What does Satan have to do with satanism?

[jasonwill2]

Thanks for the link, I will read it when I get home form work.

I get that satanism is not one religion. But is sounds like you still think the other religions deserve the lavel satanistic.

And erm...

It sounds to me like you are used to arguing with christians
Do you automatically assume that people who do not label them selves satanists are christian?

In a sense, yes I do not think it is up to me to decide who is and isn't a Satanist. It's just not my place.

Also I don't automatically assume anyone's faith, I just was making a point on how "sin" is a natural and healthy part of life, which illustrates how Satan is actually the right way to go. The problem is that some people think this means going totally into murder, theft, and mayhem. It couldn't be any further from the truth; it is about the healthy expression of our natural desires, which can only happen we we admit we are "sinful" creatures by nature, and that it is nothing to be ashamed of or to "fix". What does need fixed though is how we act in certain situations as with our failings, and in that regard Satan, as an Accuser, helps us through that process of overcoming our failings to become stronger and better people. This also means we are more capable of enjoying life.

That is how I see it anyway.

Also don't let the LaVeyan bother you, he is acting SO stereotypical of LaVeyans with this whole "lazy" thing. It is much easier to ask some Satanists than it is to find the several books that all give their own twist on it and then try to sort it out after several months of research and reading. It actually makes sense to do it that way. We have no authoritative teachings or dogmas, so to actually "go read a book" on it would turn into "reading several books" on it.

Lunakilo,
According to the dictionary, Satanism is the worship of Satan. It seems that satanism is also the worship of evil, being contrasted with God.
In several religions the concept of two opposing forces are existent, One that created all Good things, the other that created all evil things. Some people do not like God's ways so the only other choice is to worship Satan.
An interesting belief that seems very likely is Pansatanism; which means that the personality or the spirit of the world, Zeitguist, manifests the Personality of, the god of this system of things, who the Bible points out is Satan the Devil, 2Cor 4:3,4, Rev 12:9, 1John 5:19. Jesus even said the same thing, John 12:31, 14:30,16:11.

You are an ignorant person. I think I'll refrain from reporting your post so it hangs around a little longer as an example to contrast that which was actually said in this topic. Perhaps you should spend more time listening to people of other faiths before spouting your bigotry.

 

[lullylucifer]

The world around us, is built off the belief we have.

All men are qualified to belief and say what they will, but when the final test comes around all eyes will look forward.

look forward what？ No one is the god. when the final test comes,we should believe ourselfs.

 

[Orias]

Where did I say anything about God?

When the final test comes, all eyes will look forward.

 

[lunakilo]

1) Most Satanists are probably never going to agree on what Satan is, it's not in our nature to agree on something as personal or fundamental as that. Though I gave am objective link before to some views on it:

Who and what is Satan? Various Satanist reinterpretations

Reading this link started me thinking something else...

When I first asked "what does satan have do satanism" jasonwill2 asked me "What do YOU mean by Satan", and I can see my question is quite stupid since I suppose agreeing on what/who Satan is will probably never happen. I guess that when I think Satan I think of the christian Satan or a person derived from the christian Satan at least.

When I read the link above It occured to me that the writer of that text seem to be comparing everything to the christaian Satan or to what christians think/believe.

So I was just wondering if you guys think of yourself as NOT-christians?
Or is there some other reason why so many people refer to christianity?

Nice link by the way

 

[jasonwill2]

Reading this link started me thinking something else...

When I first asked "what does satan have do satanism" jasonwill2 asked me "What do YOU mean by Satan", and I can see my question is quite stupid since I suppose agreeing on what/who Satan is will probably never happen. I guess that when I think Satan I think of the christian Satan or a person derived from the christian Satan at least.

When I read the link above It occured to me that the writer of that text seem to be comparing everything to the christaian Satan or to what christians think/believe.

So I was just wondering if you guys think of yourself as NOT-christians?
Or is there some other reason why so many people refer to christianity?

Nice link by the way

I don't think any Satanists think of themselves as Christian. The link was comparing how the idea of Satan relates to Christianity, and how basically we re-use the concept. And at that, the reason Diane Vera was comparing various ideas of Satan to the Christian Satan was to contrast them from the Christian idea.

Think of it as how Christianity uses Jewish scriptures in a totally different way than intended. Christianity isn't Jewish though, but it re-uses some of their ideas.

I personally use a hybrid of the Christian and Jewish models of Satan, then reinterpret them:

"So Satan tests for god, eh?"

"So we are "sinners" since birth, and Satan is the source of sin, eh?"

"Say, aren't we made in god's image? Is a fallen Universe even physically possible [no]? Maybe Satan is god, we are made in his image, and he's a testing god that want's us to overcome ourselves."

While that was not my reasoning for coming to where I am now per se, it essentially comes to the same conclusion none-the-less.

 

[Orias]

and I can see my question is quite stupid since I suppose agreeing on what/who Satan is will probably never happen.

I disagree with both parts of this.

I guess that when I think Satan I think of the christian Satan or a person derived from the christian Satan at least.

That is completely understandable, its almost like knowing where the Big Mac comes from.

Though there have always been variations before hand, this one just..."caught on" for some reason.

When I read the link above It occured to me that the writer of that text seem to be comparing everything to the christaian Satan or to what christians think/believe.

Thats because Satanism exists for the most part, in opposition to Christian doctrine.

So I was just wondering if you guys think of yourself as NOT-christians?
Or is there some other reason why so many people refer to christianity?

I don't think of myself as Christian because I clearly do make the cut, but I think I can identify with the idea of Christianity because of how I view Jesus and compare the Christian religion with all of the religions before it.

Like I've mentioned in the other thread I compared Baldr from the Norse mythos to Jesus.

Many refer to Christianity because it is the predominate religion of the world, so it makes it the easiest target. Especially when considering the number of different and quarreling sects that consider themselves "Christian".

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Satanism is like a box of lego. Give a box of lego to a retard and you might end up with some misshapen thing that falls apart when you examine it too closely.

It is upon each of us to assemble it, and the coherency and value of what is produced is but a reflection of the individual behind it. Is Satan meaningful to Satanism? Depends who you talk to.

 

[Orias]

And it depends on how hard you try.

Satanism without Satan isn't Satanism.

 

[illykitty]

...hopefully it will help people understand the church of Satan and Satanism a little bit better -
Episode 52 – In hour 2 we speak with Magus Peter H. Gilmore the High Priest of the Church of Satan | Strange Frequencies Radio

That was really worth listening. I really liked what he said, sounded great! Perhaps I need to look more into this. Only thing is I'm a panentheist, although perhaps agnostic leaning theist. (panenagnostheist???) :thud:

 

[jasonwill2]

That was really worth listening. I really liked what he said, sounded great! Perhaps I need to look more into this. Only thing is I'm a panentheist, although perhaps agnostic leaning theist. (panenagnostheist???) :thud:

The Church of Satan won't accept any kind of theists, and these are Gilmore's words on theism:

PG: My real feeling is that anybody who believes in supernatural entities on some level is insane. Whether they believe in The Devil or God, they are abdicating reason. If they really believe they are in communication with some sort of interventionist deity…you know, somebody can be a deist and think that maybe there was some sort of force that launched everything and now has nothing to do with it. That’s not anything you can prove. It’s also not a matter of faith. It’s a matter of making a choice between whether there was something or there wasn’t. I think maybe that is the most rational decision. I think science makes it look otherwise, but I don’t think somebody like that is mad. But anybody who believes in some kind of existence in deity or spirits or anything that intervenes in their life is not somebody I hold in any kind of esteem.

source: Satanism: An interview with Church of Satan High Priest Peter Gilmore - Wikinews, the free news source

You should also be aware of how dogmatic the LaVeyan leadership tends to be, as well as bigoted towards other faiths. The founder, Anton LaVey, barely, if at all, understood the religions he mocked, and I'm not even talking about Christianity. As far as LaVeyans themselves, the one's I've knowingly met online range from okay to dogmatic.