What Does It Mean To Be A Pagan?

[Quintessence]

Pagan culture exists and it is pretty strong. I just think it's invisible or kooky to many people who can't take it seriously for some reason.

This is super ironic considering the staying power of "Celtic" even in the present era. Challenges of defining what "Celtic" means notwithstanding, you can walk into places like Walmart and Target (or other equivalent nationwide shopping titans) and find Celtic stuff... haha. Last time I was in the local bookstore, I was shocked that they had a Pagan section basically right up front and center in the store. It was really, really weird to see since I remember 20 years ago that stuff always being stuffed in the back of the store in an out-of-the-way place.

 

[JustGeorge]

Yes, this has a huge hand in it. Pagans tend to be very active on such issues, especially as a rejection of Christianity etc. I'm surprised few have raised this. I'm much more conservative, but this ought to be mentioned. Pagan culture exists and it is pretty strong. I just think it's invisible or kooky to many people who can't take it seriously for some reason.

I cant even say I'm a conservative; merely a person with some conservative leanings in some spots, and I sometimes found myself uncomfortable with Pagan culture during my years with it.

 

[Rival]

I cant even say I'm a conservative; merely a person with some conservative leanings in some spots, and I sometimes found myself uncomfortable with Pagan culture during my years with it.

Yes, I'm not in there with much of the 60s culture, but I like the religious aspects.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Functionally, it seems to refer to anything with a specific focus on nature, pre-Christian culture and spirituality, or New Age, primitive, or magic-based traditions or practices.

 

[syo]

I'm talking in the modern sense.

The anti-christian notion is too strong. If you can see the lies in christianity, you are pagan.

 

[LuisDantas]

The anti-christian notion is too strong. If you can see the lies in christianity, you are pagan.

Is that a perception that you criticize, or do you propose that this is a valid parameter to decide whether someone is a pagan?

 

[1213]

This would be a definition of 'pagan' with a lower case 'p.'

What do you think it then means with a upper case p?

 

[SalixIncendium]

What do you think it then means with a upper case p?

See post #21 in this thread.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I, for one, am glad that we've cleared this up.

 

[syo]

Is that a perception that you criticize, or do you propose that this is a valid parameter to decide whether someone is a pagan?

Propose.

 

[1213]

I define the term as a follower of a nature-based revival religion. A Neo-pagan, if you will.

I think that fits to the definition I gave.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I think that fits to the definition I gave.

As I said, all Pagans are pagan, but not all pagans are Pagan.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

More often than not nature is trying to kill you. I think the original nature reverence was fear not awe. The ancients considered civilisation and being out of the state of nature their greatest achievement. They wanted to control nature, not have it control them.

I don't know, I think maybe it might be more about a collaboration in a way, granted however, that it is with a very serious and potentially dangerous force. We see that in the Tarot, the Strength card features a woman who looks to be controlling the beast. However, in the later archetypes in the Tarot, the Sun, Moon, and Star seem to feature humankind as being embedded in a kind of nature they have learned to live in

To shift to the analysis of a Pagan story, I believe I had posted about the saga of the Volsungs, where Sigurd eats the heart of the dragon, and can understand the speech of birds. I think that echoes the values of the Strength Arcana, in a sense

But to come to your point about fear, it is well taken. Just the other day, I saw an article about a women who ate bad tilapia, and that caused her to need to have all her limbs amputated. I have had that story stuck in my head since last night, as I just wonder at the horror of ill luck, where it seems that nature got the better of a person for no good reason at all. The sheer horror of going through the process of nature trying to devour you in that way, and having it permanently change your life, just seems so merciless.

Most religions dream and speculate about there being something transcendent in a person, that cannot be merely devoured by external, and perhaps internal forces, whether that involves the transcendent soul, or a soul-like quality joining the transcendent soul of nature or our universe. Or it could involve 'mere' attitudes that one gains, that prove somehow to be very powerful.

I don't know, I guess I am just not there yet in my understanding. I guess I try to wrestle with nature. I guess I am afraid of it a little bit. When I do breathing meditation in the woods at sunset, my mind does think about the possibility of there being a bear smelling for me. And I so think to myself, that I should rush to finish up, so I can get out of there. When I do cold exposure, I am aware that I am working with a force of nature that does not care what my lower brain seems to want, which is comfort.

I guess I continue with the hope that there is either collaboration, or alternatively a harnessing of nature, to be gained. But when I turn my mind to how humans can act, I think I might be more, if not at least equally, fearful of them

 

[amorphous_constellation]

And just to add one more little thing, I would posit that awe is a transcendent quality across time, in perhaps a somewhat direct contradistinction to fear, when the subject is nature. For example, a modern person and a person 10,000 years ago might have an identical sensation of awe, if they were camping on a beautiful mountain, with a wonderous and clear view of the stars, where a comet flashes through the sky. Or when both people come to the sight of a majestic waterfall, or sunrise or sunset. Those non-dangerous moments then seem to elicit a transcendent sort of wonder, through time

 

[paarsurrey]

OK.



No, simply because I have no idea to which traditions you're referring.

Were I to rely on Wikipedia, I would learn:

During and after the Middle Ages, the term paganism was applied to any non-Christian religion, and the term presumed a belief in false gods. The origin of the application of the term "pagan" to polytheism is debated. In the 19th century, paganism was adopted as a self-descriptor by members of various artistic groups inspired by the ancient world. In the 20th century, it came to be applied as a self-descriptor by practitioners of modern paganism, modern pagan movements and Polytheistic reconstructionists. Modern pagan traditions often incorporate beliefs or practices, such as nature worship, that are different from those of the largest world religions.​

​

Contemporary knowledge of old pagan religions and beliefs comes from several sources, including anthropological field research records, the evidence of archaeological artifacts, and the historical accounts of ancient writers regarding cultures known to Classical antiquity. Most modern pagan religions existing today express a worldview that is pantheistic, panentheistic, polytheistic, or animistic, but some are monotheistic.​

If you tell me that you're a pagan, I'll take you at your word, but I'll know absolutely nothing about you save for the fact that you're neither an atheist or agnostic.

I should also confess that I'll probably view your choice of label as, in part, an affectation -- an attempt to communicate "I'm different and cool." I recognize that this may well be an uninformed presumption.

" but some (pagans) are monotheistic. "
for instance, please?

Regards

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

for instance, please?

I referenced Wikipedia, which provides at least two relevant footnotes. Please do your own homework.

 

[The Hammer]

The ancients considered civilisation and being out of the state of nature their greatest achievement. They wanted to control nature, not have it control them.

And I think this is absolutely where we went wrong.