What Does It Mean To Be A Pagan?

[SalixIncendium]

Capital P, this time.

I define the term as a follower of a nature-based revival religion. A Neo-pagan, if you will.

 

[Quintessence]

I would appreciate a thread where you wrote those pages.

It's a taller ask than it would've been when this stuff was in my brain more recently - I did most of the research when I was in undergrad and that's like... longer ago now than I sometimes like to think about haha (I'm turning the big 4-0 this year... AAAAH!). My old notes might be around somewhere...

Though this does remind me there's been some new research in Pagan studies that I haven't kept up on.

As a semi-aside, it used to be I'd point folks to the shmickipedia pages for a good overview on contemporary Paganism. Not anymore. It is simply beyond the pale that their editors made the idiotic decision to fail to properly capitalize. I can't even stand reading their entry on it anymore because my brain just goes "REEEEE" at all the grammatical errors. Contemporary Paganism is not "paganism." Even the flipping New Age movement gets capitalized correctly. Seriously, schmickpedia, get your act together.

 

[Rival]

It's a taller ask than it would've been when this stuff was in my brain more recently - I did most of the research when I was in undergrad and that's like... longer ago now than I sometimes like to think about haha (I'm turning the big 4-0 this year... AAAAH!). My old notes might be around somewhere...

Though this does remind me there's been some new research in Pagan studies that I haven't kept up on.

As a semi-aside, it used to be I'd point folks to the shmickipedia pages for a good overview on contemporary Paganism. Not anymore. It is simply beyond the pale that their editors made the idiotic decision to fail to properly capitalize. I can't even stand reading their entry on it anymore because my brain just goes "REEEEE" at all the grammatical errors. Contemporary Paganism is not "paganism." Even the flipping New Age movement gets capitalized correctly. Seriously, schmickpedia, get your act together.

Is there a Pagan wiki? That would be interesting. Made by and for Pagans.

 

[1137]

The term has been taken back by the people for whom it was used as a term of offence by Christians. Modern people have done the same with the word 'queer' in my lifetime. Pagan is certainly a broad term and I agree too vague to be meaningful at times, but I would submit that culturally it still has muster and is used by a large enough group of people who are comfortable with the vagueness of it for the vagueness itself to actually... have become meaningful? Because the traditions are so diverse but we prefer to see ourselves as a group rather than tribally separated, it can be useful. 'Christian' is useful despite there being multiple, vastly different kinds.

Hey fair enough. So I guess the question really is what are the properties of paganism? Like some might call me pagan but I don't use the term, I now honestly wonder which of us is right? I definitely get what you're saying though, something similar happened with the term Satanist (though it went so far full circle it is more meaningless again haha).

 

[Rival]

So I guess the question really is what are the properties of paganism?

Yeah

 

[1137]

Yeah

I'm taking this class on dehumanization right now, and a huge debate is if the concept/word adds anything to our understanding of why humans are bad to each other. While in no way a negative thing like dehumanization, I might say paganism is in the same place. Mind you I don't lean either way and have no bias on this debate related to paganism, but I think it may be in a similar position. Does the word "pagan" add something to our description of a belief? I'm honestly not sure, hadn't thought about it until this thread (which makes it a good thread).

 

[Rival]

I'm taking this class on dehumanization right now, and a huge debate is if the concept/word adds anything to our understanding of why humans are bad to each other. While in no way a negative thing like dehumanization, I might say paganism is in the same place. Mind you I don't lean either way and have no bias on this debate related to paganism, but I think it may be in a similar position. Does the word "pagan" add something to our description of a belief? I'm honestly not sure, hadn't thought about it until this thread (which makes it a good thread).

If people are choosing to use it as a large group, I think it's fair to say it's lost its negative meaning. Certainly these days most people, at least where I am, accept that modern Pagans exist and see it as a much better alternative to the traditional Church. It may be seen as a bit weird and kooky, but not negatively. I imagine the US has a much different take than Europe.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is there a Pagan wiki? That would be interesting. Made by and for Pagans.

... or pagans, or perhaps neo-pagans with a scattering of Neo-pagans, but probably no Assyrian animists or Dutch pantheists.

 

[1137]

If people are choosing to use it as a large group, I think it's fair to say it's lost is negative meaning. Certainly these days most people, at least where I am, accept that modern Pagans exist and see it as a much better alternative to the traditional Church. It may be seen as a bit weird and kooky, but not negatively. I imagine the US has a much different take than Europe.

Note: please keep in mind I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here.

I definitely agree it shouldn't be seen negatively. Like if someone called me pagan as an insult it would work more as a compliment haha. But what does it actually mean when taken positively? Is it just polytheism? Is it revival? Does a pagan have specific beliefs and practices I, also as a revival polytheist but not a self identified pagan, do not? Or am I in the wrong by not taking the label, am I pagan and don't realize it? And if so is it important for me to realize it?

 

[Rival]

... or pagans, or perhaps neo-pagans with a scattering of Neo-pagans, but probably no Assyrian animists or Dutch pantheists.

Middle Eastern Paganism would be an interesting one. I'd like to hear lots of different voices.

 

[Rival]

Note: please keep in mind I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here.

I definitely agree it shouldn't be seen negatively. Like if someone called me pagan as an insult it would work more as a compliment haha. But what does it actually mean when taken positively? Is it just polytheism? Is it revival? Does a pagan have specific beliefs and practices I, also as a revival polytheist but not a self identified pagan, do not? Or am I in the wrong by not taking the label, am I pagan and don't realize it? And if so is it important for me to realize it?

I think the positive connotations come from free thinking, lack of organised religion, equality etc. It tends to be associated with modern values. I don't think one ought use it if one doesn't think of oneself that way, certainly the people who practiced it originally gave themselves no such name. I just find it helpful as a descriptor, regardless. And as I said, here in England it's seen neutrally to positively. I wouldn't be telling anyone which labels to pick, though.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I see the term 'pagan' to be on roughly the same level as "Abrahamic" or "Dharmic"...there's lots of room under the label...

Capital P Pagan is a subset of pagan, perhaps equivalent to "Christianity" in a rough order of magnitude.

There are lots and lots of paganisms, and lots and lots of Paganisms...

By itself, I don't see it as a very useful term, maybe in certain discussions...but others' mileage may vary...

 

[Quintessence]

If people are choosing to use it as a large group, I think it's fair to say it's lost its negative meaning. Certainly these days most people, at least where I am, accept that modern Pagans exist and see it as a much better alternative to the traditional Church. It may be seen as a bit weird and kooky, but not negatively. I imagine the US has a much different take than Europe.

This'll be something to follow. The current political situation in the United States is rekindling some intolerance - the Wild Hunt has been following it a bit and has some articles up in relation to that. For example, many "religious freedom" and "parental rights" initiatives are bad for religious minorities in general, Pagans or otherwise. We aren't quite back into a full blown "satanic panic" yet but as Manny over at the Wild Hunt observes, the fuel for it is absolutely there right now (Editorial: There is Plenty of Panic Fuel - Editorial, Paganism, Perspectives, Religion, The Wild Hunt, Witchcraft). Paganism has largely stayed out of the crossfire somehow, but it is certainly vulnerable.

 

[Rival]

This'll be something to follow. The current political situation in the United States is rekindling some intolerance - the Wild Hunt has been following it a bit and has some articles up in relation to that. For example, many "religious freedom" and "parental rights" initiatives are bad for religious minorities in general, Pagans or otherwise. We aren't quite back into a full blown "satanic panic" yet but as Manny over at the Wild Hunt observes, the fuel for it is absolutely there right now (Editorial: There is Plenty of Panic Fuel - Editorial, Paganism, Perspectives, Religion, The Wild Hunt, Witchcraft). Paganism has largely stayed out of the crossfire somehow, but it is certainly vulnerable.

Shamanism, pagans and wiccans: trends from the England and Wales census

There are more pagans, fewer French speakers and 2.5 million households are of more than one ethnic group

www.theguardian.com

Shamanism is the largest growing faith, apparently, in England and Wales.

 

[1137]

We aren't quite back into a full blown "satanic panic"

Don't worry almost there. TST and CoS will really help accelerate it.

 

[Quintessence]

Don't worry almost there. TST and CoS will really help accelerate it.

Maybe, but there are definitely a lot of folks who appreciate their efforts to point out the hypocrisy of "religious freedom" policies in this country. I love this stuff so much:

How the Satanic Temple is using ‘abortion rituals’ to claim religious liberty against the Texas’ ‘heartbeat bill’

The Satanic Temple, a nontheistic group, is invoking the Religious Freedom Restoration Act to challenge Texas’ new anti-abortion law.

theconversation.com

 

[1137]

Maybe, but there are definitely a lot of folks who appreciate their efforts to point out the hypocrisy of "religious freedom" policies in this country. I love this stuff so much:

How the Satanic Temple is using ‘abortion rituals’ to claim religious liberty against the Texas’ ‘heartbeat bill’

The Satanic Temple, a nontheistic group, is invoking the Religious Freedom Restoration Act to challenge Texas’ new anti-abortion law.

theconversation.com

Yes TST definitely has good hype men, if only they actually helped anyone and were well intentioned. They appear more interested in suing members and spreading SRA nonsense like abortion rituals.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes TST definitely has good hype men, if only they actually helped anyone and were well intentioned. They appear more interested in suing members and spreading SRA nonsense like abortion rituals.

Doug is another con artist like Anton. I may make a thread about him at some point. He's a very weird (in the bad way) person. He has a ton of pseudonyms to confuse things further, as well.

 

[LuisDantas]

Just to provide an outsider's take for commentary, I think of a pagan as anyone who self-identifies as such and is connected to some form of tradition that takes responsibility for its own traditions.

I am aware that many are reconstructions of some form, and that there are definitely solitary practicioners.

I tend to assume that paganisms involve some degree of nature appreciation, ethnic traits and personal responsibility for the beliefs and practices, but I strongly suspect that there are significant exceptions for each of those qualities.

 

[1137]

Just to provide an outsider's take for commentary, I think of a pagan as anyone who self-identifies as such and is connected to some form of tradition that takes responsibility for its own traditions.

I am aware that many are reconstructions of some form, and that there are definitely solitary practicioners.

I tend to assume that paganisms involve some degree of nature appreciation, ethnic traits and personal responsibility for the beliefs and practices, but I strongly suspect that there are significant exceptions for each of those qualities.

Dude I think nature appreciation is a great point. While I enjoy nature I see doing so almost as blasphemy against a world clearly meant to make us miserable. In the end nature is great now but I overall don't care about or for it in a very gnostic sense. Maybe this is why I don't take the title of pagan