot out" any other alternative."

..and you say the above. The word empirical means "verifiable by observation or experience", more or less.
..and you think that I choose to believe "supernatural" things without good reason?
You are the one who is mistaken, but you do not perceive.

I have my experience, and you have yours. That's about the size of it.

All of causally connected reality is nature..

You call it nature, brought about by some cosmic accident .. and I call it G-d.

 

[CG Didymus]

You recently called these two religions true religions, but now you advice disregarding one's holy book.

I argue with Baha'is constantly about this. They call all the major religions true and revealed by one and the same God, yet Baha'is don't believe the Scriptures of any of them, other than theirs and Islam, are accurate. So, what can we know about God and truth from the Scriptures of any of the religions prior to Islam? Not much.

But how accurate is the Quran?

The NT has two gospels tell of the birth of Jesus. But the Quran says that Mary gave birth to Jesus under a palm tree. Baha'is have to go with the Quran and say that the gospel stories aren't true.

Then the Quran has the young Jesus making birds out of clay and making them come alive and fly away. Do Baha'is believe that?

Islam and Baha'is say Ismael, not Issac, was the son taken to be sacrificed by Abraham. How would they know that? Do they believe God told him to go sacrifice either of his sons? If the Bible story about Abraham isn't accurate, then how do they know Abraham even really existed? They know, because their prophet said he existed. But also said that some things about Abraham, or Noah, Adam, even Jesus aren't true.

But isn't that how it goes, every knew religion takes and rejects whatever it wants, but then claims their stuff is, this time, the real truth.

 

[Link]

I argue with Baha'is constantly about this. They call all the major religions true and revealed by one and the same God, yet Baha'is don't believe the Scriptures of any of them, other than theirs and Islam, are accurate. So, what can we know about God and truth from the Scriptures of any of the religions prior to Islam? Not much.

But how accurate is the Quran?

The NT has two gospels tell of the birth of Jesus. But the Quran says that Mary gave birth to Jesus under a palm tree. Baha'is have to go with the Quran and say that the gospel stories aren't true.

Then the Quran has the young Jesus making birds out of clay and making them come alive and fly away. Do Baha'is believe that?

Islam and Baha'is say Ismael, not Issac, was the son taken to be sacrificed by Abraham. How would they know that? Do they believe God told him to go sacrifice either of his sons? If the Bible story about Abraham isn't accurate, then how do they know Abraham even really existed? They know, because their prophet said he existed. But also said that some things about Abraham, or Noah, Adam, even Jesus aren't true.

But isn't that how it goes, every knew religion takes and rejects whatever it wants, but then claims their stuff is, this time, the real truth.

Or it's correcting key points and confirming key points.

How to know which is true (previous or later), that's a good question.

I believe in Mohammad (s) and his Twelve Successors (a). I don't believe in the newer Bahai Prophets though.

 

[CG Didymus]

A contradiction..
I said "..you would rather only believe that the eternal reality can only be physical, and you "blot out" any other alternative."

..and you say the above. The word empirical means "verifiable by observation or experience", more or less.
..and you think that I choose to believe "supernatural" things without good reason?
You are the one who is mistaken, but you do not perceive.

Why do you reject some of the supernatural beliefs of some of the other religions? How do you know those things, like reincarnation, or incarnations of Gods from some sects of Hinduism, aren't true? How do you know that the belief of most Christians, that Jesus is God and that he died on the cross and resurrected, aren't true? Then Islam believes Satan is real, but Baha'is don't.

Religions aren't consistent. What can we do or should do to verify that what a religion claims are true or not? We can't ask a believer in the religion, because they believe simply because that is what their religion teaches. They "know" it's true, but so do the believers in the other religions. Everyone "knows" their religious beliefs are true.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

you think that I choose to believe "supernatural" things without good reason?

Yes, but the way I say it is that the belief is unjustified. Supernaturalism can only be believed by faith. Nobody has a good reason to believe in supernaturalism.

You call it nature, brought about by some cosmic accident .. and I call it G-d.

OK. I've called her Mother Nature.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, what can we know about God and truth from the Scriptures of any of the religions prior to Islam? Not much.

Not much, at least we cannot know much that can be trusted to be accurate, but we don't need to refer to old Books because a new Book has been revealed.

“Once in about a thousand years shall this City be renewed and readorned…. That City is none other than the Word of God revealed in every age and dispensation. In the days of Moses it was the Pentateuch; in the days of Jesus, the Gospel; in the days of Muhammad, the Messenger of God, the Qur’án; in this day, the Bayán; and in the Dispensation of Him Whom God will make manifest, His own Book—the Book unto which all the Books of former Dispensations must needs be referred, the Book that standeth amongst them all transcendent and supreme.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 269-270

 

[ppp]

You can say that again!
One problem with the Old Testament is that it turned God into a person.
It is a serious problem and it cannot be corrected.

That just means that your god is not their god.