What does it mean to be a better person?

[Trailblazer]

What do you mean you wish you were half as good as those people? Which people on the news are you talking about and what is it they do which makes you feel you are only half as good?

I was thinking of people who rescue other people, some who are on the front lines in natural disasters, those who put their lives on the line, including firefighters and law enforcement, but there are also individuals who make sacrifices for other people. I cannot think of any examples off the top of my head but I know I have seen these stories in the news.

 

[wandering peacefully]

I was thinking of people who rescue other people, some who are on the front lines in natural disasters, those who put their lives on the line, including firefighters and law enforcement, but there are also individuals who make sacrifices for other people. I cannot think of any examples off the top of my head but I know I have seen these stories in the news.

Oh yes, I see. But that you do not do those things doesn't make you lesser of a good person. Everyone does what they can for the most part. Yes, there are so many brave and strong people who spend their entire lives in service to humanity and the planet. Amazing individuals for sure.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh yes, I see. But that you do not do those things doesn't make you lesser of a good person. Everyone does what they can for the most part. Yes, there are so many brave and strong people who spend their entire lives in service to humanity and the planet. Amazing individuals for sure.

Thanks. That's true, we can only do what we have the capacity to do. I have many limitations owing to my childhood upbringing and my genetic predisposition, but I also have some things that I can offer others because of my inherited characteristics and life experiences. I push myself to do what I can with what I have been given. That is all I can do.

 

[Certainty For Eternity]

What is interesting is that a few of us in this thread have actually detected that we do have a moral compass to guide us independent of God. We can tell what is the baseline morality for most people by actually observing human behaviour. We are social creatures therefore our morality revolves around what supports the benefit of community.
I am of the viewpoint that we can use religion to gauge how man has evolved in morality. So later religions tend to be more moral (from our standpoint) as a whole than earlier ones, while dangerous fringe cults get judged as immoral. Even religions such as Christianity reveal that followers interpret the text based on their current morality. So I would say that Jesus was ahead of his time morally. The church took a while to catch up with him gradually interpreting the text in a more moral way as time went by. So for instance the bible used to be used as an excuse to wage wars and enslave people whereas these days it is used to refute those practices.
As for God being a moral compass, and you being a Christian, do you then think it was moral for God to command that his people do the below:
1 Samuel 15:2–3
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”
Also could you please show how society has degenerated morally because they have turned away from God compared to how society was more moral when it turned towards God?

My Reply
Firstly we must understand that we are made in the image of God. That is why we are so precious to Him. We are made in His image in this way, that we are moral beings, with a sense of justice, triune beings in that God consists of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, as we are triune beings, Spirit, soul and the body. Other creations, such as dogs, elephants, fish or trees or grass are not made in the image of God. Everything living on the face of this planet will die sometime, nobody gets out of this planet alive. When animals die, they cease to exist. However human beings who are made in the image of God, when we die, our souls and our spirits go on eternally to exist, although, before we were born, we did not exist.
Now you mention the instance when the people of God were to utterly destroy the people of Amalek because they refused the people of Israel when they were coming into the Promised Land. This annihilation of peoples is nothing new. I would give you the sudden execution of Nadab and Abihu by God in Leviticus 10:1-5, the command by God to annihilate of the Canaanites as recounted in Deuteronomy 7:1-2. There are several things we need to consider:-
1) That God is perfect, and if He is indeed perfect, He makes no mistakes. Also being perfect, He is able to look further ahead and to see what we cannot see and to know what would happen if these events did not happen.
2) God is holy. In His Heaven there is no imperfection nor blemish. His character then dictates that He hates sin, and must punish sin. That is why He sent His only Son into this world to die for sin, and to make away back for us to reunite us to God. It is written that ‘God is love’, but at the same time, we human beings have to choose God. God does not want anyone in Heaven who does not want to be there. That is why there is a Spiritual rubbish dump called ‘Hell.’
3) that is why when it comes to God commanding that whole races of people be annihilated, it is because of sin. He knows that if they were allowed to continue to exist, they would corrupt the morals of the people of Israel. The holiness of His people, Israel, is very important to God. They are to be holy as He is holy.
4) When we aghast at this seemingly horrible command of cruelty and we try to judge God, I would suggest that this comes about because we don’t understand the character of God. If we had some understanding of the longsuffering and the patience of God, we would understand. But we must understand this, that when we get to Heaven and everything will be perfect, and we will have full knowledge, we will be amazed at the graciousness and the longsuffering of God and we will love Him all the more.
5) Lastly, and this is most important. The whole of the Bible is a book of the whole of life for the whole of the human race from beginning to end. All the way from Genesis (creation) to Revelation Chapters 21, 22. (Home with God in Heaven). It is all about the free will of man. The decision of Adam and Eve to rebel, all the way to Heaven which is filled with souls that have voted with their hearts to love God. So when it comes to the Amalekites, they have made their free will decision to embrace idolatry. Even though man’s will is not perfect and he makes mistakes in his decision making, God still respects their decisions made. This fact is evident right throughout the history of the Bible. People are free to make their decisions to love or reject God, but they are not free from the consequences of those decisions. Hope this helps. Certainty for eternity.

 

[Samael_Khan]

My Reply
Firstly we must understand that we are made in the image of God. That is why we are so precious to Him. We are made in His image in this way, that we are moral beings, with a sense of justice, triune beings in that God consists of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, as we are triune beings, Spirit, soul and the body. Other creations, such as dogs, elephants, fish or trees or grass are not made in the image of God. Everything living on the face of this planet will die sometime, nobody gets out of this planet alive. When animals die, they cease to exist. However human beings who are made in the image of God, when we die, our souls and our spirits go on eternally to exist, although, before we were born, we did not exist.
Now you mention the instance when the people of God were to utterly destroy the people of Amalek because they refused the people of Israel when they were coming into the Promised Land. This annihilation of peoples is nothing new. I would give you the sudden execution of Nadab and Abihu by God in Leviticus 10:1-5, the command by God to annihilate of the Canaanites as recounted in Deuteronomy 7:1-2.

Yes, we have a sense of justice. The irony is that that sense of justice makes us view God as unjust in many cases. And where do you get the idea that animals don't have a soul? Also your statement that humans are triune beings is arbitrary because it isn't biblical as far as I know. The Bible actually says," body and soul" (matthew 10:28). I would say mind and body. We have no evidence that a soul exists. So I would hold Ecclesiastes view on that.

1) That God is perfect, and if He is indeed perfect, He makes no mistakes. Also being perfect, He is able to look further ahead and to see what we cannot see and to know what would happen if these events did not happen.

How can we gauge whether God is perfect or not? Describe what perfect means please.

2) God is holy. In His Heaven there is no imperfection nor blemish. His character then dictates that He hates sin, and must punish sin. That is why He sent His only Son into this world to die for sin, and to make away back for us to reunite us to God. It is written that ‘God is love’, but at the same time, we human beings have to choose God. God does not want anyone in Heaven who does not want to be there. That is why there is a Spiritual rubbish dump called ‘Hell.’

This I understand. But religions in general revolve around the idea that the soul will survive death and live in a heaven or afterlife. Most people want to be in heaven. The problem who has the ability to grant such a desire.

3) that is why when it comes to God commanding that whole races of people be annihilated, it is because of sin. He knows that if they were allowed to continue to exist, they would corrupt the morals of the people of Israel. The holiness of His people, Israel, is very important to God. They are to be holy as He is holy.

Problem here. I understand God killing people. As the creator he can do whatever he wishes with his creation much like we do with our own creations as creators. If the creation doesn't suit the creators wishes then the creation is either fixed or destroyed. What I have an issue with here is that he asks humans to kill others, even innocents such as babies and animals which have no sin. Knowing what we know about the affects killing has on killers (such as PTSD) why would God ask his people to kill others? Also, he asked them to do it, knowing that they would innevitably be corrupted. He could have just eradicated the nations himself and he would have done a better job.

4) When we aghast at this seemingly horrible command of cruelty and we try to judge God, I would suggest that this comes about because we don’t understand the character of God. If we had some understanding of the longsuffering and the patience of God, we would understand. But we must understand this, that when we get to Heaven and everything will be perfect, and we will have full knowledge, we will be amazed at the graciousness and the longsuffering of God and we will love Him all the more.

So he gives us a sense of justice, yet when we use it we end up seeing that his ways are unjust? That is ironic. So then, are you saying that we should do what God tells us to do even if we don't understand why we must do it or it doesn't make sense to us?

5) Lastly, and this is most important. The whole of the Bible is a book of the whole of life for the whole of the human race from beginning to end. All the way from Genesis (creation) to Revelation Chapters 21, 22. (Home with God in Heaven). It is all about the free will of man. The decision of Adam and Eve to rebel, all the way to Heaven which is filled with souls that have voted with their hearts to love God. So when it comes to the Amalekites, they have made their free will decision to embrace idolatry. Even though man’s will is not perfect and he makes mistakes in his decision making, God still respects their decisions made. This fact is evident right throughout the history of the Bible. People are free to make their decisions to love or reject God, but they are not free from the consequences of those decisions. Hope this helps. Certainty for eternity.

Actually Revelations 21 and 22 states that God will be at home with us on earth. New Jerusalem descends to the earth.

The problem here again is that the Amalekites had no reason to believe that the Israelite's God was true in the first place.

So I will ask this:

Theoretically, if God asked you to kill a baby today, would you do it?

By the way, I have no problem with a creator doing whatever he wishes. We would be under his dictates because he owns us. That is the beauty of the message of the bible, that God could have just killed us for being defects but he wanted to fix us instead. Hence grace. The problem is that Christians don't actually agree with God morally in practice.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

From all perspectives, whether theological or not, what does it mean to be a better person?

By this I mean, how do we know that we are progressing or digressing as human beings morally?

Well I think part of it involves going back to trusting our senses, and eschewing many of layers that have been paved over raw and natural human morality, which I envisage to be good. Some of it has to do with going back to what our senses tell us, and from them we can see that every organism wants to feel a balance, and that balance feels like contentment. Therefore, we should work on getting back to being balanced, and morality can play an important role toward that end, in trying to satisfy the senses back into the tuning of homeostasis. I think maybe it starts with the individual, and then spreads to the environment. But once it's in the environment, this natural morality feeds back, and can better serve more people to get to that balance. What you ask though is complicated, and I feel that I'm only approaching it from one general angle. You most likely would want to hear more about what this would mean practically, and I haven't reached good broad answers to that end

 

[Certainty For Eternity]

My Reply
1) The irony is that that sense of justice makes us view God as unjust in many cases.
We must understand that when we view God as being unjust, it is the flawed endeavouring to judge the flawless, the imperfect endeavouring to judge the Perfect and it simply cannot be done. God is able to judge perfectly because He knows everything perfectly, even the thoughts and the intentions of the hearts of men, whereas men are unable to do that and we get it wrong often times. Even with law courts with learned and educated men presiding, we get it wrong.

2) And where do you get the idea that animals don't have a soul?
No I didn’t say that, if you read it again. It is generally held that animals do have souls, but only in the sense that they have personalities. A dog could have a litter of pups, and each pup would have their own and individual personalities. But when an animal dies, everything about that animal dies with it.
But with respect to man, God plainly teaches that we do have a body (our fleshly vehicle in this life), a soul (who we are as a personality, which is eternal) and an eternal spirit in which we have fellowship with God (1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV) 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. And again:-
Romans 8:16 (KJV)
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And again:-
Philippians 3:3 (KJV)
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

3) How can we gauge whether God is perfect or not? Describe what perfect means please.
‘Perfect’ simply means that there is no more room for improvement. There is nothing that God can do better. Scripture declares that Jesus Christ is perfectly holy, perfectly loving of His heavenly Father and of the world He came to redeem, perfectly forgiving of sins and merciful to those who come to Him, perfectly compassionate, perfectly faithful, and perfectly prayerful, He cannot be defeated or manipulated.– John 12-21.

4) This I understand. But religions in general revolve around the idea that the soul will survive death and live in a heaven or afterlife. Most people want to be in heaven. The problem who has the ability to grant such a desire.
No-one can work their way into Heaven. John 14:6 (KJV) says
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The way to Heaven is through a person. If you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for your salvation, repent of your sins, you are on your way to Heaven. Christ should know, He created this world and He has created the next world.
John 14:2-3 (KJV)
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
AND
1 John 5:11-13 (KJV)
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

5) As the creator he can do whatever he wishes with his creation much like we do with our own creations as creators. If the creation doesn't suit the creators wishes then the creation is either fixed or destroyed
Not so. That notion is prevalent amongst Christians that God can do anything. If you read the Bible, you will come to understand that God is perfect. Therefore the logic is that He cannot do anything that is imperfect. The principle here is that God always behaves according to His character. He is always consistent. Imagine if God behaved erratically, no-one could trust Him. But God is the same, yesterday, today and forever. (Hebrews 13:8). Therefore God cannot do anything stupid, He cannot stuff up, He cannot make mistakes, and He knows what He is doing all the time. God is holy and without sin, therefore He is not capable of committing sin.

6) Theoretically, if God asked you to kill a baby today, would you do it?
The first thing I would consider is that God made me and the baby. The only reason we exist is because of His grace. Secondly He is the Lord of life and death. We only have to look to the cross, to see that Christ died on the cross for our sins, He was buried and three days later He rose from the dead. So therefore He is the Lord of life and the dead. Thirdly, we should be reminded of the wickedness of man who kills hundreds of thousands of unborn babies every single year, they are sacrificed on the altar of mankind’s selfishness, simply because these unborn children are an inconvenience, and it is done legally. Fourthly, we must be reminded that little children are precious in the eyes of God, they have not reached the age of accountability. I firmly believe that the unborn and little children are in Heaven. Christ gives us a strong hint about His attitude to little children when He instructs:-
Matthew 19:14 (KJV)
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Fifthly, if I thought that God was commanding me to kill a baby, I think that I would be definitely asking for a number of confirmations from God before I would take it seriously.

 

[Ancient Soul]

From all perspectives, whether theological or not, what does it mean to be a better person?

By this I mean, how do we know that we are progressing or digressing as human beings morally?

And, how do we define morality? Is it merely a social construct or is there an innate morality in humans that we are progressively discovering through religion and debate? Is it maybe something implanted in us by God?

But, be warned, if someone says that we must obey a certain morality that a God defines through a Holy Book just because the Holy Book says so, that someone has to first prove that their Holy Book is undoubtedly sent down by God. Because, if we are to follow something a book says just because it says so, then we have to prove that that book has validity.

So it would be best to prove the logical reason why a said religions morality is correct and should be followed by not appealing to the religion itself.

For myself morality was something "implanted" within me by God during a spiritual experience I had when just a child. The same for empathy and compassion.

 

[Ancient Soul]

We’ll just have to disagree. I think anyone who is honest knows better, while people can be good and do good things, everyone often does wrong things or does not do what should be done. Just think of all those Nazis who treated the Jews so cruelly or violently killed Jews as if they were not killing humans beings. Yet, these same Nazis went home and did good things for their families or neighbors.

True, some people hide their evilness very well.

Like all those Catholic pedophile priests who raped their own parishioners children while pretending to speak for "god".

 

[Milton Platt]

From all perspectives, whether theological or not, what does it mean to be a better person?

By this I mean, how do we know that we are progressing or digressing as human beings morally?

And, how do we define morality? Is it merely a social construct or is there an innate morality in humans that we are progressively discovering through religion and debate? Is it maybe something implanted in us by God?

But, be warned, if someone says that we must obey a certain morality that a God defines through a Holy Book just because the Holy Book says so, that someone has to first prove that their Holy Book is undoubtedly sent down by God. Because, if we are to follow something a book says just because it says so, then we have to prove that that book has validity.

So it would be best to prove the logical reason why a said religions morality is correct and should be followed by not appealing to the religion itself.

One could say that there is an innate sense of morality in humans, just as there is in other primates. But that is an over-simplification. We have developed the power of reasoning to a much higher level as well as language and writing, We live in large complex societies which interact globally. Because of this, we have come to agree on certain basic moral "truths" such as not murdering or raping and have developed means to isolate from society those who transgress against those rules.

 

[Milton Platt]

You might well be. Probably are.

So what?

Being a 'better person' involves two things, I think; what you think of yourself, and what others think of you. That is, are you obeying your internal moral and ethical standards as you perceive them, and do you do better at that every day?

....and...when others look at you, can they say 'this is a person who not only does not harm anybody, but someone I can trust to help me if I need it?

If both things are true of you, then you are a 'better person.' The question is, are you better today than you were yesterday?

That sounds like a pretty shaky foundation for "better person" Neither what you think of yourself nor what others think of you determines if you are actually a "better person".

 

[InChrist]

True, some people hide their evilness very well.

Like all those Catholic pedophile priests who raped their own parishioners children while pretending to speak for "god".

Exactly, so absolutely evil. Jesus had a few very condemning words to say about those kind of people and especially those who harm children.

 

[dianaiad]

That sounds like a pretty shaky foundation for "better person" Neither what you think of yourself nor what others think of you determines if you are actually a "better person".

Depends upon why they 'think of you' one way or another, or why you think of yourself as 'better.'

It's called 'works' in a bunch of scriptures, I believe.

 

[Milton Platt]

Depends upon why they 'think of you' one way or another, or why you think of yourself as 'better.'

It's called 'works' in a bunch of scriptures, I believe.

And there is my point......it matters what you do, not what others think of you. Hitler thought he was a good person, and huge numbers of people thought he was just wonderful.

 

[dianaiad]

And there is my point......it matters what you do, not what others think of you. Hitler thought he was a good person, and huge numbers of people thought he was just wonderful.

Wow.

That was one of the quickest descents into Godwin's Law I've ever seen.

 

[Samael_Khan]

For myself morality was something "implanted" within me by God during a spiritual experience I had when just a child. The same for empathy and compassion.

What type of spiritual experience did you have and how did it change you?

 

[Samael_Khan]

One could say that there is an innate sense of morality in humans, just as there is in other primates. But that is an over-simplification. We have developed the power of reasoning to a much higher level as well as language and writing, We live in large complex societies which interact globally. Because of this, we have come to agree on certain basic moral "truths" such as not murdering or raping and have developed means to isolate from society those who transgress against those rules.

I agree.

 

[Ayjaydee]

You might well be. Probably are.

So what?

Being a 'better person' involves two things, I think; what you think of yourself, and what others think of you. That is, are you obeying your internal moral and ethical standards as you perceive them, and do you do better at that every day?

....and...when others look at you, can they say 'this is a person who not only does not harm anybody, but someone I can trust to help me if I need it?

If both things are true of you, then you are a 'better person.' The question is, are you better today than you were yesterday?

Better than who or what?

 

[Ayjaydee]

From all perspectives, whether theological or not, what does it mean to be a better person?

By this I mean, how do we know that we are progressing or digressing as human beings morally?

And, how do we define morality? Is it merely a social construct or is there an innate morality in humans that we are progressively discovering through religion and debate? Is it maybe something implanted in us by God?

But, be warned, if someone says that we must obey a certain morality that a God defines through a Holy Book just because the Holy Book says so, that someone has to first prove that their Holy Book is undoubtedly sent down by God. Because, if we are to follow something a book says just because it says so, then we have to prove that that book has validity.

So it would be best to prove the logical reason why a said religions morality is correct and should be followed by not appealing to the religion itself.

Better than who or what?

 

[Samael_Khan]

Better than who or what?

Self improvement. How does one make themselves better than they are now and what does that mean.