What does Socialism Add to the Economy?

[Nakosis]

Tell that to the millions of people in the U.S. who don't have any healthcare insurance or insurance that's inadequate.

I agree, we definitely need to revise our current system of healthcare, health finance etc... in our capitalist economy.

And yes, socialism would provide an alternate so universal healthcare wouldn't be needed. How adequate that would be?

 

[Nakosis]

When the finance minister in Sweden how they accomplish an impressive economic recovery in the 1990's, his two-word response was "Raise taxes". If one understands macro-economics, this can very much make sense.

Doesn't look like it was sustainable.

In recent years, the Swedish welfare state model has been weakened. Massive privatizations have been carried out since the 1990s, including in public services such as health and education. Inequality has risen sharply, in particular because of a tax system that does not tax wealth and inheritance.
Economy of Sweden - Wikipedia

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

... Numerous policies were developed by capitalism to stave off any need for socialism, like welfare, social security, community hospitals, government funded research etc... None of this would have been needed if we instead adopted a socialist economy.

...

What is capitalism? To me those programs are not covered by the understanding I have of capitalism. So what is capitalism? And what is socialism?

 

[Estro Felino]

I agree, we definitely need to revise our current system of healthcare, health finance etc... in our capitalist economy.

In my vision private healthcare is the symptom of a cynical and materialistic society.
And I am terrified this poison can invade Europe as well.

And yes, socialism would provide an alternate so universal healthcare wouldn't be needed. How adequate that would be?

It's a matter of life and death.
It cannot be commodified.

 

[Nakosis]

In my vision private healthcare is the symptom of a cynical and materialistic society.
And I am terrified this poison can invade Europe as well.

It's a matter of life and death.
It cannot be commodified.

Well, we'll see. Give capitalism a chance to work on this.
It's not terrible but certainly could be improved.
We have free clinics, state hospitals will provide emergency treatment regardless of income status.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, we'll see. Give capitalism a chance to work on this.
It's not terrible but certainly could be improved.
We have free clinics, state hospitals will provide emergency treatment regardless of income status.

Yes sure
...emergency treatment after a car accident and then they have the guts to give you the bill for the ambulance and the energency room.
And they can sleep at night.

 

[Nakosis]

What is capitalism? To me those programs are not covered by the understanding I have of capitalism. So what is capitalism? And what is socialism?

Capitalism allows private ownership of capital, wealth, money, funds, goods, assets, property and so on.

Socialism requires a social ownership of capital. So your wealth/money/funds, assess to goods, assets property gets determine by the community or usually defaults to some government body.

What most Western countries use however is democratic capitalism. Which promotes a free market however allows some regulation and welfare policies to support the capitalist economy.

 

[Nakosis]

Yes sure
...emergency treatment after a car accident and then they have the guts to give you the bill for the ambulance and the energency room.
And they can sleep at night.

Like I said, something I agree we need to work on.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Capitalism allows private ownership of capital, wealth, money, funds, goods, assets, property and so on.

Socialism requires a social ownership of capital. So your wealth/money/funds, assess to goods, assets property gets determine by the community or usually defaults to some government body.

What most Western countries use however is democratic capitalism. Which promotes a free market however allows some regulation and welfare policies to support the capitalist economy.

I have a different understanding of the concepts involved.

 

[Estro Felino]

Doesn't look like it was sustainable.

In recent years, the Swedish welfare state model has been weakened. Massive privatizations have been carried out since the 1990s, including in public services such as health and education. Inequality has risen sharply, in particular because of a tax system that does not tax wealth and inheritance.
Economy of Sweden - Wikipedia

The POISON coming from the USA.
Privatizations.

 

[England my lionheart]

?

Errrrm errrm,I’ll try to come up with something later.

 

[Kfox]

Yes sure
...emergency treatment after a car accident and then they have the guts to give you the bill for the ambulance and the energency room.
And they can sleep at night.

Who do you feel should pay for those services if not the person who used those services?

 

[Kfox]

?

Socialism doesn't contribute, it only takes and distributes at it's discretion

 

[Nakosis]

The POISON coming from the USA.
Privatizations.

Yes, no doubt a covert team of capitalists who's only mission is to screw the Swede.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Free economic enterprise is a guaranteed right.

But it cannot be a free economic enterprise that creates social inequality.

It needs rules.

I'ld say that you can't have one without the other.
In a free economic enterprise, you are going to have people who are successful and people who aren't.
You are also going to have people, the majority in fact, who aren't going to engage in this "free economic enterprise" and who are simply going to do a 9-to-5 job.
Some of those jobs will involve high value skillsets which will pay well and others are going to involve low value skillsets which won't pay well.

No amount of "rules" can change that.

Those rules are called socialism.
So capitalism is just the basis. Socialism is the rules that regulate it.

Sure, but again, that is not going to change the reality of being successful vs not being successful and having high value skillsets vs low value skillsets.

Otherwise it becomes like in the jungle,...the law of the fittest or jungle law.
We are not apes any more.

We are still apes off course. And sorry to break it to you, but an equivalent of natural selection is very much present in the "free economic enterprise".

Those companies that can quickly adapt to changing circumstances will survive and those that can't are going to go bankrupt.
Who still remembers the good ol' video store? Basically a library for movies on video cassettes. My small village of 15k people used to have 3 of those in the 80s and 90s. Then the DVD and the internet came out. Extra movie channels on TV came out one after the other. Eventually video-on-demand. And gone they were.

One of the stores lasted longer then the others. He was a bit smarter. He expanded into renting game consoles and games. But then those went digital as well.
Those are small scale companies off course, but they illustrate the point well.

The world doesn't stand still and disruption happens in any sector sooner or later. Companies to fail to adapt to these changes, will disappear.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Who do you feel should pay for those services if not the person who used those services?

Over here, everybody pays for it through taxes. Just like everybody pays for the use of roads, fire department, police force,...

Over the course of their lives, everybody will sooner or later end up at a doctor, specialist, hospital... or use the roads or call the fire department or need help of the police. Some more then others.

On average, european countries with universal health care spend LESS money per capita on health then a country like the US. And the people requiring treatment aren't going bankrupt because of it, nor are they required to pay hefty premiums for a private health insurance which has economic incentive to try and find ways to NOT pay your bills.

 

[metis]

Doesn't look like it was sustainable.

In recent years, the Swedish welfare state model has been weakened. Massive privatizations have been carried out since the 1990s, including in public services such as health and education. Inequality has risen sharply, in particular because of a tax system that does not tax wealth and inheritance.
Economy of Sweden - Wikipedia

No economy is sustainable as all of them need to be tweaked now and then.

 

[metis]

Socialism doesn't contribute, it only takes and distributes at it's discretion

False as production of goods and services are utilized by both, thus the only real question deals with efficiency and priorities.

 

[Kfox]

Over here, everybody pays for it through taxes. Just like everybody pays for the use of roads, fire department, police force,...

If you didn't have a system in place where the tax payers pay your hospital bills, who do you think should pay for it?

On average, european countries with universal health care spend LESS money per capita on health then a country like the US. And the people requiring treatment aren't going bankrupt because of it, nor are they required to pay hefty premiums for a private health insurance which has economic incentive to try and find ways to NOT pay your bills.

Problem with universal health care in a country like the USA is we have 10 million illegal immigrants crossing the border who aren't paying into the pot, but will be taking from the pot when they get hurt. IMO we would have to fix our border problems before even thinking about Universal Healthcare. Problem is there are a lot of people in positions of power who don't want it fixed.

 

[Kfox]

False as production of goods and services are utilized by both,

Both what?

thus the only real question deals with efficiency and priorities.

No; the real question is what do these socialist leaders do to add to the economy.,