What does it mean to "deny" Jesus, according to the NT?

[Shermana]

In Zechariah 14, it says that the Egyptians will go up to celebrate Succoth or they will face draught. It's arguable as to what Ezek 43 is referring to and any answer is speculative, but perhaps he'd like to explain at what point the Egyptians went up to celebrate Succoth?

As for the Epistle to the Hebrews, that's a whole another issue, we don't even know who wrote it. Even Luther thought it was dubious. I have a whole thread on it on how it was likely written by those in the early anti-Judaizing schism.

 

[sincerly]

In Zechariah 14, it says that the Egyptians will go up to celebrate Succoth or they will face draught. It's arguable as to what Ezek 43 is referring to and any answer is speculative, but perhaps he'd like to explain at what point the Egyptians went up to celebrate Succoth?

Hi Shermana, Vs.16, "And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. "
Vss.4-11, are prophecies from the Return of Jesus Christ to the end of Time.
There has been a period of time that false doctrines has obscured the light of GOD's Word. But at the end of that day the clear word will be present. Jesus is the "living water" and that latter "rain" which will mature one's Character of all who "seek for it and receive it." Gross darkness will cover most of mankind as they reject the Word of Truth.
Egypt is a symbol of SIN. The Israelites were brought out of sin. Those surrounding nations were snares to entrap one into contradicting GOD and HIS instructions for righteous living in harmony with GOD and man's fellow Beings.

During the period from the Resurrection to Return of Jesus. Those "who are left"/ those who have not/Are not "against" Jerusalem (the Righteous city) and GOD will keep the feast of tabernacles--- A condition of the heart and mind that they are now living in a different "booth"/tabernacle---that made the temple of the holy Spirit/Christ's Robe of Righteousness.
NO SIN, therefore, NO Sacrifices----other than that of the "Praise of the lips".

 

[Shermana]

Ah, so now we can just symbolize whatever passage we want (while keeping the ones we want literal) to fit our own Theologies.

Do you have a single commentary or site that agrees with this opinion? Heck, even Gotquestions.org of all sites agrees there will be sacrifices in the end days according to the text.

So you agree that you have to completely turn the text into total symbolism and metaphor, do you think that the rest of Zechariah is symbolism and metaphor or only the part that directly contradicts your doctrine when read literally? I agree it's difficult to know what parts are literal and metaphorical, but I challenge you to present a single site that agrees with your view that Zecariah 14 is totally metaphorical.

 

[punkdbass]

Ah, so now we can just symbolize whatever passage we want (while keeping the ones we want literal) to fit our own Theologies.

Ah the definition of Christian fundamentalism.

You can do a quick google of the topic and quickly see that many big Christian websites believe there will be literal sacrifices offered in the future.

 

[Shermana]

Ah the definition of Christian fundamentalism.

You can do a quick google of the topic and quickly see that many big Christian websites believe there will be literal sacrifices offered in the future.

Yep, you can always count on "Christian apologetics" to turn any passage they want into something symbolic that coincidentally fits their Theology. No need for any Jewish midrash or commentary to agree. Because the Christians know better than the Jews on their own writings!

Even Gotquestions.org, one of the sites I can't stand the most, agrees there will be sacrifices.

I've never seen a single commentary that says Zecariah 14 is somehow metaphorical and symbolic.

 

[sincerly]

Ah, so now we can just symbolize whatever passage we want (while keeping the ones we want literal) to fit our own Theologies.

For those who are NOT seeking the truth of the Scriptures--the Bible is all literal without any symbols/metaphors. OR it is all symbolic/myths.

For the Believer, the Holy Spirit gives discernment.

Do you have a single commentary or site that agrees with this opinion? Heck, even Gotquestions.org of all sites agrees there will be sacrifices in the end days according to the text.

Jesus said many would travel the "Broad way" which leads to destruction. Since you reject any comment other than your own conclusions-----any site given would be rejected. TO Believers,Those verses speak for themselves along with other Scriptures speaking of the same principles.

So you agree that you have to completely turn the text into total symbolism and metaphor, do you think that the rest of Zechariah is symbolism and metaphor or only the part that directly contradicts your doctrine when read literally? I agree it's difficult to know what parts are literal and metaphorical, but I challenge you to present a single site that agrees with your view that Zecariah 14 is totally metaphorical.

I showed the message concerning which that passage was speaking . You agreed that it was "difficult"--and you reject the "Light" which was accepted by the Gentiles. It is shown the Messages which were given still reveal the "spiritual darkness" which the Jewish people are covered. Jesus, came to HIS own and was rejected. However, the nations who do believe will be accepted to that joyful occasion.

 

[sincerly]

many big Christian websites believe there will be literal sacrifices offered in the future.

That "broad way" will contain a variety of non-Believers and professed believers.

 

[sincerly]

I agree it's difficult to know what parts are literal and metaphorical, but I challenge you to present a single site that agrees with your view that Zecariah 14 is totally metaphorical.

I've never seen a single commentary that says Zecariah 14 is somehow metaphorical and symbolic.

Neither did I claim ALL/totally Metaphorical/symbolic. But It was prophetic and still future.

 

[Scuba Pete]

For the Believer, the Holy Spirit gives discernment.

Yeppers.

You deny Jesus by NOT following the command of loving others. Those who condemn homosexuals are denying their professed Lord. If you love others, regardless of your professed affiliation, you love Jesus.

I John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. NIV

 

[sincerly]

Yeppers.

You deny Jesus by NOT following the command of loving others. Those who condemn homosexuals are denying their professed Lord. If you love others, regardless of your professed affiliation, you love Jesus.

I John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. NIV

Hi Pete, Loving Jesus means loving those who love Jesus enough to Follow the things which please GOD. GOD hates sin, but loves the sinner enough to give HIS life so that ANY SINNER can obtain eternal life who is willing to die to self and LIVE a life as HE described. The Repenting of/turning away from ALL activities which GOD condemns.

Yes, All mankind is loved by GOD as above,but the only ones who are "brothers and sisters IN CHRIST" are the ones who have Repented and submitted to GOD'S Will.
Those who "love the sins of the world" and continue therein----neither love GOD nor the "brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus Christ."----They are "Denying Jesus".

 

[Shermana]

Neither did I claim ALL/totally Metaphorical/symbolic. But It was prophetic and still future.

Right, only the part that goes against your belief is the purely Metaphorical part. How convenient.

I assume you are unable to find a commentary that backs your view? When even Gotquestions.org is agreeing with me on this, that's speaking volumes. Where's your source?

 

[Shermana]

That "broad way" will contain a variety of non-Believers and professed believers.

And of course, your view is not among the "broad way", but if you believe Zechariah 14 literally is talking about future end-age sacrifices and not metaphorical as you claim, it's part of the broad way. Great logic.

 

[sincerly]

Right, only the part that goes against your belief is the purely Metaphorical part. How convenient.

I assume you are unable to find a commentary that backs your view? When even Gotquestions.org is agreeing with me on this, that's speaking volumes. Where's your source?

You have been looking at it -----Zacheriah 14.(book)

 

[Shermana]

]For those who are NOT seeking the truth of the Scriptures--the Bible is all literal without any symbols/metaphors. OR it is all symbolic/myths.

And of course, the parts that match your belief are obviously the metaphorical part, so Zechariah 13 is literal and maybe even 14 except for the Sacrifice part.

For the Believer, the Holy Spirit gives discernment.

And I assume you have this discernment but I don't? I'll give you this warning: Be VERY careful when you resort to claiming the Holy Spirit as your defense, I would personally recommend you avoid using the Holy Spirit as a way of saying "I'm right and you're wrong". Otherwise, if you think I'm the one without discernment, try actually praying and asking if I'm wrong instead of risking never being forgiven all because you had to use the "Holy Spirit" defense to sate your ego's need to be right when you are confronted with a countering view. I understand you think that all you have to do is share your opinion and then suddenly the other person will simply agree with you or you can tell him he's a false believer and has no discernment, but if you think that's the method Jesus intended to get people to believe, you're so off base it's not even funny.

I say with great confidence that you do NOT have the Spirit guiding you, and I will in fact risk never being forgiven to say that. So if you want to risk it all so that you can say you're right, go for it. If you disagree, we can make a Spiritual Bet: We each ask providence to cause the one who is more wrong than the other to lose everything they have and for the other to inherit it. Want to make the bet? If not, you ain't that confident in the Spirit giving you discernment. So make the bet if you're going to stoop to this level.

Jesus said many would travel the "Broad way" which leads to destruction. Since you reject any comment other than your own conclusions-----any site given would be rejected. TO Believers,Those verses speak for themselves along with other Scriptures speaking of the same principles.

Let me get this straight, because I reject your personal opinion, that means I'm not a believer and I'm on the broad road.

You could just at least TRY to give a site that agrees with your conclusion, or you could try to be remotely honest and honorably concede that you can't find any. So please, by all means, show a single site that agrees with your commentary or do the honorable thing and admit that this is your own unique view that no one else shares.

And of course, you're not rejecting anything that goes against your own view.

May you be shown directly how in error you are.

I showed the message concerning which that passage was speaking . You agreed that it was "difficult"--and you reject the "Light" which was accepted by the Gentiles. It is shown the Messages which were given still reveal the "spiritual darkness" which the Jewish people are covered. Jesus, came to HIS own and was rejected. However, the nations who do believe will be accepted to that joyful occasion

Ah, so now I reject the "light" because you said so? So because I reject your opinion, I reject the light?

The only thing you are a "believer" in is your own doctrine. If you think I'm wrong, I DARE you to pray and ask which of us is right. Tell me what happens.

 

[sincerly]

And of course, your view is not among the "broad way", but if you believe Zechariah 14 literally is talking about future end-age sacrifices and not metaphorical as you claim, it's part of the broad way. Great logic.

I see sacrifice, but not animal---GOD has never been pleased with Animal sacrifices----HE prefers that of Praise. In the New Heavens and Earth--- Praise is what will be offered continually and forever.

 

[Shermana]

You have been looking at it -----Zacheriah 14.(book)

Thanks for proving your sheer intellectual dishonesty, you could at least admit that you cannot find a single commentary that actually backs your view about the one part in Zechariah that proves you wrong to be metaphorical.

Now read what I said about that bet. If you really want to prove how confident you are in your discernment, make that bet, since you don't want to actually try to even show that anyone else on the whole internetz shares your view since you think "I won't accept it". Who cares if I accept it? Just show that you're not the only one peddling this garbage.

 

[Shermana]

I see sacrifice, but not animal---GOD has never been pleased with Animal sacrifices----HE prefers that of Praise. In the New Hewavens and Earth--- Praise is what will be offered continually and forever.

Ah, so every other time it says "Sacrifice" it doesn't need to say "Animal" or show the context of it but this one time it needs to say "Animal". Wow.

You're well aware that it says "Sacrifice" without referencing to animals many times right?

And I suppose you think the part where it says "It made a pleasing odor" to be a lie?

Maybe you're just interpreting the text out of context? Quite common to say G-d isn't pleased by sacrifices without actually addressing the entire passage where it refers to them being done without a true heart.

Do you seriously expect anyone to take you seriously?

 

[Bob Dixon]

Ah, so every other time it says "Sacrifice" it doesn't need to say "Animal" or show the context of it but this one time it needs to say "Animal". Wow.

You're well aware that it says "Sacrifice" without referencing to animals many times right?

And I suppose you think the part where it says "It made a pleasing odor" to be a lie?

Maybe you're just interpreting the text out of context? Quite common to say G-d isn't pleased by sacrifices without actually addressing the entire passage where it refers to them being done without a true heart.

Do you seriously expect anyone to take you seriously?

Dude, the sacrifices of our lips make a pleasant enough odor.

 

[sincerly]

Thanks for proving your sheer intellectual dishonesty, you could at least admit that you cannot find a single commentary that actually backs your view about the one part in Zechariah that proves you wrong to be metaphorical.

Now read what I said about that bet. If you really want to prove how confident you are in your discernment, make that bet, since you don't want to actually try to even show that anyone else on the whole internetz shares your view since you think "I won't accept it". Who cares if I accept it? Just show that you're not the only one peddling this garbage.

Hi Shermana, Jesus answered you in John 5:45-47, "Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? "

Your bet falls into the same principle---Whether one denies the Prophet or Jesus.
There are no more sacrifices for sins after that one of Jesus on the cross.

 

[Bob Dixon]

Hi Shermana, Jesus answered you in John 5:45-47, "Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? "

Your bet falls into the same principle---Whether one denies the Prophet or Jesus.
There are no more sacrifices for sins after that one of Jesus on the cross.

Oh, the irony! Oh, oh, oh!